Jon Targaryen

[Dornish Whine]

The question of John's bastard status may be moot once we've seen the contents of Robb's will. Of course he would be John Stark and not Targaryan. Now whether he would ever be legitimized as Rheagar's son is the real question. I think we would be depending on testimony from Howland Reed, or perhaps the truth of it is in the crypts - maybe a letter in Rheagar's hand legitimizing him, who knows...? But there are ways of a bastard becoming... well not a bastard anymore in Westeros.

[Ponzo]

True, as i said in another post once, they want rhaegar to be his father? a guy with no honor? who accepts the destruction of his house and murder of his wife and children? for what? a prophecy? you want a guy like that to be Jons father? Jon who looked up to Neds honor? Dont get me started on the relationship between Jon and Arya, that would change to, since he would not be her brother. (And you dont want my opinion on people who want to see Jon and Arya as a couple here on the forums)

and if this post sounds angry, im not angry or mad, just shocked how many people would go for such a cheesy love story, reminds me of todays brony culture.

[TyrionsFlagon]

He'd still be Arya's cousin. So I don't think the relationship would be hurt. Going from half brother to cousin wouldn't be too drastic and change how they act.

I haven't heard of people wanting Jon and Arya ending up together, but if it's true then those people have some nasty issues they need taken care of.

I don't think that I would like to see Jon be made a legitimate Targaryen. I thinks it's lame if he becomes Jon Stark just because Robb said so. Or if Dany becomes queen, finds out that R+L=J, and legitimizes him; that would be lame too.

Ever since Tyrion said, "All dwarfs are bastards in their fathers eyes," has really helped me see what both Jon and Tyrion's attitudes need to be like, and I've loved them for it.

[J. Stargaryen]

True, as i said in another post once, they want rhaegar to be his father? a guy with no honor? who accepts the destruction of his house and murder of his wife and children? for what? a prophecy? you want a guy like that to be Jons father? Jon who looked up to Neds honor? Dont get me started on the relationship between Jon and Arya, that would change to, since he would not be her brother. (And you dont want my opinion on people who want to see Jon and Arya as a couple here on the forums)

and if this post sounds angry, im not angry or mad, just shocked how many people would go for such a cheesy love story, reminds me of todays brony culture.

I'm starting to think that the next big twist from GRRM is that King Robert faked his death and is posting on Westeros.org under the name Ponzo. :P

Jokes aside, you're entitled to your opinion of Rhaegar, but give the guy a break for what you call 'accepting the destruction of his house and murder of his family'; he was already dead when those things happened.

[Lucamore the Lusty]

Rhaegar was also a bit of a knob to just protect Lyanna and Jon with three Kingsguard members, arguably the best ones and leave Elia and her two children with just Jaime, who Aerys wouldn't let out of his site. Surely you'd send them away as well, to Dorne perhaps, where they could have been safe...

The King wouldn't let Elia and the children leave. It was his insurance policy to keep Prince Doran loyal.

As for the number of Kingsguard, when Rheagar took the Tower Three with him, there were still four more in KL. Areys didn't seem to know where they were, so when Rheagar returned without them, Areys couldn't send ravens to order their return. ToJ is like a cabin with no phone line or cell phone service.

As for Lyanna at the ToJ, I'd assume Rheagar wasn't advertising that they were there. Secrecy and three KG should have been enough. So someone squealed.

[Ponzo]

So? His actions lead to all of it.

[Dragonfish]

So? His actions lead to all of it.

That doesn't mean he's someone who "accepts the destruction of his house and murder of his wife and children", as you put it.

Also, while his actions certainly sparked a series of events that led to some horrible outcomes, the same could be said of pretty much every other fundamentally decent character in the story, like Ned or Robb.

[ab aeterno]

So? His actions lead to all of it.

Ned's actions with Cersei lead to the deaths of his wife and son, thousands of soldiers, northern lords, Renly, Tywin, Oberyn, etc.

Edit: Apologies Dragonfish. Got in before me.

[Ponzo]

But Neds intentions were honorable, he did not kidnap someone because of a prophecy. Do you get what i mean? He gave Cersei and her children the chance that Elia and her children never had. Sure, Ned sucked at the game and that lead to destruction, but he held to his principles.

And im not a Robert Baratheon fan either, so i will not defend his actions.

[ab aeterno]

But Neds intentions were honorable, he did not kidnap someone because of a prophecy. Do you get what i mean? He gave Cersei and her children the chance that Elia and her children never had. Sure, Ned sucked at the game and that lead to destruction, but he held to his principles.

And im not a Robert Baratheon fan either, so i will not defend his actions.

If Rhaegar believed that running off with Lyanna would save the world from an existential threat, weren't his intentions honorable too?

[Dragonfish]

But Neds intentions were honorable, he did not kidnap someone because of a prophecy.

On the contrary, it is very likely that Rhaegar and Lyanna ran off together.

[J. Stargaryen]

Rhaegar was also a bit of a knob to just protect Lyanna and Jon with three Kingsguard members, arguably the best ones and leave Elia and her two children with just Jaime, who Aerys wouldn't let out of his site. Surely you'd send them away as well, to Dorne perhaps, where they could have been safe...

You realize that Jaime wasn't the only person guarding the Red Keep, right? The Gold Cloaks, for example. They were still there. The Red Keep was much more heavily fortified than the ToJ, with its three KG and the recently pregnant, dying chick.

You're trying soo hard for it to be true and it hurts. This is such a stretch; to randomly start doing another culture's traditions just so you can bang some chick. Really? If this is true, Rhaegar was an idiot and we should refer to him as Florian.

R+L=J is a pretty certain thing, but making him legitimate this way is a stretch. Was polygamy also a ritual of the First Men?

The effort required to make these connections minimal, I assure you.

It's not random since Lyanna has the blood of the first men and worships the Old Gods. Maybe a northern style wedding was the tradeoff for polygamy. Maybe a northern style ceremony created the sort of loophole that you seem to require of this theory. Here you go: Rhaegar and Elia were married by the Faith, and swore their vows to the New Gods. Rhaegar and Lyanna were married in front of a weirwood, and swore their vows to the Old Gods. No contradiction.

[rejndjer]

i think that this theory is becoming so popular, that martin might change the whole story on purpose just to screw with the fans, and do an "unpredictable" story.

[The Wolves]

True, as i said in another post once, they want rhaegar to be his father? a guy with no honor? who accepts the destruction of his house and murder of his wife and children? for what? a prophecy? you want a guy like that to be Jons father? Jon who looked up to Neds honor? Dont get me started on the relationship between Jon and Arya, that would change to, since he would not be her brother. (And you dont want my opinion on people who want to see Jon and Arya as a couple here on the forums)

and if this post sounds angry, im not angry or mad, just shocked how many people would go for such a cheesy love story, reminds me of todays brony culture.

I don't get the idea that if R+L=J than it minimizes his relationship with the other Starks. NED raised Jon as his son and Jon knows NED as his father. Jon has said himself when Mormont gave him Longclaw that Eddard Stark will ALWAYS be his father and even if Rhaegar did happen to be his biological father it won't change what NED was in Jon's life, which was Jon's father. And I think it'll take another lifetime and life for Jon to consider himself anything but a brother to his Stark siblings. I don't get why people will suddenly think Jon will forget WHO raised him, WHERE he was raised, and WHO he was raised with. If R+L=J I think it won't matter much to Jon except who his mother is. NED will ALWAYS be Jon's father no matter what that is something I'm like 100*1 billion percent sure about in this series.

[J. Stargaryen]

i think that this theory is becoming so popular, that martin might change the whole story on purpose just to screw with the fans, and do an "unpredictable" story.

Welcome to the forums. George has already promised that he will not do this. He likened it to lying to the readers, IIRC.

[Lord Varys]

I'm not sure if this whole Lyanna-Rhaegar-thing would be all that interesting if Jon was just Rhaegar's bastard. GRRM would not have to reveal the truth if that was the case, since there would have been no political relevance to the whole thing. No one would declare for him, no one can declare for him, just as no one will declare for Gendry, Mya Stone, or Edric Storm. They have no claims.

Since GRRM has said that this whole thing is going to be revealed, I'd expect it will not be only a private revelation for Jon, but will have major political repercussions...