Rickon, the Black Wolf.

[The Roaring Bear]

The term shaggydog story means a story with no satisfying conclusion. As in Rickon's arc will be a shaggydog story.

Ah, I had never heard that before, thank you. I was wondering why I so often heard people say "Like his wolf's name suggests".

Hmmm I'll have to think about this.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Perhaps this helps. http://tvtropes.org/.../ShaggyDogStory

It explains this trope in a very detailed way and you can find at the end of the page examples in anime/manga, comedy, comic books, literature, films, poetry etc. I also found an explanation on Wikipedia:

The commonly believed archetype of the shaggy dog story is a story that concerns a shaggy dog. The story builds up, repeatedly emphasizing how shaggy the dog is. At the climax of the story, someone in the story reacts with, "That dog's not so shaggy." The expectations of the audience that have been built up by the presentation of the story, that the story will end with a punchline, are thus disappointed

Since GRRM tends to twist typical archetypes I think he intends to show just how much shaggy the wolf Rickon truly is, though I hope he is subtle about it and NOT put Rickon like a barbaric kid.

[protar]

Yeah for all those stating that shaggydog is going to have some sort of foreshadowing only due to name, I don't really think you are getting the essence of GRRM' s writing. He's a troll, and people who take him literal will continue to be trolled.

Well I could just as well say that if you believe that Rickon will have a role to play, you'll be trolled. It could be used ironically, I just have a feeling that it won't be.

Why take Rickon to Skagos which has the most fierce men of the north, and forget about him? Has GRRM really failed to tie a loose end on ANYONE?? I think not. I agree it may come in some sort of epilogue, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

I agree something will happen with Skagos but it doesn't have to involve Rickon. He could just be a plot device to get Davos there.

For those saying that timing will not allow him to grow up......we have a WHOLE session of Winter to go through people. It was team years summer, do you think that it means it will be s six month winter?? No. Not at all.

What makes you think we'll see winter's end by the end of the series. I'd say that we'll leave off the books with everyone dreaming of spring. ;)

[OberynBlackfyre]

Well I could just as well say that if you believe that Rickon will have a role to play, you'll be trolled. It could be used ironically, I just have a feeling that it won't be.

I agree something will happen with Skagos but it doesn't have to involve Rickon. He could just be a plot device to get Davos there.

What makes you think we'll see winter's end by the end of the series. I'd say that we'll leave off the books with everyone dreaming of spring. ;)

haha I don't think I will be trolled only because the last thing that GRRM trolled me with was the death of Ned. after that, I knew all bets were completely off. Plus Rickon' story is one of too great importance not to tap into. The Starks have been getting the shit kicked out of them every other book. However, I think their revenge will be obvious, as you have Arya learning how to become a great assassin in Braavos, Bran becoming A greenseer north of the wall, Sansa potentially getting control of the Vale and Harrenhall, Jon on the wall and possibly AA, but who would retake and strengthen the North if not Rickon??? The Black Wolf arises, I say

[protar]

haha I don't think I will be trolled only because the last thing that GRRM trolled me with was the death of Ned. after that, I knew all bets were completely off. Plus Rickon' story is one of too great importance not to tap into. The Starks have been getting the shit kicked out of them every other book. However, I think their revenge will be obvious, as you have Arya learning how to become a great assassin in Braavos, Bran becoming A greenseer north of the wall, Sansa potentially getting control of the Vale and Harrenhall, Jon on the wall and possibly AA, but who would retake and strengthen the North if not Rickon??? The Black Wolf arises, I say

I think Sansa will be the girl to do that actually.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

I think Sansa will be the girl to do that actually.

It is the common believe around here that it will be either Sansa ore Rickon taking the north.

[OberynBlackfyre]

I think Sansa will be the girl to do that actually.

that seems ill fitted for sansa, only because even when she lived in the North, before all of this, she hated it. I think she is going to gain control of the Vale through Littlefinger, and since the Vale is pretty much untouched and their army hasn't even seen battle yet, she wiill reunify the Riverlands and destroy the South while Rickon is the hammer in the North. BOOM Starks coming at you from all sides,

Especially; How ironic would it be that the queen in the prophecy of Cersei's death would be none other than Sansa herself!!

Wait, which leads me to think of something else. Sansa and Aegon. BOO YAH

[Queen Sansa Stark]

that seems ill fitted for sansa, only because even when she lived in the North, before all of this, she hated it. I think she is going to gain control of the Vale through Littlefinger, and since the Vale is pretty much untouched and their army hasn't even seen battle yet, she wiill reunify the Riverlands and destroy the South while Rickon is the hammer in the North. BOOM Starks coming at you from all sides,

Especially; How ironic would it be that the queen in the prophecy of Cersei's death would be none other than Sansa herself!!

Wait, which leads me to think of something else. Sansa and Aegon. BOO YAH

Sansa didn't hate the north she simple preferred the south over it. Would you prefer to live in the North Pole instead of, for example, Croatia? However Sansa does get disillusioned by the south and it's superficial splendor and craving for the north and Winterfell. Her building that snow replica of Winterfell proves just how much.

Further then that I agree with you. I don't think that Sansa being in the Vale, a kingdom that has been untouched by the war and very much remember the days that Ned Stark grew up there, is a coincidence.

[WinterWarrior]

Yes, I think Sansa is all Tully and just a little Stark. I see her in the Vale and Riverlands. And I do think she and Aegon would make a good match....unless he turns out to be a fraud. Sansa would be an excellent Queen.

I think Rickon will be the Stark at Winterfell by the end of the story (if it ever ends....), Bran will replace Bloodraven and live his life in that cave and through the trees....and Jon is Azor Ahai whose story somehow intersects with Danys and both are destined to die heros. Arya? Who knows.

But one never really knows with GRRM. Only he knows how it will all turn out.

[protar]

that seems ill fitted for sansa, only because even when she lived in the North, before all of this, she hated it. I think she is going to gain control of the Vale through Littlefinger, and since the Vale is pretty much untouched and their army hasn't even seen battle yet, she wiill reunify the Riverlands and destroy the South while Rickon is the hammer in the North. BOOM Starks coming at you from all sides,

Especially; How ironic would it be that the queen in the prophecy of Cersei's death would be none other than Sansa herself!!

Wait, which leads me to think of something else. Sansa and Aegon. BOO YAH

Well I think that Sansa will be uniting the North, Vale and Riverlands. She'll act as the political manipulator and Jon will be more military leader.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Yes, I think Sansa is all Tully and just a little Stark. I see her in the Vale and Riverlands. And I do think she and Aegon would make a good match....unless he turns out to be a fraud. Sansa would be an excellent Queen.

I think Rickon will be the Stark at Winterfell by the end of the story (if it ever ends....), Bran will replace Bloodraven and live his life in that cave and through the trees....and Jon is Azor Ahai whose story somehow intersects with Danys and both are destined to die heros. Arya? Who knows.

But one never really knows with GRRM. Only he knows how it will all turn out.

*sighs* Sansa is, like all her siblings (excluding Jon) are, 50 % Tully and 50 % Stark. Though Sansa may have been blessed to inherit diplomatic tactics from Catelyn and most political savy from her siblings (which was in her favor during her time in King's Landing), she is very much a child of the north and *stark-like. In fact she is the kid who is the most like Ned. Nor do I think it is an coincidence that Sansa was out of her siblings most removed, in spirit, from the north, but gradually turning to the side more: praying at the godswood, despising the Lannisters, craving to return to Winterfell, building that snow castle. I fully expect Sansa to make a full circle.

*I wish that people would stop saying that Sansa is nothing like Stark-like, incapable of warging etc. newsflash people the houses of westeros are not the houses of harry potter not every house member of a certain house have all the same character traits. Sansa is just as strong as her siblings, just as intelligent as her siblings, and very much capable of warging like her siblings. There is something called individuality you know.

[OberynBlackfyre]

Sansa didn't hate the north she simple preferred the south over it. Would you prefer to live in the North Pole instead of, for example, Croatia? However Sansa does get disillusioned by the south and it's superficial splendor and craving for the north and Winterfell. Her building that snow replica of Winterfell proves just how much.

Further then that I agree with you. I don't think that Sansa being in the Vale, a kingdom that has been untouched by the war and very much remember the days that Ned Stark grew up there, is a coincidence.

Yeah, Im not stating that Sansa hates the North now, only that even in the end I think she would prefer the courts of the south than being in the north.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Yeah, Im not stating that Sansa hates the North now, only that even in the end I think she would prefer the courts of the south than being in the north.

After everything that has happened? I personally do not think so, however we will see in TWOW if her desire to return to home is still strong even though her childhood in Winterfell is dead.

And we are derailing in this thread. We are suppose to discuss about Rickon. Have people read the link I gave about the Shaggydog story? The names of the direwolves are important and significant to their storylines: death of Lady represents that Sansa's ideals are dead and her first taste of monsters, that she won't be the typical lady ore even possible cease to be lady (this would be a bittersweet ending for Sansa), Nymeria, I am guessing if there is one stark who will leave Winterfell then it is probably Arya. Queen Nymeria did leave her home and to never return again (Also a bittersweet ending for Arya), As for Summer I guess that Bran will take a big part on defeating the others and bring summer once again back to Westeros, Ghost many people have speculated that Jon will share body with Ghost. So lets discuss about what the Shaggydog story call tell us about Rickon.

[Winter's Daughter]

All Hail Rickon Stark, The Black Wolf, King of the North!

Harsh, but fair. Well respected and slightly feared.

:thumbsup:

Never heard of a "shaggydog story" before. Shaggy's name always seemed to me like what a four-year-old would call a pet who was big and hairy. I had zero suspicions. Will be interesting to see if GRRM plays off this.

[Blindsie]

This thread reminds me how sorry I feel for Rickton. Unfortunately he hasn't learnt anything about how to be a ruler from his father and will have a lot of issues around trust. If he does come to be the Lord of Winterfell it will be a difficult post for him.

Something positive though would be that he is likely to be quite sympathetic to the Wildlings, as I imagine he is quite close to Osha now. So the wildlings might have a place south of the wall.

[K.C.]

This thread reminds me how sorry I feel for Rickton. Unfortunately he hasn't learnt anything about how to be a ruler from his father and will have a lot of issues around trust. If he does come to be the Lord of Winterfell it will be a difficult post for him.

Something positive though would be that he is likely to be quite sympathetic to the Wildlings, as I imagine he is quite close to Osha now. So the wildlings might have a place south of the wall.

This, pretty much. If he does turn into a psycho or whatever predictions people are making, I'd have a hard time blaming him for it. :(

[KhalFrodo]

Rickon the Unlikely, The Black Wolf, Avenger of Winterfell, King in the North....

Honestly I don't think we will get to see any significant part of Rickon's rule. He will be as people said, a rallying point for the Northern Lords still loyal to the Starks.

[PrinceHenryris]

A(having trouble thinking of what Grey Wind could mean if i'm honest.).

I have a feeling that Grey Wind is pretty obvious. He's grey. The sigil of House Stark is a grey Direwolf on a white field. House Stark's words are, "Winter is Coming". What comes with Winter - wind. So Grey Wind is pretty obvious for the heir to Winterfell.

[PrinceHenryris]

You think Rickon is useless? Really? He's a legitimate male heir to the Starks. A male heir grows up. He feels obligated to avenge his father's death, his brother's death, to right the wrongs done to his family. He represents a potential threat, someone who can become a dangerous enemy. Why else does Jaime Lannister make sure that Robb didn't sire an heir on Jeyne? Why did Tywin wipe out House Reyne and House Tarbeck completely? Why did Robert fear Daenerys? Robb's death set the stage for Rickon to be of great significance to the North. And I think the OP theory is spot on to where Rickon's character is heading. Westeros is in store for a long Winter and Rickon has plenty of time to thrive and grow before he takes lead of the North.

As long as Shaggy's around Rickon is dangerous. Has anyone watched an American five-year-old play video games recently? Well instead of controlling Mario on a TV screen Rickon controls one of (if not) the most dangerous dangerous creature in Westeros South of the Wall.

I also have the theory that while Rickon might not have the ability to become a Greenseer, he might end up with the strongest bond with his Direwolfe. I remember it being far easier to teach a four-year-old to swim than a teenager. Rickon might have bonded with Shaggy at such a young age that they basically share one "mind".

[Carter209]

SOB, i just deleted my long form, so here's my shorter version.

Rickon is going to be defined later in life by 4 things:

1. Skagos

2. Who his regent is

3. What he remembers

4. Shaggydog

1 is important because it will give the wildlings a Lord of Winterfell who truly understands wildling customs and will accept them as men, not monsters.( Especially if Jon is already their King, they'll look at Starks in a much better light if the Bastard of Winterfell was their king and half-brother to Rickon). 2 and 3 are important because whomever his regent/who's ward he is(I believe Sansa with Jon as castellan of Winterfell), they will have to teach him to be a lord and, most importantly, set some ground rules for him. If he remembers everything, he'll want to make the South bleed from Moat Cailin to Dorne, which means he needs people who will look at his best interests(i.e. family) . And 4 is important because he has the largest and fiercest direwolf BY FAR. If something were to happen to Shaggy, such as Ramsey's bitches getting the better of him, then Rickon will be more pissed than he already is.

Just my 2 cents.