The Wise Man's Fear IX [Spoilers & Speculation]

[Nisheeth]

But is that related to the knowing of names? (I honestly don't remember.) I thought it was more of a general diploma. There are aspects of the Arcanum that have nothing to do with naming. For example, Chronicler has his guilder, and he only knows the name of iron - hardly a mastery of the art. Fela can do just as well, and she doesn't have her guilder.

Chronicles doesn't have a Guilder. when the bandit touched the locket, he didn't feel cold.

May well have been covered already, i have read these threads on and off but dont remember them comprehensively!

Re-reading WMF at the moment, and came across the scene where K is exhausted and doesnt realise he is speaking Ademic, I dont have the book with me but it is something like: "I thought back over what i had just said "..... sceopas""

What he was saying was "I am not speaking...."

Now I am sure there is a character named Sceop, or mention of someone named Sceop, but I cannot remember where he was mentioned, or in what context, so I cannot remember if it is significant that his name is the Ademic word for Speak.

Anyone with a better memory help me out?

I think that Sceop was the character in Kvothe's story which he told to Will and Sim when they were coming back from Imre in WMF.

The beggar who went to the camps Adem, Vintish, an Amyr Ciridae, and finally the Edema Ruh, where he was welcomed.

Not exactly sure, but this is what I recall.

[russjass]

I think that Sceop was the character in Kvothe's story which he told to Will and Sim when they were coming back from Imre in WMF.

The beggar who went to the camps Adem, Vintish, an Amyr Ciridae, and finally the Edema Ruh, where he was welcomed.

Not exactly sure, but this is what I recall.

That sounds very familiar, you are likely right.

[Tears of Lys]

I just Googled "Sceop" to see if I could find exactly where he was referenced and pulled up this:

Sceop: An Anglo-Saxon singer or musician who would perform in a mead hall. Cf. Bard. (A-S, 'shaper,' also spelled scop)

Very interesting....

[Nisheeth]

I just Googled "Sceop" to see if I could find exactly where he was referenced and pulled up this:

Sceop: An Anglo-Saxon singer or musician who would perform in a mead hall. Cf. Bard. (A-S, 'shaper,' also spelled scop)

Very interesting....

Thats a good catch!

And just checked. He was the beggar from the story WMF: chapter 37, A Piece of Fire.

[jumbles]

I like. But I must confess that I don't know what "A-S, 'shaper'" means.

[Loslathdos]

But is that related to the knowing of names? (I honestly don't remember.) I thought it was more of a general diploma. There are aspects of the Arcanum that have nothing to do with naming. For example, Chronicler has his guilder, and he only knows the name of iron - hardly a mastery of the art. Fela can do just as well, and she doesn't have her guilder.

While Chroniclers didn't have a guilder, ( I believe it was a proof of mastery over iron) I think you're right. Afterall they talked about studying under Master Arwl , 6 terms El'ir, 8 Re'lar, 10 thilsers (whatever it's called) so you could get a guilder without naming anything, and the way they talk about it, a lot of arcanists probably don't have a name to their name ;)

[two_by_two]

I just Googled "Sceop" to see if I could find exactly where he was referenced and pulled up this:

Sceop: An Anglo-Saxon singer or musician who would perform in a mead hall. Cf. Bard. (A-S, 'shaper,' also spelled scop)

Very interesting....

Thistle has brought up before that Sceop is also Skarpi (the storyteller from the inn in Tarbean), and that they are all Aleph (and also possibly Bredon).

[Tears of Lys]

And, of course, Manet. ;)

[erikpfeiffer15]

Has the potentiality that the University is/was the one city that was not destroyed been discussed in this forum yet?

[Nisheeth]

Has the potentiality that the University is/was the one city that was not destroyed been discussed in this forum yet?

I am sure it has been.

[thistlepong]

Has the potentiality that the University is/was the one city that was not destroyed been discussed in this forum yet?

Most folks assume that Tinue is Tinusa from the story, but there's no hard evidence either way. When Kvothe addresses the letter to Ambrose at the end of WMF, it's to Belenay-Baren, suggesting Belen from the story. The existence of the underthing tends to support that. Again, though, there's no reason to believe it is or is not the surviving city,

The trouble with any assertion is that we're missing 3000 years of history and that there's no suggestion of a beacon of civilization surviving from the Betrayal to present.

[Nisheeth]

Most folks assume that Tinue is Tinusa from the story, but there's no hard evidence either way. When Kvothe addresses the letter to Ambrose at the end of WMF, it's to Belenay-Baren, suggesting Belen from the story. The existence of the underthing tends to support that. Again, though, there's no reason to believe it is or is not the surviving city,

The trouble with any assertion is that we're missing 3000 years of history and that there's no suggestion of a beacon of civilization surviving from the Betrayal to present.

When it is said that one city survived, it doesn't have survive till the present. It might be that it just survived the war. The history might have been lost in what ever lead to the abandonment of the underthing, or it might be kept hidden by the Masters. Or it might not be the surviving city after all.

[thistlepong]

When it is said that one city survived, it doesn't have survive till the present. It might be that it just survived the war. The history might have been lost in what ever lead to the abandonment of the underthing, or it might be kept hidden by the Masters. Or it might not be the surviving city after all.

Yah, that's the trouble with saying yes and summarizing. Everybody's got a nuance to explore again. So maybe we can turn the discussion in a productive direction.

We can ask why we're looking for the surviving city. Are we looking as cleaver readers, putting puzzle pieces together? If so, the weird old crap and the similarity between Belenay and Belen provide some support for Belen surviving and the University being atop its ruins. Are we trying to reconcile a surviving city with what we know of Four Corners history? In that case, the Underthing is a wrecked sewer with abyssal rifts. The University is a new structure built withing the last thousand years and a shadow of Caluptena in terms of learning and enlightened thought. It's archaeology no one cared about. Are we looking for clues and throughlines from the old stories to the present? That one's a little more interesting. I haven't seen anything too convincing one way or the other. Bradd's theories were probably the most fun, but I'm eager to hear more substantiated ideas.

The caveat, "it doesn't have to survive until the present," is certainly true, but it's essentially meaningless, and it makes the question kind of irrelevant

[russjass]

Most folks assume that Tinue is Tinusa from the story, but there's no hard evidence either way. When Kvothe addresses the letter to Ambrose at the end of WMF, it's to Belenay-Baren, suggesting Belen from the story. The existence of the underthing tends to support that. Again, though, there's no reason to believe it is or is not the surviving city,

Another line of evidence for the university being in the ruins of the one surviving city is that it is at one end of the Great Stone Road

[erikpfeiffer15]

We can ask why we're looking for the surviving city.

Good point. It's interesting I think, not because I necessarily care about the historical perspective, but because if the surviving city is under the University, it means people in the present day (i.e., the Masters) are likely implicated in keeping some secrets, and I'm curious about who actively knows what, who may be keeping knowledge from Kvothe, and whether their reasons for doing so are beneficial to Kvothe or they are purposely trying to hinder him.

There's also the passage about the bridge between the University and Imre:

"It was one of those ancient massive pieces of architecture scattered throughout the world, so old and solidly built that they have become part of the landscape, not a soul wondering who built them or why. This one was particularly impressive, over 200 feet long, and wide enough for two wagons to pass each other..."

The fact that the Underthing is implied to be old, but not destroyed, and the same for the bridge, could suggest the Underthing was part of the surviving city. Meaning the city would likely have elected some sort of committee or created some area to preserve or maintain their knowledge, as it would be the last surviving account of the truth. And maybe they used Amyr to guard this knowledge, bringing us back to 'how much do the masters at the university actually know. Could Lorren be an Amyr? ;) Could any of the Masters be more than just teachers? And I'm not sure if I'm joking about that or not.

[Loslathdos]

Good point. It's interesting I think, not because I necessarily care about the historical perspective, but because if the surviving city is under the University, it means people in the present day (i.e., the Masters) are likely implicated in keeping some secrets, and I'm curious about who actively knows what, who may be keeping knowledge from Kvothe, and whether their reasons for doing so are beneficial to Kvothe or they are purposely trying to hinder him.

There's also the passage about the bridge between the University and Imre:

"It was one of those ancient massive pieces of architecture scattered throughout the world, so old and solidly built that they have become part of the landscape, not a soul wondering who built them or why. This one was particularly impressive, over 200 feet long, and wide enough for two wagons to pass each other..."

The fact that the Underthing is implied to be old, but not destroyed, and the same for the bridge, could suggest the Underthing was part of the surviving city. Meaning the city would likely have elected some sort of committee or created some area to preserve or maintain their knowledge, as it would be the last surviving account of the truth. And maybe they used Amyr to guard this knowledge, bringing us back to 'how much do the masters at the university actually know. Could Lorren be an Amyr? ;) Could any of the Masters be more than just teachers? And I'm not sure if I'm joking about that or not.

I believe it is a common theory that Master Lorren is an Amyr as for the others, I don't know if any had the potential...

There were also those old machines in the underthing

[Joel4832]

From Skarpi's 2nd tale we also "know" that fair Geza had a 100 suitors in Belen before the walls fell.

This leads me to believe that Belen was not the surviving city... Though the ruins of Belen could be the ruins the University was built out of.

[jumbles]

Okay, I came up with the idea that Tehlu means "moon lock." I don't think it's been brought up here before. I looked in other places and saw that it has been discussed on the tor.com rereads though, and the people over there were more thorough than I was so I'll link their stuff and say that other possible meanings they came up with were, "first lock(er)," "locked first," "locker," "unlocker," and "lockless."

The end of Jo's post (just before the comments), gbrell's comment, Jhirrad's comment, and Jezdynamite's comment in the Linguistics thread.

[thistlepong]

Okay, I came up with the idea that Tehlu means "moon lock." I don't think it's been brought up here before. I looked in other places and saw that it has been discussed on the tor.com rereads though, and the people over there were more thorough than I was so I'll link their stuff and say that other possible meanings they came up with were, "first lock(er)," "locked first," "locker," "unlocker," and "lockless."

The end of Jo's post (just before the comments), gbrell's comment, Jhirrad's comment, and Jezdynamite's comment in the Linguistics thread.

I'm a fan of "one lock." In the timeline thread, the Danish translator wrote, "The first seven days are numbers - day nr 7 is Chaen, hence Chandrian," making Lu almost certainly 1.

[Calibandar]

Not sure if anyone else can recall seeing this, and obviously somewhat off topic, but this Spanish book trailer for Name of the Wind is still the best book trailer I have ever seen: