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TYRION IS AERYS' SON


Quiet Isle

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The sack of King's Landing and Elia's (admittedly not a true targ) rape- A Lannister always pays his debts. Tywin told Tyrion (or was it Jaime?) that Gregor didn't have orders to kill Elia, but he never mentions rape...

He told Tyrion, when they received the news of the Red Wedding. And he did mention the rape:

His father shrugged. "I grant you, it was done too brutally. Elia need not have been harmed at all, that was sheer folly. By herself she was nothing."

"Then why did the Mountain kill her?"

"Because I did not tell him to spare her. I doubt I mentioned her at all. I had more pressing concerns. Ned Stark's van was rushing south from the Trident, and I feared it might come to swords between us. And it was in Aerys to murder Jaime, with no more cause than spite. That was the thing I feared most. That, and what Jaime himself might do." He closed a fist. "Nor did I yet grasp what I had in Gregor Clegane, only that he was huge and terrible in battle. The rape … even you will not accuse me of giving that command, I would hope. Ser Amory was almost as bestial with Rhaenys. I asked him afterward why it had required half a hundred thrusts to kill a girl of … two? Three? He said she'd kicked him and would not stop screaming. If Lorch had half the wits the gods gave a turnip, he would have calmed her with a few sweet words and used a soft silk pillow." His mouth twisted in distaste.

There is also a theory that Jaime and Cersei are only half siblings. one is Lannister and one is Targ. it could happen, as they are most certainly not identical twins, but fraternal.

And yet their children are all as golden-haired as possible. I don't buy it. And Tywin was there - and friend or no friend, king or no king, Aerys would not have left Casterly Rock with his head on his shoulders if he had raped Joanna on her wedding night.

I don't buy the Tyrion theory, either, but with GRRM nothing is impossible, so I wouldn't write it off completely.

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He told Tyrion, when they received the news of the Red Wedding. And he did mention the rape:

And yet their children are all as golden-haired as possible. I don't buy it. And Tywin was there - and friend or no friend, king or no king, Aerys would not have left Casterly Rock with his head on his shoulders if he had raped Joanna on her wedding night.

I don't buy the Tyrion theory, either, but with GRRM nothing is impossible, so I wouldn't write it off completely.

:blushing: My bad...

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It doesn't need to be revealed at all. Tyrion could develop affinity with Danny's Dragons and it can go from there.

You know, we've seen that Jon can be burned. We also know dany can be burned - when she rode the dragon, she had blisters and cracked skin. but we've never seen tyrion experience a burn. Jon and Dany are not completely fireproof - and don't talk about mirri md, because she cast a spell to protect herself and it backfired, protecting dany. we know that Dany can stand a lot of heat. but if GRRM shows that Tyrion is SUPERFIREPROOF, We won't need DNA evidence. THAT ALONE would show he was a True Targ.
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He told Tyrion, when they received the news of the Red Wedding. And he did mention the rape:

And yet their children are all as golden-haired as possible. I don't buy it. And Tywin was there - and friend or no friend, king or no king, Aerys would not have left Casterly Rock with his head on his shoulders if he had raped Joanna on her wedding night.

I don't buy the Tyrion theory, either, but with GRRM nothing is impossible, so I wouldn't write it off completely.

I don't think that proves anything. Golden and white hair are not that far apart. one gene could have taken over as dominant. There are darkhead targs too - think Blackfyre line. Hell, think Jon.
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Wouldn't that mean Jamie and Tyrion killed each others fathers? Also that would mean Danny is Tyrion's sister like cersie is Jamie's...... oh boy.

You are absolutely correct. and Jon would be Dany and Tyrion's nephew.
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I find the idea abhorrent. Mainly because I dislike the Targs generally, making an exception for Maester Aemon. GRRM has a proclivity for sticking us with abhorent scenarios, though, so I can't say it won't be proven true.

How the hell many bastards will we find that Aerys has fathered when all the counting is done? Tyrion, Faegon, the Kettleblacks, and Moonboy, for all I know?

Why do you dislike the Targs so much? there appear to have been plenty that were decent. Aerys was or became mad. But Rhaegar has been touted by friends and enemies as being truly brave and honorable.
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... I don't buy it. And Tywin was there - and friend or no friend, king or no king, Aerys would not have left Casterly Rock with his head on his shoulders if he had raped Joanna on her wedding night.

The precise point I was going to make. Tywin is not the sort of man to just let some paranoid schizophrenic take liberties with his wife. I doubt Aerys would even have been able to finish his raping before Tywin brought him the pain.

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The precise point I was going to make. Tywin is not the sort of man to just let some paranoid schizophrenic take liberties with his wife. I doubt Aerys would even have been able to finish his raping before Tywin brought him the pain.

he wouldn't have known. and Joanna would not have told him - it would only have brought their house to their knees. and she couldn't resist a king. and the books made it clear that Aerys had the hots for joanna. Also, Aerys was not always insane. He may not have been when he seduced or took joanna.

Actually he could have gone insane when he discovered that his act with joanna not only resulted in a dwarfen misshapen Tyrion (just like the dwarfen misshapen final dragons), but resulted in the fact that she died birthing a "dragon" (just like Jon and Dany's mothers). That's a lot to deal with.

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Sorry if someone has answered this, but I have seen it come up a few times. Is there really any question on how you would be able to tell if someone (Jon or Tyrion) turned out to be a Targ? I'm pretty sure that only someone with the blood of old Valyria, only a descendant of Aegon and the dragonlords of old, would ever be able to mount a dragon.

Same thing with the Starks and the direwolves. It's pretty easy to prove who is a real stark and who is a real targ.

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he wouldn't have known. and Joanna would not have told him - it would only have brought their house to their knees. and she couldn't resist a king. and the books made it clear that Aerys had the hots for joanna. Also, Aerys was not always insane. He may not have been when he seduced or took joanna.

Actually he could have gone insane when he discovered that his act with joanna not only resulted in a dwarfen misshapen Tyrion (just like the dwarfen misshapen final dragons), but resulted in the fact that she died birthing a "dragon" (just like Jon and Dany's mothers). That's a lot to deal with.

I'm sure that she could resist a king that the entire kingdom abhorred so much so that he was named King Scab. Plus, Joanna and Tywin's relationship seems pretty solid, she probably would have told him and he definitely would've done something about it. Concerning the opinions of others (i.e. other houses and the smallfolk) If there's one thing we've learned, it's that Lannisters can cover up whatever the hell they try to.

Interesting notion about the dwarf child inducing the madness though, although wasn't it his imprisonment before being rescued by Barristan the bold the cause of that? Good point though and one that I'll be considering from now on.

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I'm sure that she could resist a king that the entire kingdom abhorred so much so that he was named King Scab. Plus, Joanna and Tywin's relationship seems pretty solid, she probably would have told him and he definitely would've done something about it. Concerning the opinions of others (i.e. other houses and the smallfolk) If there's one thing we've learned, it's that Lannisters can cover up whatever the hell they try to.

Interesting notion about the dwarf child inducing the madness though, although wasn't it his imprisonment before being rescued by Barristan the bold the cause of that? Good point though and one that I'll be considering from now on.

Appreciate the kudos, but let's go back to the first paragraph you posted. I really don't think he was mad at that time, do you have any proof of that? i don't think there is any. tell me if i am wrong and i'll reassess. but he raised Rhaegar and he was a good man by all accounts. i think aerys lost it later - again, when tyrion was born twisted, and joanna died. see if you can find anything to say he was crazy before then. really, i'd like to consider it. i can't find reference to it.
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Also, Aerys wife stayed with him for many years. never heard anything bad between them, until he started torturing her sexually about the time she got pregnant with dany. she left him that night. she hadn't before that.

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I don't think that proves anything. Golden and white hair are not that far apart. one gene could have taken over as dominant. There are darkhead targs too - think Blackfyre line. Hell, think Jon.

It's funny you should mention that, because Daemon Blackfyre was said to look almost an exact copy of Aegon the Conqueror - and I don't think we have descriptions of his descendants. So, no - they (most probably) had the standard Targaryen hair.

The ones that didn't, were the Targs born of the Dornish marriages - Baelor Breakspear was one and Rhaegar's daughter Rhaenys was another.

ETA: Actually, it turns out we do have a description. From the wiki:

Among the traits passed on to the Blackfyres by the Targaryens were the platinum blond hair, violet eyes and the premonition-like dream ability.

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Appreciate the kudos, but let's go back to the first paragraph you posted. I really don't think he was mad at that time, do you have any proof of that? i don't think there is any. tell me if i am wrong and i'll reassess. but he raised Rhaegar and he was a good man by all accounts. i think aerys lost it later - again, when tyrion was born twisted, and joanna died. see if you can find anything to say he was crazy before then. really, i'd like to consider it. i can't find reference to it.

There definitely isn't any real "madness" before Duskendale as far as I can see. That's roughly where it began by most accounts. Beforehand though, as you said, there really isn't any mention of it.

The fact that he blatantly wanted to get 1 up over Tywin was enough for him to rape Joanna, though, so I return my earlier assumption. There are plenty of reasons for Aerys to forcefully bed Tywin's wife - mostly out of jealousy and a desire to put Tywin in his place.

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Sorry if someone has answered this, but I have seen it come up a few times. Is there really any question on how you would be able to tell if someone (Jon or Tyrion) turned out to be a Targ? I'm pretty sure that only someone with the blood of old Valyria, only a descendant of Aegon and the dragonlords of old, would ever be able to mount a dragon.

Same thing with the Starks and the direwolves. It's pretty easy to prove who is a real stark and who is a real targ.

I tend to disagree with you on this point. The Targs had a hard time controlling the dragons at times. The fire at Summerhall is one example, when they tried to hatch some dragons. I think only some Targs can do it - the ones who have a lot of dragon blood in them genetically. what that is, i have no idea. but hold that thought. Starks - select starks - can warg. and martin said that dragons have about the same intelligence as dogs. i just don't think the Starks have ever had an opportunity to try warging a dragon. But they're about to - when Dany brings them to Jon, who is both Targ and Stark. and i think Tyrion's journey to Dany (forthcoming) will result in him convincing her to go North - Tyrion likes jon. we shall see...
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It's funny you should mention that, because Daemon Blackfyre was said to look almost an exact copy of Aegon the Conqueror - and I don't think we have descriptions of his descendants. So, no - they (most probably) had the standard Targaryen hair.

The ones that didn't, were the Targs born of the Dornish marriages - Baelor Breakspear was one and Rhaegar's daughter Rhaenys was another.

Think jon snow.
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There definitely isn't any real "madness" before Duskendale as far as I can see. That's roughly where it began by most accounts. Beforehand though, as you said, there really isn't any mention of it.

The fact that he blatantly wanted to get 1 up over Tywin was enough for him to rape Joanna, though, so I return my earlier assumption. There are plenty of reasons for Aerys to forcefully bed Tywin's wife - mostly out of jealousy and a desire to put Tywin in his place.

oh i don't deny that at all. he could have. but that's not the point here. what is the point is that he certainly could have bedded her. hence Tyrion.

and thanks for the heads up on no apparent madness before Duskendale.

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