Ned's dilemma concerning Jon and Catelyn when he became Hand?

[The Snowman]

So my real question is where would/could Jon Snow have gone when Ned became Hand of the King and was leaving for King's Landing? Take out the the thought of Jon wanting to join the Night's Watch, where could he have gone?

- The Last Hearth

- White Harbour

- Greywater Watch

- Torrhen's Square

- Bear Island

- Karhold

- Storm's End

- Starfall

- Runestone (Royce)

- Northern Mountain Clans

- Deepwood Motte

[Dr. Pepper]

He could have gone just about anywhere, from the mysterious lands of Asshai to the decks of an Iron Islands ship. Jon wasn't lacking in options. Bastards are sort of freer in a way because they aren't tied down to a duty of birth.

[The Snowman]

fair point. I think it would have been cool to see him go to greywater watch

[Winterfellian]

While technically he could have gone anywhere I don't think this is something Ned necessarily wanted for him. When he first took him he might have arrange for fostering elsewhere and save himself and Cat lots of bad feelings about Jon but still he kept him close. The only reason the Watch was a good choice it was because aside for being so far away it effectively cut off Jon from his past in WF and the rest of Westeros.

Given this, I don't think Jon had many options unless he decided to take another road for himself. However it is very evident that Jon was very keen on proving himself and the Night Watch is one of the few places in Westeros where a bastard can rise high based on merits.

[Buried Treasure]

I think Ned could have arranged for Jon to be fostered at most of those northern houses, given enough time. Maybe not with the northern clans or the crannogmen because although they are loyal to Winterfell they have their own customs and would not have been able to continue Jon's training as a northern equivalent to a knight.

Problem was, when they were making the decision of what to do with Jon Ned expected to be going south in a fortnight. That doesn't leave much time for making such arrangements.

[Antonius Pius]

Yeah, what Buried Treasure said.

[Danelle]

So my real question is where would/could Jon Snow have gone when Ned became Hand of the King and was leaving for King's Landing? Take out the the thought of Jon wanting to join the Night's Watch, where could he have gone?

- The Last Hearth

- White Harbour

- Greywater Watch

- Torrhen's Square

- Bear Island

- Karhold

- Storm's End

- Starfall

- Runestone (Royce)

- Northern Mountain Clans

- Deepwood Motte

How about Jon becoming Howland's squire/ward? Bear Island is a good possibility, the Mormonts would be a perfect substitute for a family. I would also like Jon to meet Barbrey. He has the Stark look after all and to a certain extent he is more like Brandon than Ned. And would meet Ramsay and hopefully kill him. And then there is always the Eyrie. Ned had fun while he was fostered there.

[The Snowman]

I think Ned could have arranged for Jon to be fostered at most of those northern houses, given enough time. Maybe not with the northern clans or the crannogmen because although they are loyal to Winterfell they have their own customs and would not have been able to continue Jon's training as a northern equivalent to a knight.

Problem was, when they were making the decision of what to do with Jon Ned expected to be going south in a fortnight. That doesn't leave much time for making such arrangements.

That's why I thought of White Harbour since its kinda on the way and the Manderly's are incredibly loyal. Jon could become a knight if he so chose and you can only continue to rise from there. Although the Wildings would've taken the Wall if he hadn't infiltrated them and would likely have died at the RW anyway,

[ab aeterno]

He could within reason have sent Jon just about anywhere IMO. He could probably even have asked Stannis or Renly if they'd have him at their castles, considering that they're old friends and less likely to see it as an insult, but somewhere in the North would probably have been a better option. Castle Cerwyn almost seems like a good option but you have the issue of it being potentially too close to WF for Catelyn. Bear Island would seem like the best option in the north IMO. Though I also think it wouldn't be particularly unreasonable to expect Cat to just let him stay at WF...

[Cruella]

I frankly don't see why he couldn't have had taken him to KL. Is Jon such a pussy he cannot take few nasty comments? Well, he dealt with them in NW, too, only the insults were coming from convicted rapists and the like, instead of highborn people. Most wouldn't want to harm their relationship with King's Hand, a second most powerful person in the kingdom, so I don't see many people who aren't Lannister lakeys bothering Jon much, and he needs to have thicker skin, as entire Westeros is exactly as prejudiced.

Frey's bastards hang out with other nobles, no problem, but not Jon? One of them was knighted. Aurane Waters became a member of Small Council, and that's under Cersei! (Not the most unprejudiced person in the world). But poor Jon cannot take what AW did? (but he *can* freeze on the wall among criminals who make fun of his ancestory as well).

That anyone bought Ned's reasoning here surprises me greatly, I think GRRM just wanted Jon at the Wall, however, it doesn't jive very well with what we see of Westeros later - I think he had a story plotted fairly well but the world became more fleshed out as it went and some bits didn't exactly fit. Likewise, what's the point of "Warden of the South" bit?

[Stormcloak]

I always thought he could've left Jon in Winterfell. I mean Robb was lord while Ned was away and Robb would've wanted him around. Failing that I think Greywater Watch would've been the best place for him (because Howland would know R+L=J) or if not then Last Hearth.

I always thought letting Jon take the black so young and not knowing what he was giving up (I'm assuming R+L=J) was probably the most dishonourable thing Ned ever did, although at the same time I know why he did it because Jon's claim was a threat to Robert and could've meant war for so many people.

Since Jon infiltrated the wildlings and saved Castle Black it's a good thing he went there anyways.

[Dr. Pepper]

I frankly don't see why he couldn't have had taken him to KL. Is Jon such a pussy he cannot take few nasty comments? Well, he dealt with them in NW, too, only the insults were coming from convicted rapists and the like, instead of highborn people. Most wouldn't want to harm their relationship with King's Hand, a second most powerful person in the kingdom, so I don't see many people who aren't Lannister lakeys bothering Jon much, and he needs to have thicker skin, as entire Westeros is exactly as prejudiced.

I think the point here is that he didn't want Jon anywhere near Robert, considering who Jon's parents were. Ned could have reasonably kept the secret safe and hidden but there's always a chance of it being discovered. Better to have Jon as far away as possible just in case.

I think GRRM just wanted Jon at the Wall, ...Likewise, what's the point of "Warden of the South" bit?

That too.

And what does Warden of the South have to do with it?

[Scipio Africanus]

I frankly don't see why he couldn't have had taken him to KL.

King Bob Baratheon, that's why.

You know the same dude who screamed at everyone that Dany should die and quickly, just because she's a remaining Targ.

[Iwasfrozen]

Likewise, what's the point of "Warden of the South" bit?

To protect against dornish raids before they were brought into the kingdom.

[Victarions Secret]

If Ned had traveled south a bit later, I could have imagined he would have taken Jon into his household guard. Smart move if he wanted to keep him close. Yet still, he would have given Jon possibilities to advance in society.

[Buried Treasure]

I always thought he could've left Jon in Winterfell. I mean Robb was lord while Ned was away and Robb would've wanted him around. Failing that I think Greywater Watch would've been the best place for him (because Howland would know R+L=J) or if not then Last Hearth.

I always thought letting Jon take the black so young and not knowing what he was giving up (I'm assuming R+L=J) was probably the most dishonourable thing Ned ever did, although at the same time I know why he did it because Jon's claim was a threat to Robert and could've meant war for so many people.

Since Jon infiltrated the wildlings and saved Castle Black it's a good thing he went there anyways.

Robb was going to be the Stark in Winterfell but he was still considered a child at this time (not yet allowed to wear a sword) and Catelyn was going to be the head of the household. So it was her say on who was welcomed into the household, unless directly overruled by Ned. Even in Westeros 15 year-olds are boys not men and Catelyn would probably have continued to rule the household for at least 2 or 3 years until Robb was considered an adult. Except Cat absented herself, first through grief for Bran then physically, and when Robb called an army he effectively declared his own childhood over early.

[Real Heir of Bear Island]

I could see him squiring for a knight for a bit until he earned his own kinghthood. Ned would definatley have the friends to make it happen. He could have trained hard, perhaps entered some tournaments. Sware his sord to this or that house, maybe even join Ned's guard as was suggested above or the city watch. Perhaps he could have risen as high as commander of the city guard or chosen for the kingsguard, assuming King Robert stayed alive, and never found out his identity (assuming R+L=J).

[Zupoleon]

I don't think Robert would've even realized Jon was in Kings Landing; after all, whoring and drinking is a full time job. However, I absolutely believe Varys would definitely notice. Varys' job is to be inquisitive, and not only that, I think he would see a little bit of Rhaegar in Jon. It would only be a matter of time before he pieced everything together...

[ab aeterno]

Maybe we're being too king to Ned. It is possible that he didn't want his reputation damaged by reminding everyone that "he" has a bastard. As people have said, bringing a bastard to KL doesn't seem that uncommon, but Ned not only refuses to bring Jon to KL, he also refuses to let Jon sit with the rest of his family at the feast at WF. Not saying that that is Ned's reason, but I think it should be considered.

[Dacie]

Maybe we're being too king to Ned. It is possible that he didn't want his reputation damaged by reminding everyone that "he" has a bastard. As people have said, bringing a bastard to KL doesn't seem that uncommon, but Ned not only refuses to bring Jon to KL, he also refuses to let Jon sit with the rest of his family at the feast at WF. Not saying that that is Ned's reason, but I think it should be considered.

I don't think so. I think it was more what Zupoleon said above. Having Jon around wouldn't really damage his reputation so much as it would make people ask questions. It probably wouldn't take long for someone like Varys to put together the puzzle pieces.