Arya's Destiny?

[yolkboy]

Arya GoT I :

"When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers.”

:frown5:

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Why so sure?

I'm trying to think of any other characters the faceless men might send her after but none of the others feel as right. Or do you just not agree with my sent as an apprentice on an important kill idea for her leaving the faceless men? I really can't see them just letting her leave and I can't see her turning on them while she's still in Braavos.

Who is going to hire a Faceless Man to kill Dany? The Westerosi don't believe in the dragons and they probably won't until Dany burns down the Red Keep (oh, imagine dragon fire hitting all that wildfire Cersei has stored away!) The Braavosi may not like dragons because they bring back memories of slavery in Valeria, however, they lived pretty damn close to Targs and their dragons, when the Targs were on Dragonstone and in King's Landing, for hundreds of years without conflict, that we know of. So, knowing that Dany is heading toward Westeros like Aegon and his sisters did, why would they care? The Iron Bank might care because their debt might not get paid if anyone other than Stannis gains the Iron Throne, but I think they could put more pressure on the realm by calling in merchant loans as they have been doing.

In the gift chapter Stannis sends a man to hire sellswords in Braavos. It's my theory that Arya will stowaway on one of the ships carrying the sellswords after hearing news from Westeros. She won't ask for permission to leave, and she'll have to pay the consequences.

My biggest objection to the Arya going to Dany theory is that going toward Essos is going backwards, imo. I suspect that Dany will be heading towards Westeros on Victorion's ships in the fairly near future (by ASOIAF standards), so that all the action will be focused on the west, not the east. (If Dany marries Victorion I'll puke, but the gods know she has lousy taste in men.)

The lone wolf dies - both Arya and Nymeria may die, unless they are reunited? Along with potential meaning of her not being with her family. But, they are all lone wolves at the moment. Who is to say they may not all be united again at some point?

The foreshadowing is so dam ambiguous at times!

[Florina and the Pack Survives beat me to it but I typed it, so I'm posting it.] At the risk of starting an enormous fight, Sansa is the lone wolf, not Arya. Sansa literally left the pack – by which I mean she put her own interests above her family's -- when she went to Cersei and told her Ned's plans. Immediately thereafter all of her friends and companions were taken away and she was imprisoned alone. She has not had any true friends or protectors (yeah, I know, Sandor but she chose not to go with him) since then. Sansa's family disinherited her, not her fault, but it means more isolation. She was taken to the Eyrie where there were no other highborn boys or girls her age and isolated even more by her Aunt and Littlefinger. She may make friends with Randa Royce, but I don't think Randa is trustworthy at all. There's no one to protect her from the danger closest to her – Littlefinger.

Arya, as I said in a previous post, has packs up the wazoo, including Nymeria's very real wolfpack that she runs with at night. So, the Night Wolf, not the Lone Wolf.

Regarding glamours: Didn't the Kindly Man said that a Faceless Man's change, using the masks and blood magic, cannot be detected, unlike glamours?

[evita mgfs]

Arya is the "night wolf", as she calls her own self. She may remember her dad's story, but she thinks of herself as the night wolf, for she leads people to the Shadowlands, or Nightlands, as the emissary of the FM.

Arya has a new pack. and soon I see her pack at the Mummer's Show, an ensemble cast, where she will learn to give a winning performance, and earn a standing O.

She will warg Casso for fun, and practice her skills on other animals, growing stronger and stronger.

When her powers reach Bran's level, or maybe close to for she is not a greenseer, she may be able to draw Nymeria closer to her through the mental telepathy. Just my thoughts. :dunno:

Edit: Arya is like Hermes in Greek myth, and the KOM like Charon, the one who takes the dead across the river Styx, often personified as a skull and bones in a hooded cape. I know. Way crackpot! :bawl:

[Fire Eater]

Two quotes from ADwD Epilogue

Ser Harys Swyft tugged at his chin beard. "I am in need of guards myself. These are perilous times." . . . "Hire the Mountain's men," Ser Kevan suggested. "Red Ronnet will have no further use for them."

"I put no faith in these Myrish bankers," Ser Kevan told his good father. "You had best prepare to go to Braavos."

I think Ser Harys will visit the Iron Bank, and take an escort of guards made up of the Mountain's men, among them Polliver. Arya will recognize Polliver the moment she sees him. That could be what leads to Arya leaving the House of Black and White.

[The Undefeated Gaul]

Yes! I like this very very much ^^^

[lorrd pytyr peristalsis]

Whatever I may say on Arya may appear eulogistic, for she is my favorite character. So be warned. :ack:

Arya mastered blindness at a record speed, and even named her abuser - which prompts her return of sight. The Kindly Old Man tells her a woman gives life, not take it, so the order does not usually take women. It doesn't take long for that to change for she is given her first assignment and completes it. She never meets another FM/woman among the weirdo glamored people she serves when the moon is black, either. Just the Waif, who also has powers, but who has not yet changed her face, unless we count Arya saying that she reminded her of a girl she used to know named Wease. (And that's another story and thesis.)

Arya wields a knife like a street thug on the make pickpocketing; she has skills as a water dancer; she has learned to speak many languages: and she has learned the art of caring for the dead with respect and humility; she also learns to lie and master her face. (Someone should have those plaintiffs and defenders on the random court shows read Arya's lesson on how to control one's facial reactions. Judge Judy would be out of a job for she can read a lie as good as any FM).

Also, Martin says that Arya can spot a glamor easily, which I think is an advanced skill. (Smoke and mirrors: I have seen Beauty and the Beast and Little Mermaid live on Broadway, and I still do not know how Disney played their special effects. A disembodied Chip is pushed on a cart across the stage, talking to Mrs. Potts. The Beast rises to the ceiling and transforms into the Prince right before our eyes; the rose under glass magically loses its petals throughout the show; hungry wolves emerge from the stage floor, or hell, and chase Bell and then dad across the stage; in Mermaid, the stage is the ocean, like the face of an aquarium, and Ariel swims across, to the surface, and even rescues her love from the bottom of the sea and carries him to the top of the stage, wagging her fish tail. See - smoke and mirrors. Disney copyrights their special effects, so I can only speculate on how they do their tricks).

Arya never even looks in her Myrish mirror because all she would see is Arya Stark, or No One, not the Ugly Girl. She can see through the glamor.No one at the Wall sees through Mel's glamour, so Arya already has mastered certain deception skills.

If Arya had been there, she would have seen the truth of Mel’s glamour.

Her magic is strong, and with her Stark blood and her warging skills, I do not think the FM will drop her from their roll call anytime soon.

I think with the time that has passed, she has learned an amazing amount of knowledge and skill. She has "book smarts" and the physical aspect. Martin describes how built she is from her work on the docks with Taganaro and family. She carries and drags the dead around. Arya is buff. Martin doesn't use my words, but he infers that she has built up muscle mass.

She still has work to do - which I think will take her to the mummers at the Happy Port or elsewhere. She now has to learn to ACT with her new faces intact! She can wear ther masks, but all actors in costume cannot perform a standing O without some training. She will become mummer.

I also think that Martin has described the Mummers quite well for a reason, and Arya once called Hoat’s group “Bloody Mummers”, so it will be ironic for her to be one of them.

Izembaro may be a stage manager, a director, or an actor – but she needs to learn ensemble work.

As for futher speculation, and this is crack pot: Jaqen is connected to BR and the old gods – he had red and white hair and made Arya swear in a heart tree.

Jaqen as Pate is at the Citadel, searching for something, maybe. Or perhaps he wants the glass candle and a book Sam brought from the Wall, that same book on dragons that Tyrion was reading in GoT. If the FM can get their own dragon, they have a little Stark warg who can skinchange, and an agent of a Targ/Stark alliance in Bran and BR, so Jaqen will ride the dragon.

But Arya is my favorite character. She is spunky, and I hope she survives, or has a good death. Just my conjecture. :dunno:

Hope Im not repeating a question, but if Arya can see through glamour, why didn't she recognize Jaqens? Or is it a skill she only learned from FM?

[evita mgfs]

Well, I am only speculating - at the time she meets Jaqen, she has not sipped from the magic cups that the Kindly priest gives to her. These drinks, like the paste Bran eats, awakens certain parts of her psyche, as well, at times, takes a part of her - like when she was blind. But when her sight returned, it is kinda symbolic - she is no longer blind, she can see. It is through her blindness she learns her secret Stark truth - she is a warg.

Arya had no training when Jaqen met her; besides, he may have been wearing his true face.

Just my ideas. :dunno:

[Catacombs]

I find it unlikely that Arya will stay will the FM. They are not her pack and she knows it, but they do have skill and secrets to teach her. So she stays and learns and keeps her secrets to herself as her POV mentions over and over. Soon she will master the lying game and at some point the pull of her pack will be stronger than the pull of FM secrets and knowledge. When that happens I think she will leave.

She has been in a news blackout as far as Westeros is concerned. She knows very little about the Game of Thrones and the fate of her family. One day, she will learn something (perhaps a conversation with Bran through Nymeria or a sit down with Jeyne Poole or something else) and the pack will call her home.

When the Dream of Spring ends I suspect that Arya will have returned to Westeros. Whether she lives to the end is another matter.

[The Night's Prince]

In the end, her destiny, romantically will be with Jon. I will never back down from my stance on this unless Jon is actually her half brother.

[Newstar]

In the end, her destiny, romantically will be with Jon. I will never back down from my stance on this unless Jon is actually her half brother.

It's an interesting question which is weirder from an Oedipal standpoint: Jon/Sansa (since Sansa looks like Catelyn, the closest thing Jon has ever had to a mother), which seems to be a somewhat popular ship, or Jon/Arya (since Arya resembles Jon's actual biological mother).

I dunno about Arya's romantic destiny, but as far as I can tell, Jon's romantic destiny is with Dany, and thereafter he's got a hot date with death.

Sansa is the lone wolf, not Arya.

Even assuming this is correct--I'm not sure that it is, since Arya got the "lone wolf" spiel and not Sansa, and since Arya specifically thinks of Ned's words about the lone wolf dying in relation to Arya being the "lone wolf," which doesn't bode well--there is other foreshadowing to suggest that Arya will die young: Jon's "prophecy" about being found dead (as mentioned upthread), Ned comparing her to "beautiful, and willful, and dead before her time" Lyanna, Ned noting that Arya shared Brandon and Lyanna's "wolf blood' (which he specifically notes led both of them to an early grave), etc. etc.

Also, if Sansa is the lone wolf (and I suppose "doomed" by implication), that doesn't make Arya any "safer"; GRRM could easily kill off both of them. so squabbling over whether Sansa and Arya is going to die based on the "lone wolf" quote seems a bit wrongheaded to me. With that said, it seems to me that between Sansa and Arya, Arya's death seems foreshadowed more than Sansa's.

In the event that Arya survives the series, I have trouble seeing her tied down to any one location, even Winterfell. It may be that after her many trials, she'll decide that she's had her fill of adventure for a while and settle down to a (comparatively) quiet domestic existence, but I don't see it. However, "itinerant" doesn't really narrow it down: I like the pirate queen idea, I like the outlaw boss lady idea (like her fantasy about Wenda the White Fawn), heck, I even like the idea of her rambling around the Riverlands and doing her thing.

I do think that regardless of whether she lives to the end of the series, Arya is probably going to get one big kill. The question is, who? There seems to be an Arya/Tommen connection, via their association with cats (particularly, Tommen's terror of "the bad cat"). That would mean Tommen would have to live long enough for Arya to make it back to Westeros, though, and I have a strong suspicion that Tommen is going to bite it long before Arya returns. (I have trouble believing that GRRM would have Arya kill an innocent child, which seems to be the Moral Event Horizon for this series. Dirtbag NW deserters are one thing, but a goodhearted, sweet kid like Tommen?)

For not completely shooting down my statement and showing the "wtf?" smilies in response, I consider you my ASoIaF forum friend. I will come to your defense no matter what and support all of your theories, beliefs, predictions, etc. Bless you Newstar

Jon/Arya is not to my mind a crazy ship, given their warm thoughts about each other, and the likelihood that they're probably cousins and not blood siblings. Jon/Arya does have a bit of a fandom following, so it's definitely not just you. (Jon/Sansa is more popular, I think, but only because Sansa gets shipped with every character in these books.) In terms of weird ASOIAF ships, they wouldn't even crack the top 20.

[OberynBlackfyre]

For her story arc, I think the best thing would be for her to finish her training with the FM, and then head back to Westeros, but encounter someone that she held dear along the way. I think the drama of her having to dissassociate herself from her true identity is just too good to pass up, and GRRM knows how to stab people right in the gut. it would be sad if she ran into lets say: Sansa, and then totally didn't recognize her/ didn't let Sansa recognize who she was. I mean imagine having one of the last pieces of your family right in front of you, and not allowing them to know that you're there.....ouch.

Also, it'd be kinda cool if she was sent after Stonehart, however i really don't see it going that way

[The Night's Prince]

It's an interesting question which is weirder from an Oedipal standpoint: Jon/Sansa (since Sansa looks like Catelyn, the closest thing Jon has ever had to a mother), which seems to be a somewhat popular ship, or Jon/Arya (since Arya resembles Jon's actual biological mother).

I dunno about Arya's romantic destiny, but as far as I can tell, Jon's romantic destiny is with Dany, and thereafter he's got a hot date with death.

For not completely shooting down my statement and showing the "wtf?" smilies in response, I consider you my ASoIaF forum friend. I will come to your defense no matter what and support all of your theories, beliefs, predictions, etc. Bless you Newstar. :cheers:

[The Nite Wolf]

Also, Martin says that Arya can spot a glamor easily, which I think is an advanced skill. (Smoke and mirrors: I have seen Beauty and the Beast and Little Mermaid live on Broadway, and I still do not know how Disney played their special effects. A disembodied Chip is pushed on a cart across the stage, talking to Mrs. Potts. The Beast rises to the ceiling and transforms into the Prince right before our eyes; the rose under glass magically loses its petals throughout the show; hungry wolves emerge from the stage floor, or hell, and chase Bell and then dad across the stage; in Mermaid, the stage is the ocean, like the face of an aquarium, and Ariel swims across, to the surface, and even rescues her love from the bottom of the sea and carries him to the top of the stage, wagging her fish tail. See - smoke and mirrors. Disney copyrights their special effects, so I can only speculate on how they do their tricks).

Arya never even looks in her Myrish mirror because all she would see is Arya Stark, or No One, not the Ugly Girl. She can see through the glamor.No one at the Wall sees through Mel's glamour, so Arya already has mastered certain deception skills.

Was this mentioned in AFFC or ADWD? It's been some time since I've read either and my memory is a bit rusty. :drunk:

:agree: She most certainly is NOT the Lone Wolf. If anyone is that, its the other sister. Arya has an uncanny ability to draw people to her without trying. Theres something magnetic about her that makes people take interest. She speaks to everyone the same way. She does not seem to give two farts about whos a noble and who isnt. She always has a pack. And yeah, the one shes got now is all sorts of creepy. I think she may form another pack soon though...I dont feel that the Faceless Man gig is permanent.

[Florina and the Pack Survives beat me to it but I typed it, so I'm posting it.] At the risk of starting an enormous fight, Sansa is the lone wolf, not Arya. Sansa literally left the pack – by which I mean she put her own interests above her family's -- when she went to Cersei and told her Ned's plans. Immediately thereafter all of her friends and companions were taken away and she was imprisoned alone. She has not had any true friends or protectors (yeah, I know, Sandor but she chose not to go with him) since then. Sansa's family disinherited her, not her fault, but it means more isolation. She was taken to the Eyrie where there were no other highborn boys or girls her age and isolated even more by her Aunt and Littlefinger. She may make friends with Randa Royce, but I don't think Randa is trustworthy at all. There's no one to protect her from the danger closest to her – Littlefinger.

Arya, as I said in a previous post, has packs up the wazoo, including Nymeria's very real wolfpack that she runs with at night. So, the Night Wolf, not the Lone Wolf.

I completely agree with both of your points. And despite the fact that Ned only gave this talk to Arya, I assume that the notion of the lone wolf vs. the pack is a lesson for the entire Stark family. Considering how long they've been separated from one another, I think all of the Stark children could be considered lone wolves to a certain extent.

P.S. Given that the working title for what is now ADOS was "A Time for Wolves," I'm hoping that George has reached his quota of Stark deaths and will decide to have mercy on my little honey badger. Quite frankly, if Arya dies I'm not sure how I'll go on. Might as well start preparing myself now and hope for the best. XD

[leighm89]

Arya goes rogue or tries to get back to Westeros, and Jaqen assasinates her. Or is asked to and fakes her death instead. One thought I've had is that Arya is killed and fully takes hold inside Nymeria. with all of the interesting implications of our dear badass Arya being a crazy huge wolf with a pack of hundrds.

[Shadow_of_Asshai]

If Jon and Arya end up together "Stick them with the pointy end" will take on a pretty perverse meaning

[The Undefeated Gaul]

If Jon and Arya end up together "Stick them with the pointy end" will take on a pretty perverse meaning

HAHAHAHA. I see what you did there...

[Errant Bard]

Also, Martin says that Arya can spot a glamor easily, which I think is an advanced skill. (Smoke and mirrors: I have seen Beauty and the Beast and Little Mermaid live on Broadway, and I still do not know how Disney played their special effects. A disembodied Chip is pushed on a cart across the stage, talking to Mrs. Potts. The Beast rises to the ceiling and transforms into the Prince right before our eyes; the rose under glass magically loses its petals throughout the show; hungry wolves emerge from the stage floor, or hell, and chase Bell and then dad across the stage; in Mermaid, the stage is the ocean, like the face of an aquarium, and Ariel swims across, to the surface, and even rescues her love from the bottom of the sea and carries him to the top of the stage, wagging her fish tail. See - smoke and mirrors. Disney copyrights their special effects, so I can only speculate on how they do their tricks).

Arya never even looks in her Myrish mirror because all she would see is Arya Stark, or No One, not the Ugly Girl. She can see through the glamor.No one at the Wall sees through Mel's glamour, so Arya already has mastered certain deception skills.

Wait a goddam second, where did he say that? What's the interview, where did it take place, who recorded it, and where can I read it?

Was this mentioned in AFFC or ADWD? It's been some time since I've read either and my memory is a bit rusty. :drunk:

I'd like to know, too, I don't remember anything like that.

[kephv]

Arya's going full Faceless soon and is going to be a spy/killer and major upsetter in the game of thrones.

Was this mentioned in AFFC or ADWD? It's been some time since I've read either and my memory is a bit rusty.

No. It wasn't.

HAHAHAHA. I see what you did there...

Maester Aemon saw what he did there.

Wait a goddam second, where did he say that? What's the interview, where did it take place, who recorded it, and where can I read it?

He/she is either imagining things or they made it up.

[Ice Turtle]

The only thing I'm sure of is that Arya's ability to change her face will be important for the story, much more than anything else she has learned with FM and that she will have huge impact on Jon's storyline.

I think that Arya will have no trouble to recognize Alayne, few people that knew Sansa well would, but actually even Sansa might sense something is odd about "no one." Warg can recognize another warg and there is something magical about the bond between the direwolves and even if wolfbood runs thin in Sansa I think that part of Lady still lives in her.

[evita mgfs]

This is the theory I presented to the heretic thread:

After the priest does the Face Over on Arya, a spell that draws blood and requires Arya to drink something lemony, “She felt her cheeks, touched her eyes, traced the line of her jaw. ‘My face is still the same’” (DwD 843).

Arya does not feel any change, “but maybe it was not something you could feel. ‘It feels the same” (DwD 843).

“‘To you,’ said the priest. “It does not look the same.’

‘To others’ eyes, your nose and jaw are broken,’ said the waif. ‘One side of your face is caved in where your cheekbone shattered, and half your teeth are missing.’

“She probed around with her tongue, but found no holes or broken teeth. Sorcery, she thought, I have a new face. An ugly, broken face” (DwD 843).

In this magic I have some problems with ambiguity, especially since the priest and waif expound on the horror that is her new face; Arya needs the Phantom of the Opera’s white mask, [another MASK to hide her new one to spare the viewing public] and instead of howling at the moon in her wolf, she can perform “Music of the Night” with the Mummer’s in the Purple Harbor.

Arya can sense no change by tactile references. If she were I in a new Halloween costume or new outfit, I would race to a mirror to check out my disguise. But not precocious Arya who never takes another’s word as anything but wind, with a few exceptions [unless it is some growth on her part – she is learning to believe authority? Naw!]. My little ‘curious and curiouser’ No One never finds the Myrish mirror, in front of which she practiced commanding her facial muscles and learned to control a smile.

Martin does put the verb ‘feel’ in his sentences – does it mean that if Arya looked in her mirror, she could see her disguised face? Is it a seeming?

OR

I am guessing this sorcery to mean that to others, Arya is an Ugly Girl,

but since Arya is so well-trained at this point, she can discern artifice and glamor and FM magic.

So if she looks for her reflection in the glass, she will see No One, once Arya of House Stark.

I still think Arya would check her mirror – she oft defies the priest and seeks truth on her own.

What does this mean? In FM sorcery, the assassins will never truly see themselves in costume? –does that make sense?

Or will they cast no reflection, like my favorite vampire Barnabas Collins [RIP Jonathan Frid] of Dark Shadows fame, who keeps no mirrors in Collinwood to conceal from others that he is one of the living dead?

Deconstructing magic? The fact that Arya does not look in her mirror, or at her reflection in the water, seems fishy – and maybe an intimation of something to come, either in the FM magic or elsewhere.

in response, BLACK CROW SAID THIS, and I am quoting him: "On the matter of glamours, the short answer is that they mess with the mind. Someone seeing Arya (or Mel for that matter) thinks they see an ugly child or a beutiful woman in red - or Mance Rayder. Arya, if she was to look in the mirror would only see hereself as she is, because the glamour isn't mesing with her own mind."

I hope this helps. :blushing: