Arya's Destiny?

[Sand Snake No. 9]

If Jon and Arya end up together "Stick them with the pointy end" will take on a pretty perverse meaning

:ack:

I don't think Arya will die (it seems evident to me that she's one of GRRM's favorite characters; she's the only one who has a POV in all the books, and GRRM has said he loves writing her Braavos chapters) but I do think Jon will die or disappear into the ether like a good Christ figure, so imo Jon shipping is a waste of time.

It's also my opinion that Ned gave the "lone wolf" speech to the wrong sister, and Catelyn combed the wrong sister's hair. Another set of little tragedies in the story of the Starks. And even though I believe Sansa is the lone wolf (because she's like, alone) I don't think she'll die; instead she'll wind up married to a burly blacksmith or fat-faced innkeeper and have lots of babies in obscurity. Jaime has spoken.

[Errant Bard]

What does this mean? In FM sorcery, the assassins will never truly see themselves in costume? –does that make sense?

Yes, it's the usual glamour thing: it manipulates observers' perceptions, and the user is not affected by his own glamour.

Think of it as Jame's Cameron Avatar: Westerosi Edition. The actors cannot see that they are supposed to have blue skin, but the spectators? They see it. Here the movie is projected directly from the spell/face affixed to the FM into the brains of the passerbys. Fitting, as the FM training is basically actor's studio.

(I would find it ludicrous if trainee Arya could see through something the Kind man said was perfected over thousands of years to be fool-proof. Would push the mary-sue factor way too far. Especially when they, the guys who create the illusion and know it inside and out, say they cannot see through)

[Little Wing]

I'd actually like to see Arya and Gendry end up together as a fulfilment of the relationship that never took place between Lyanna and Robert whose almost exact replicas Arya and Gendry are.

It reminds me of how in Wuthering Heights Hareton and young Cathy are a catharsis of sorts for Heathcliff and Cathy's tumultuous and tragic relationship. Robert and Lyanna never had a relationship to begin with, but GRRM wouldn't replicate the story verbatim anyway, so I kind of hope this happens.

I can see GRRM making a twist on our expectations on the fate of the two sisters, Arya and Sansa, having Arya end up with Gendry and maybe even starting a family (having a pack) and Sansa being the Lone Wolf, as it has already been proposed, not marrying anyone (as she could end up having a healthy phobia of men and marriage alltogether).

But not before Arya kicks ass across Essos and Westeros first :ninja:

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

< SNIP >

Wonderful stuff, thank you for posting it.

I always thought that "seeing past glamour" talent of hers would play a significant role some day. I'm not very perceptive so I had to read it here on the forums to catch that, but that's not the point.

Since GRRM said he would eventually bring the storylines together in the next book, and seeing as how Mel is basically the master of glamours in Westeros right now, I think Arya could end up in that storyline and see Mel's "true face," so to speak.

[Ice Turtle]

I'd actually like to see Arya and Gendry end up together as a fulfilment of the relationship that never took place between Lyanna and Robert whose almost exact replicas Arya and Gendry are.

When it comes to personalities Gendry is nothing like Robert though he is very similar to Stannis.

I can see GRRM making a twist on our expectations on the fate of the two sisters, Arya and Sansa, having Arya end up with Gendry and maybe even starting a family (having a pack) and Sansa being the Lone Wolf, as it has already been proposed, not marrying anyone (as she could end up having a healthy phobia of men and marriage alltogether).

I suspect that Arya may end up married in politically significant marriage, but it will be her choice.

Yes, it's the usual glamour thing: it manipulates observers' perceptions, and the user is not affected by his own glamour.

Think of it as Jame's Cameron Avatar: Westerosi Edition. The actors cannot see that they are supposed to have blue skin, but the spectators? They see it. Here the movie is projected directly from the spell/face affixed to the FM into the brains of the passerbys. Fitting, as the FM training is basically actor's studio.

(I would find it ludicrous if trainee Arya could see through something the Kind man said was perfected over thousands of years to be fool-proof. Would push the mary-sue factor way too far. Especially when they, the guys who create the illusion and know it inside and out, say they cannot see through)

There is a question if their methods work with animals. KM says that glamour is not so hard to see trough, so I can imagine Arya learning that but FM methods are a whole other level.

[Little Wing]

When it comes to personalities Gendry is nothing like Robert though he is very similar to Stannis.

Um, I wasn't saying that at all, I meant just physically, but what I did say was that their relationship would come as a catharsis - that Arya and Gendry would be the best version of what Lyanna and Robert could have been. They are not Lyanna and Robert, but they could be a sort of history-repeating-itself-in-an-improved-way, a sort of evolution if you like. The Wuthering Heights parallel helps to get my idea across. Not saying this would happen, but one can hope...

[hughie]

Arya is learning to become an effective player of the game of thrones, so I have no doubt that she will play, win, and eventually rule. Gendry is her obvious partner. Whether the two of them will end up ruling the Seven Kingdoms or Craster's Keep is something I am not sure about.

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

Um, I wasn't saying that at all, I meant just physically, but what I did say was that their relationship would come as a catharsis - that Arya and Gendry would be the best version of what Lyanna and Robert could have been. They are not Lyanna and Robert, but they could be a sort of history-repeating-itself-in-an-improved-way, a sort of evolution if you like.

I thought this when I was reading their interactions as well. But as you said, it's more of a physical appearance thing more than actual deep character study. I would love to see Arya and Gendry as "what Lyanna and Robert could have been," yet for some reason I feel like that's not going to happen. History does repeat itself a lot (and there are striking parallels with the past events) in ASOIAF, but I think that (sadly) the Arya/Gendry story will be a shaggydog. GRRM put a lot of adorable, jealousy and confusion filled moments between them, but he's probably just go "LOL NOPE. My bad. Sorry I'm not sorry."

[Little Wing]

I know, it's just what I hope on happening at the very end... and Arya and Gendry ending up together may be a surprise still from GRRM seeing as everyone expects her to be "forever alone" and bad-ass for life a No One and so on (and she probably will be, but not for life perhaps?)... just because this is something many discount as happening is one more reason for it to maybe actually come to pass :smug:

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

I know, it's just what I hope on happening at the very end... and Arya and Gendry ending up together may be a surprise still from GRRM seeing as everyone expects her to be "forever alone" and bad-ass for life a No One and so on (and she probably will be, but not for life perhaps?)... just because this is something many discount as happening is one more reason for it to maybe actually come to pass :smug:

That's what I hope for too because I found their interactions so adorable and it made me puke rainbows and dance around with kittens xP and maybe you're right, I HOPE YOU'RE RIGHT, but I've learned not to hope so much regarding ASOIAF.

I believe Arya will return to Westeros and reunite with her siblings (at least one of them) and she may even regain herself back (not that she's truly gone at all), but I just don't see her having a healthy relationship with anyone but her siblings - at least for a long time.

[Errant Bard]

I always thought that "seeing past glamour" talent of hers would play a significant role some day.

You realize that this talent of hers exists only in speculation, and a pretty cracked one, at that, right?

That's what I hope for too because I found their interactions so adorable and it made me puke rainbows and dance around with kittens

... You expect them both to still be the same after five years? You want them to be the same?

I believe Arya will return to Westeros and reunite with her siblings (at least one of them) and she may even regain herself back (not that she's truly gone at all)

What does "regain herself back" mean? There is nothing to regain, she just grew up, and is actually very independent in the decisions she makes. This line of thought always feels to me something that implies that growing up and having a job means you "are not yourself" or something, and only by resigning and going back to live with your parents (/brothers/family) like when you were a kid will you be your "true self" or something.

[R'hllor's Bastard]

Is Arya never going to look like Arya again?

[Errant Bard]

Yes. She just needs to learn how to drop the disguise, like Jaqen. Doesn't seem too hard, plus she's up for learning magic soon.

[R'hllor's Bastard]

I thought she left her real face with the other faces in the sublevels of the House of B&W

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

What does "regain herself back" mean? There is nothing to regain, she just grew up, and is actually very independent in the decisions she makes. This line of thought always feels to me something that implies that growing up and having a job means you "are not yourself" or something, and only by resigning and going back to live with your parents (/brothers/family) like when you were a kid will you be your "true self" or something.

I was referring to her journey on becoming a No One. Not that she should go back to acting like the 9 year old girl in Winterfell.

[Newstar]

I don't think she'll die; instead she'll wind up married to a burly blacksmith or fat-faced innkeeper and have lots of babies in obscurity. Jaime has spoken.

Nah, I think that was just GRRM being cute (thus the oblique reference to both Gendry and Hot Pie). If it had been phrased differently or a little more ambiguously, sure, but "fat-faced innkeep"?

I think that Jaime's "prophecy" is actually a hint that Sansa won't go the way of obscurity.

Arya is learning to become an effective player of the game of thrones, so I have no doubt that she will play, win, and eventually rule.

Arya is learning how to become an effective assassin. Not the same thing. I agree that many of the skills she's picked up are transferable to other arenas, but look at her "teachers" to date: Syrio, Jaqen, the Hound, and now the FM. Not a politician/power player in the bunch. They are warriors and assassins. There's only one baby Stark who's being trained in the game of thrones, and it ain't Arya.

[Alia of the knife]

Arya is learning to become an effective player of the game of thrones, so I have no doubt that she will play, win, and eventually rule. Gendry is her obvious partner. Whether the two of them will end up ruling the Seven Kingdoms or Craster's Keep is something I am not sure about.

I tend to think the naming of their direwolves are a literary hint, and a foreshadowing of their destinies.

Disclaimer: I am not a Sansa-hater, but....

Sansa lost her wolf, and has been considered the least Stark of them all, even down to the inadvertent betrayal of her family, as well as her duplicity with Joffrey and learning all the political arts at the feet of LF which she has already proven to be so naturally adept at, (remember Tryion saying she just might outlive all of them), so I actually think she stands to become the dark wolf of the pack, not Arya.

She will kill a fair share of people before she is done, but her killing will be more descreet.

Arya, naming her wolf Nymeria and Ned telling her that one day she would marry a King, (note he didn't go just to Lord, but went straight to King), I think gives a hint to the Authors intent, or why write it that way?

She's going to struggle with her anger and vengeance, and it will take her to the edge, but I think remembering who her Father was and the impact his influence had on her is what makes her remember who she is, and it saves her, but I suspect turning her back on the FM could be the most dangerous thing for her.

She wants a home, she wants a pack and is good a making her own pack wherever she goes because she is open and accepting from sailers to prostitutes, so her mate could be anyone really.

She could very well amass enough support from the Free Cities to the North, as well as Jon to take KL on her own in the tradition of Nymeria, and her mate would have to be of her choosing.

And yes, Gendry could be a contender, but I also see Dornish Edric, (he's the only man due to his cultural upbringing that probably would be comfortable with being a Consort).

Or, Aurane Waters, (the real Aegon and switched with the pisswater boy -hence his name).

Edit: This last theory of Aegon/Aurane Waters courtesy of Poster "Modbelle."

[evita mgfs]

Yes. She just needs to learn how to drop the disguise, like Jaqen. Doesn't seem too hard, plus she's up for learning magic soon.

Do you believe when Arya first meets Jaqen he was wearing a disguise? Just curious? :blushing:

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

The lone wolf dies - both Arya and Nymeria may die, unless they are reunited? Along with potential meaning of her not being with her family. But, they are all lone wolves at the moment. Who is to say they may not all be united again at some point?

The foreshadowing is so dam ambiguous at times! :dunno:

Snip

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

GRRM was going to name TWoW A Dream of Spring, A Time for Wolves. What does that tell you?