TYRION IS AERYS' SON

[Quiet Isle]

Im sorry, i really hate Lannisters are Targs theories. Cuz it just doesnt make sense to me. :(

well you can't dismiss it because the clues are there. Aerys really dug Joanna. he really did. Just because you hate it, doesn't make it something that didn't happen. tywin was gone a lot, doing what Aerys wanted. i don't think cersei and jaime are targs. but i do believe Tyrion is.

[Quiet Isle]

well this is no insult to you because you can certainly choose what you choose to believe. but you can't dismiss the possibility because the clues are there. Aerys really dug Joanna. he really did. Just because you hate it, doesn't make it something that didn't happen. tywin was gone a lot, doing what Aerys wanted. i don't think cersei and jaime are targs. but i do believe Tyrion is. and aerys blocked everything tywin wanted to do - he refused to marry cersei to rhaegar. then he made jaime kingsguard which divested him of ever having a family or lands, and then the Hand, divesting tywin of his role because tywin was too powerful.

tywin was left with tyrion. i bet that made aerys lean back and roar with laughter. tywin left then. took the whole shebang and went home.

[Lion of Judah]

i still hold to tyrion not being tywin's son. but dig this: Where Barristan tells Dany of Aerys taking liberties on Joanna and Tywin's wedding night, then trails off because he doesn't want Dany to know what his father was really like... You can't say it doesn't make some sense!!

Its not as far fetched as some theories that I have heard, but why would Aerys hold a grudge against Tywin if he was bedding Tywin's wife? Why would he be so bitter? Insult and reject Tywins marriage proposal, steal his heir, all seems like a lot of hate for a guy that was your hand. I think Areys wanted Joanna and when he couldn't have her he found ways to get petty revenge. Now that makes sense.

[Titus Andronicus]

For the people arguing that Tyrion is Tywin's son because of what Jaime's Aunt told him, Tywin once commented that Joffrey was Robert's son (in the sense that he acted like Robert), and we all know for a fact that he was definitely NOT Robert's son. What Tywin's Sister told Jaime is not evidence that Tyrion came from the loins of Tywin, it just means that Tyrion has much more in common with his Father than Jaime did.

[Hyperion94]

OK, so according to this site... everyone is a secret targeryen. Tyrion, Jon, Jaime Cersei. For all I know I AM A SECRET TARGARYEN!

[Quiet Isle]

Its not as far fetched as some theories that I have heard, but why would Aerys hold a grudge against Tywin if he was bedding Tywin's wife? Why would he be so bitter? Insult and reject Tywins marriage proposal, steal his heir, all seems like a lot of hate for a guy that was your hand. I think Areys wanted Joanna and when he couldn't have her he found ways to get petty revenge. Now that makes sense.

Aerys was pissed off because the populace thought Tywin was running the kingdom. which he probably was as hand of the king. he got mad about it. decided he would fix him. rejected cersei as a match for rhaegar, made jaime KG and hand, and divested him of family and lands. tywin went home. bided his time. held back til the last moment of the rebellion and when he saw robert was going in for the kill came in and supported him. jaime kills aerys (who was at that time, and not long before) batshit insane, and tywin weds cersei to robert.

[OberynBlackfyre]

He is Tywin's son because he take after him so much. It doesn't matter if he is his biological son or not, he inherited his fathers traits.

the point being I think it's much more respectable for Tyrion to be the son of Tywin, simply because he DOES what is needed to be done. He takes risks, and isn't afraid of it. Unlike Cersei, who mostly works in the shadows. Or Jaime who lacks subtlety but also lacks cunning in the beginning as well. Plus GRRM as a writer makes plausible revelations, the fact that Tyrion was born of rape would take a kind of long time to explain and effect his character development in the series, and we have only two books left. He also has absolutely no Targaryen features. So nope. don't see it happening

[imperfek]

wasn't it said that Aery had his way with Lady Lannister on Tywin wedding night ( Lords rights / which was suppose to be banned) so i dont understand how people could say Tyrion is his son... He is the youngest out of Tywins children, which mean Tyrion couldnt have been conceive that night

if any of Tywin children would be consider Aery's child it has to be Jamie and Cersei because their birth would of lived up more correctly

[Quiet Isle]

Its not as far fetched as some theories that I have heard, but why would Aerys hold a grudge against Tywin if he was bedding Tywin's wife? Why would he be so bitter? Insult and reject Tywins marriage proposal, steal his heir, all seems like a lot of hate for a guy that was your hand. I think Areys wanted Joanna and when he couldn't have her he found ways to get petty revenge. Now that makes sense.

One reason that has been floated is that Aerys heard talk the his people said Tywin was really running the kingdom and it angered him.

[Lion of Judah]

One reason that has been floated is that Aerys heard talk the his people said Tywin was really running the kingdom and it angered him.

Yes now I remember that's the reason he ripped out Ilyn Payne's tongue.

[Okonomiyaki3000]

Agree. Tyrion is the third head of the dragon.

[Newstar]

So far, the main negative response to this from fans that I've seen on this thread and others seems to be "It's not possible because I don't like it." You guys do realize "I don't like it" is not an actual counterargument, right? By all means, hate away, but that doesn't make the theory any less plausible.

[Light a wight tonight]

So far, the main negative response to this from fans that I've seen on this thread and others seems to be "It's not possible because I don't like it." You guys do realize "I don't like it" is not an actual counterargument, right? By all means, hate away, but that doesn't make the theory any less plausible.

Ah, but "I love it" likewise doesn't mean that it's true or even likely. If you make an argument that something is a certain way you have to make it convincing enough that people will believe it. It's not someone else's job to be convinced. In this case the "facts" presented are open to interpretation and are pretty tenuous.

[Okonomiyaki3000]

The mothers of Danaerys, Jon, and Tyrion all died giving birth. Does this have any significance?

[Big Daddy Dave]

I would pass this theory by as wishful fanfic, but for a few things:

There is clearly an effort by the writer to establish 3 Targaryens for the end of the series. 3 dragons, three riders, yadda yadda yadda.

I think most posters here buy into R+L=J. Dany being the second. So there will be a third.

If you buy into Aegon being true, then that might be the end of it. But that's putting aside that he's a red herring because he's going to die, or isn't who he says he is.

Tyrion being a Targ DOES work on the level that he would be the third rider. He also doesn't have to be legitimate. He could be the hand of the king again for a Jon/Dany rule.

The downside to that is that it robs him of the great daddy issue story he had going on with Tywin. I'd almost rather Jaime and Cersei end up being Aerys' children, for the simple fact that it'd be more interesting. Imagine how tragic it would be for Tywin to have been murdered by his ONLY child? Wouldn't he have treated Tyrion better in life if he knew for a fact that the twins weren't his? And it makes it even more tragic for Tyrion.

Jaime has a whole lot to answer for, and as much as I like him he probably should die at the end of his story arc. But a case could be made that HE'S the 3rd head of the dragon. Cersei is certain to die anyway, probably after she lives long enough for her last two children to die before her. Also, finding out that Tywin wasn't her father might be enough to push her over the edge and kill herself in a really dramatic way, so she surely won't be in the way at the end. I'm just not in love with the idea of Jon, Dany, and...Jaime being the 3 dragons at the end.

Tyrion works better for that spot, and I could see Jon, Dany and Tyrion teaming up to rebuild the kingdom together. I'm not in love with the idea; I don't want secret Targaryens revealing themselves at every turn, but I DO recognize the need for it to play out to happen.

[Makes No Sansa]

Tyrion has fairer hair than his siblings, and Tywin hates him, he even hates the idea that he wears the proud sigil his lord father wore and his grandfather before him because "I cannot prove you're not mine".

But Jaime and Cersei are older than Tyrion, and they could have been conceived on Tywin and Joanna's wedding night. They would also be the two sides of the Targaryen coin, Jaime being greatness and Cersei madness.

[Quiet Isle]

Tyrion has fairer hair than his siblings, and Tywin hates him, he even hates the idea that he wears the proud sigil his lord father wore and his grandfather before him because "I cannot prove you're not mine".

But Jaime and Cersei are older than Tyrion, and they could have been conceived on Tywin and Joanna's wedding night. They would also be the two sides of the Targaryen coin, Jaime being greatness and Cersei madness.

But it appears that Aerys took some liberties, but not intercourse. But later he could have. And i still believe that the misshapen aspect of Tyrion mimics the dragons that became twisted and imperfect. and of course back to the idea that Jon, Dany and Tyrion killed their mothers being born. and Rhaella was very fragile after the birth of hers. there's something about a Targ birth, especially one where the children seem to have some magic in them or destiny, that renders Non-Targ women fragile in birthing them.

[Arland]

Tyrion is Targ. It is known. In addition to Seastar two eyed thing and his love and dreams of dragons and his pale hair, there are 2 more evidence:

1. during travel on Stinky steward he asks Maqqoro what he seas in the flames. That one answers something along the lines :Dragons, big and small... And you.

2. There are three main protagonists in DWD - , people whose POV doesn't appear at all in AFOC -John, Dany and Tyrion. (also Bran, but he barely has 2 chapters) There is a reason why Martin decided to separate the books in such way and call it a dance with DRAGONS. .

[Quiet Isle]

Tyrion is Targ. It is known. In addition to Seastar two eyed thing and his love and dreams of dragons and his pale hair, there are 2 more evidence:

1. during travel on Stinky steward he asks Maqqoro what he seas in the flames. That one answers something along the lines :Dragons, big and small... And you.

2. There are three main protagonists in DWD - , people whose POV doesn't appear at all in AFOC -John, Dany and Tyrion. (also Bran, but he barely has 2 chapters) There is a reason why Martin decided to separate the books in such way and call it a dance with DRAGONS. .

THAT. see above.

[Adam H]

I'm pretty convinced Tyrion is Aery's biological son, almost as much as I am about Jon. The main arguments against this theory seem to be:

1) Joanna said that Tyrion is more like Tywin than Jaime.

2) Tywin would have killed Tyrion if he knew.

3) The awesome father/son relationship would be ruined.

4) Jaime and Cersei are more likely Aery's children than Tyrion.

My responses:

1) Tyrion is a lot like the man who raised him - big deal! Also, this sends Tywin into a depressed rage, exactly like it would if Tywin knew Tyrion wasn't his real son... IMO Joanna's comment has more meaning if Tyrion is Aery's blood. It also has a lot of meaning regarding Jaime's character development - if Tyrion isn't even Tywin's son, then what does that make Jaime?

2) Tywin probably would suspect that Aerys was Tyrion's father, if it was possible (i.e. if Joanna and Aerys were in the same city when Tyrion was conceived). But he's a complex character, and we know he loved Joanna very much. Maybe Joanna and Tywin had a "Promise me" moment like Lyanna and Ned had.

3) As an adoptive father, this one is ignorant bullshit. They are father/son no matter what.

4) Eh. I put a lot more weight on Tyrion's appearance, the "three headed dragon" thing, and all the foreshadowing in the earlier books, than anything with Jaime and Cersei.