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Men in their cups say...

A + J = T

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But we are also told that Joanna and Princess Martell were good friends and ladies in waiting for Queen Rhaella, so surely they spent time together at King's Landing.

ETA: or Dragonstone

I think that was before she married Tywin and perhaps one of Tywin's reasons to marry her was her friendship with the future queen. Jon Arryn took Lysa to the court but he was an old man who needed to produce an heir as quickly as possible. I don't think Tywin brought Joanna to the court instead of having her raising the twins at Casterly Rock.

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I think that was before she married Tywin and perhaps one of Tywin's reasons to marry her was her friendship with the future queen. Jon Arryn took Lysa to the court but he was an old man who needed to produce an heir as quickly as possible. I don't think Tywin brought Joanna to the court instead of having her raising the twins at Casterly Rock.

The only way your theory works is if Joanna spent her entire life at CR and never interacted with Aerys. This is simply untrue and unfounded based upon the text. They were close. Tyrion is a bastard Targ and Jon is a legitimate Targ heir. This might cause friction/controversy the next time they encounter one another. See GOT and the visit to the Wall's mention of Dragons.

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This is 683rd post on this topic.

and it's still going strong! way better than that R+L=J nonsense and all those ' church of believers' who know nothing about the books except how to discuss one single small minute part of song of ice and fire.

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and it's still going strong! way better than that R+L=J nonsense and all those ' church of believers' who know nothing about the books except how to discuss one single small minute part of song of ice and fire.

'better than that R+L=J nonsense'???? and the people on those threads know nothing about the books? I would have to disagree with you there. Some would say Jon is the 'song of ice and fire' due to his lineage from R+L=J. And while I believe in the Tyrion Waters theory, there is 100 times as much evidence to R+L=J than there is for this one. maybe do some more research.

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'better than that R+L=J nonsense'???? and the people on those threads know nothing about the books? I would have to disagree with you there. Some would say Jon is the 'song of ice and fire' due to his lineage from R+L=J. And while I believe in the Tyrion Waters theory, there is 100 times as much evidence to R+L=J than there is for this one. maybe do some more research.

Maybe you should. R + L =/= J.

The Knight of the Laughing Tree was Sandor Clegane. S+L=J. There is more evidence that proves " this " than what " R+L=J cronies " have been suggesting for years. He is also Balerion the Black Dread Kitten King of the Red Keep and a servant of The Temple of Black and White.

" The Lannisters were an old family, tracing their decent back to Lann the Clever, a trickster from the Age of Heroes who was no doubt as legendary as Bran the Builder, though far more beloved of singers and taletellers. In the songs, Lann was the fellow who winkled the Casterlys out of Casterly Rock with no weapon but his wits, and stole gold from the sun to brighten his curly hair." GOT Eddard 21

" no more real than the ghost of Lann the Clever that some claim haunts Casterly Rock, even so he held his tounge." ADWD Tyrion 8

" Fair-haired, tall, and handsome, the Lannisters are the blood of Andal adventurers who carved out a mighty kingdom in the western hills and valleys. Through the female line they boast of descent from Lann the Clever, the legendary trickster of the Age of Heroes. The gold of Casterly Rock and the Golden Tooth has made them the wealthiest of the Great houses. Their sigil is a golden lion upon a crimson field. The Lannister words are Hear Me Roar!" Appendix House Lannister GOT

" This is Andalos, my friend. The Land your Andals came from. They took it form the hairy men who were here before them, cousins to the hairy men of Ib. The heart of Hugor's ancient realm lies north of us, but we are passing thought its southern marches. Andalos. the Faith taught that the seven themselves had once wallked the hills of Andalos in human form. The father reached his hand into the heavens and pulled down seven stars, Tyrion recited from memory, and one by one he set them on the brow of Hugor of the Hill to make a glowing crown." ADWD Tyrion 2

" What sort of gods make rats and plagues and dwarfs? Another passage from the Seven Pointed Star came back to him. The maid broght him forth a girl as supple as a willow with eyes like deep blue pools, and Hugor declared that he would have her for his bride. So the mother made her fertile, and the Crone fortold that she would bear the king four and fourty might sons. The Warrior gave strength to their arms, whilst the smith wrought for each a suit of iron plates." ADWD Tyrion 2

" If walls could keep us small, peasants would be tiny and kings as large as giants, said Ser Jorah, yet i have seen men born in hovels, and dwarfs who dwelt in castles. Men are men, whitebeard replied. Dragons are Dragons." SOS Dany 8

" Why do you read so much? Tyrion looked up at the sound of the voice. Jon Snow was standing a few feet away, regarding him curiously. He closed the book on a finger and said, Look at me and tell me what you see. The boy looked at him suspiciously. Is this some kind of trick? I see you Tyrion Lannister. Tyrion sighed, You are remarkably polite for a bastard, Snow. What you see is a dwarf." GOT Tyrion 13

" What are you reading about? he asked. Dragons, Tyrion told him. What good is that? There are no more dragons," the boy said with the easy certainty of you. So they say sad isn't it? When i was your age, I used to dream of having a dragon of my own. You did? the boy asked suspiciously. Perhaps he thought Tyrion was making fun of him..." GOT Tyrion 13

" Oh yes. Even a stunted twisted, ugly little boy can look down over the world when he's seated on a dragon's back. I used to start fires in the bowels of Casterly Rock and stare at the flames for hours, pretending they were dragonfire. Sometimes I'd imagine my father burning, at other times my sister." GOT Tyrion 13

" When he was still a lonely child in the depths of Casterly Rock, he oft rode dragons through the nights, pretending he was some lost Targaryen princeling, or Valyrian dragonlord soaring high o'er fields and moutains." ADWD Tyrion 21

" Jon Snow was staring at him, a look equal parts horror and fascination. Tyrion guffawed. Don't look at me that way bastard. I know your secret. You've dreamnt the same kind of dreams.No, Jon Snow said horrified, I wouldn't... No? Never? Tyrion raised an eyebrow..." GOT Tyrion 13

" Alas I am quite dragonless. I suppose I could have dipped Pycelle in wildfire and set him ablaze. Would the Citadel have preferred that?" Tyrion ASOS 12

" Tyrion grinned at him. That's good bastard. Most men would rather deny a hard truth rather than face it. Most men, the boy said, but not you. No, Tyrion admitted. Not me. I seldom dream of dragons anymore. There are no more dragons." GOT Tyrion 13

" One by one the company drifted off to sleep, all but Jon Snow, who had drawn the night's first watch. Tyrion was last to retire as always. As he stepped into the shelter his men had built for him, he paused and looked back at Jon Snow. The boy stood near the fire, his face still and hard, looking deep into the flames. Tyrion Lannister smiled sadly and went to bed." GOT Tyrion 13

" Moqorro remained beside the night fire, as he did every night. The red priest rested by day but kept vigil through the dark hours, to tend to his sacred flames so that the sun might return to them at dawn. Tyrion squatted across from him and warmed his hands against the night's chill. Moqorro took no notice of him for several moments. He was staring into the flickering flames,lost in some vision." ADWD Tyrion 33

" After a time the priest raised his eyes to meet the dwarf's. Hugor Hill, Have you come to pray with me? What do you see in those flames? Dragons, said Moqorro in the common tongue of Westeros." ADWD 33

" Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark, and you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all." ADWD Tyrion 33

" When the magister drifted off to sleep with the wine jar at his elbow, Tyrion crept across the pillows to work it loose from its fleshy prison and pour a cup. He drained it down, and yawned, and filled it once again. If i drink enough fire wine, he told himself, perhaps I will dream of dragons." ADWD Tyrion 5

" More wine please. He held out his cup. As Rykker filled it for him, Bowen Marsh said, You have a great thirst for a small man. Oh, I think that Lord Tyrion is quite a large man, maester Aemon said from the far end of the table. He spoke softly, yet the high officers of the Night's Watch all fell quiet, the better to hear what the ancient had to say. I think he is a giant come among us, here at the end of the world." GOT Tyrion 21

" That night Tyrion Lannister dreamed of a battle that turned the hills of Westeros as red as blood. He was in the midst of it, dealing death with an axe as big as he was, fighting side by side with Barristan the Bold and Bittersteel as dragons wheeled across the sky above them. In the dream he had two heads, both noseless. His father led the enemy, so he slew him once again. Then he killed his brother , Jamie , hacking at his face until it was a red ruin, laughing every time he struck a blow. Only when the fight was finished did he realize that his second head was weeping." ADWD Tyrion 5

" Tyrion answered gently. I've been called many things my lord, but giant is seldom one of them. Nonetheless, Maester Aemon said as his clouded milk white eyes moved to Tyrion's face, I think its true." GOT Tyrion 21

" For once, Tyrion Lannister found himself at a loss for words. He could only bow his head politely and say, You are too kind Maester Aemon. The blind man smiled. He was a tiny thing, wrinled and hairless, shrunken beneath the weight of a hundred years so that his maester's collar with its links of many metals hung loose about his throat. I have been called many things, my lord he said, but kind is seldom one of them. This time Tyrion led the laughter..." GOT Tyrion 21

" He had drunk too much last night. I dreamed about the queen, he said. I was on my knees before her,swearing my alligence, but she mistook me for my brother, Jamie, and fed me to her dragons. Let us hope that dream was not prophetic. You are a clever Imp, just as Varys said." ADWD Tyrion 21

" At long last father? Valyrian steel blades were scarce and costly, yet thousands remained in the world, perhaps two hundred in the Seven Kingdoms alone. It had always irked his father that none had belonged to Housearrow-10x10.png Lannister. The old Kings of the Rock had owned such a weapon, but the greatsword Brightroar had been lost when the second King Tommen carried it back to Valyria on his fool's quest. He had never returned; nor had Uncle Gery, the youngest and most reckless of his father's brothers, who had gone seeking after the lost sword some eight years past." SOS Tyrion 32

" Almost a decade had passed since the Laughing Lion headed out from Lannisport, and Gerion had never returned. The men Lord Tywin sent to seek after him had traced his course as far as Volantis, where half his crew had deserted him and he had bought slaves to replace them. No free man would willingly sign aboard a ship whose captain spoke openly of his intent to sail into the Smoking Sea." ADWD Tyrion 33

" Gerion made japes. Better to mock the game than play and lose." AFFC Jamie 33

" Once, when his uncles asked him what gift he wanted for his nameday, he begged for a dragon. It wouldn't need be a big one. It could be little like i am. His uncles Gerion thought that was the funniest thing he had ever heard, but his uncle Tygett said, The last dragon died a century ago lad. That had seemed so monstorously unfair that the boy had cried himself to sleep that night." ADWD Tyrion 21

" but every little girl needs a big brother to protect her. Tywin was big even when he was little. Who will protect us now? Jamie kissed her cheek. He left a son. Aye he did that is what i fear the most, in truth. That was a queer remark..." AFFC Jamie 33

" Jamie, she said tugging at his ear. Sweetling I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg, and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not where that cloak. but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year. Men are such thundering great fools. Even the sort who come along once in a thousand years." AFFC Jamie 33

" The old Valyrian road glimmered ahead of them like a long silver ribbon winding through wood and dale. For a little while Tyrion Lannister felt almost at peace." ADWD Tyrion 8

" An uncle of mine gave them to me when I was just a boy, said Tyrion. I read them until they fell to pieces. His uncle Gerion liked to set him on the table during feasts and make him recite them. I liked that well enough didn't I? Standing there amongst the trenchers with every eye upon me, proving what a clever little Imp i was." ADWD Tyrion 8

" Sleep had never come easily to Tyrion Lannister. Aboard that ship it seldom came at all, though from time to time he managed to drink sufficient wine to pass out for awhile. At least he did not dream. He had dreamed enough for one small life. And such follies: love, justice,friendship,glory. As well as being tall. It was all beyond his reach, Tyrion knew now. But he did not know where whores go." ADWD Tyrion 2

" Wherever whores go, his father had said. His last words, that's what they were. The crossbow thrummed, Lord Tywin sat down, and Tyrion Lannister found himself waddling through the darkness with Varys at his side. He must have clambered back down the shaft, two hundred and thirty rungs to where orange embers glowed in the mouth of an iron dragon. He remembered none of it. Only the sound the crossbow made, and the stink of his father's bowels opening. Even in his dying, he found a way to shit on me." ADWD Tyrion 2

" So to mark his manhood, Tyrion was given charge of all the drains and cisterns within Casterly Rock. Perhaps he hoped I'd fall into one. But Tywin had been disappointed in that. The drains never drained half so well as when he had charge of them. I need a cup of wine, to wash the taste of Tywin from my mouth, a skin of wine would serve me better." ADWD Tyrion 8

"I have a question too, said Egg. I begin to understand why your father was so willing to be rid of you. What more would you have of me, cousin? Who took the dragon's egg? There were guards at the door, and more guards on the steps, no way anyone could have gotten into Lord Butterwell's bedchamber unobserved. Lord Rivers smiled. Were I to guess, I'd say someone climbed up inside the privy shaft. The privy shaft was too small to climb. For a man. A child could do it. Or a dwarf, Dunk blurted. A thousand eyes, and one. Why shouldn't some of them belong to a troupe of comic dwarfs?" The Mystery Knight Ending

" I killed Shae too, he confessed to Varys. You knew what she was. I did, but I never knew what he was." Varys tittered, And now you do." ADWD Tyrion 2

" How is it a brothel happens to have a secret entrance? The tunnel was dug for another King's Hand, whose honor would not allow him to enter such a house openly. Chataya has closely guarded the knowledge of its existence. And yet you knew of it. Little birds fly through many a dark tunnel. Careful, the steps are steep" COK Tyrion 15

" I had another friend who dreamed of dragons. A dwarf. He told me..." SOS Jon

these are the quotes any good reader of the book picks up on. Also in the Hedge Knight egg has a brother name dareon the drunken who actions are directly comparable to that of Tyrion. He is a targ then so is Tyrion

Add the Purple Wedding/The Lion and The Rose theory/thread to this masterful piece of textual evidence and A+J=T is all but confirmed.

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Maybe you should. R + L =/= J.

The Knight of the Laughing Tree was Sandor Clegane. S+L=J. There is more evidence that proves " this " than what " R+L=J cronies " have been suggesting for years. He is also Balerion the Black Dread Kitten King of the Red Keep and a servant of The Temple of Black and White.

You've lost your mind!

Please tell me you are joking/trolling. If you are not and you are serious about the above statement, please start a thread with the S+L=J theory oh please please.....

I really want to know how Sandor pretended to be Rhaegar while running off with Lyanna.

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Maybe you should. R + L =/= J.

The Knight of the Laughing Tree was Sandor Clegane. S+L=J. There is more evidence that proves " this " than what " R+L=J cronies " have been suggesting for years. He is also Balerion the Black Dread Kitten King of the Red Keep and a servant of The Temple of Black and White.

Add the Purple Wedding/The Lion and The Rose theory/thread to this masterful piece of textual evidence and A+J=T is all but confirmed.

Because a 10/11 year old boy totally would not go unnoticed... I'm sorry, but you must be joking when you're saying that Sandor could have been the Knight of the Laughing Tree. A child that young would totally have been recognized as having been a child..

Also, what textual evidence are you referring to for A+J=T?

And what kind of evidence for the R+L=J do you not find convincing enough? I'm happy to explain the theory to you, if you point out what you feel is missing..

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