Arya's Destiny?

[Elaena Targaryen]

Who is going to hire a Faceless Man to kill Dany? The Westerosi don't believe in the dragons and they probably won't until Dany burns down the Red Keep (oh, imagine dragon fire hitting all that wildfire Cersei has stored away!) The Braavosi may not like dragons because they bring back memories of slavery in Valeria, however, they lived pretty damn close to Targs and their dragons, when the Targs were on Dragonstone and in King's Landing, for hundreds of years without conflict, that we know of. So, knowing that Dany is heading toward Westeros like Aegon and his sisters did, why would they care? The Iron Bank might care because their debt might not get paid if anyone other than Stannis gains the Iron Throne, but I think they could put more pressure on the realm by calling in merchant loans as they have been doing.

There is even proof in the text that they, the Braavosi and Aegon the Conqueror including the Black Dread, have been on the same side in a conflict against Volantis.

“The tigers held sway for almost a century after the Doom of Valyria. For a time they were successful. A Volantene fleet took Lys and a Volantene army captured Myr, and for two generations all three cities were ruled from within the Black Walls. That ended when the tigers tried to swallow Tyrosh. Pentos came into the war on the Tyroshi side, along with the Westerosi Storm King. Braavos provided a Lyseni exile with a hundred warships, Aegon Targaryen flew forth from Dragonstone on the Black Dread, and Myr and Lys rose up in rebellion. The war left the Disputed Lands a waste, and freed Lys and Myr from the yoke. The tigers suffered other defeats as well. The fleet they sent to reclaim Valyria vanished in the Smoking Sea. Qohor and Norvos broke their power on the Rhoyne when the fire galleys fought on Dagger Lake. Out of the east came the Dothraki, driving smallfolk from their hovels and nobles from their estates, until only grass and ruins remained from the forest of Qohor to the headwaters of the Selhoru. After a century of war, Volantis found herself broken, bankrupt, and depopulated. It was then that the elephants rose up. They have held sway ever since. Some years the tigers elect a triarch, and some years they do not, but never more than one, so the elephants have ruled the city for three hundred years.”

I don't think Arya will die (it seems evident to me that she's one of GRRM's favorite characters; she's the only one who has a POV in all the books, and GRRM has said he loves writing her Braavos chapters)

This SSM shows we have Paris on our side with Arya.

Parris has proclaimed that Arya cannot die! (No, she wasn't there :( but he mentioned it when someone said that he's not allowed to kill Dany)

(I would find it ludicrous if trainee Arya could see through something the Kind man said was perfected over thousands of years to be fool-proof. Would push the mary-sue factor way too far. Especially when they, the guys who create the illusion and know it inside and out, say they cannot see through)

I've seen you mention this "mary sue" thing with Arya before and I am not sure what you mean exactly so could you please explain further? I think I may have an old school understanding of mary sue that differs from the way it may be used now on the forum.

[R'hllor's Bastard]

How is Arya going to look like Arya again when...

she leaves her face in the sublevels of the House of B&W and is sent away to train, does her face become property of the B&W? What are they gonna do? put her real face back on after her training?

[Talvivaara]

I don't think Arya will truly become a faceless man. She can't let go of her identity. Why would she have hidden the Needle otherwise? But the skills she learns with them will definitely come to some use. I personally hope she will meet Jaqen again at some point and find out more about him. Their interaction was wery interesting.

Two quotes from ADwD Epilogue

I think Ser Harys will visit the Iron Bank, and take an escort of guards made up of the Mountain's men, among them Polliver. Arya will recognize Polliver the moment she sees him. That could be what leads to Arya leaving the House of Black and White.

That's a good catch, I think there might be something there. It would surely make an interesting scene.

Edit: Sorry, couldn't get the quote to work properly.

[Errant Bard]

I thought she left her real face with the other faces in the sublevels of the House of B&W

She didn't, as she still feels her own face. What happened in the sanctum is that she got a new face "applied" on her. Or so I think, anyway. I'm not too clear on the process, but as we saw Jaqen operate, I theorize that you can only wear one face on top of your own at any time, and when you remove the disguise, you go back to your original appearance, and the face you were wearing dies for good, nobody will ever be able to wear it, and all the phantom memories that went with it are gone at least.

I was referring to her journey on becoming a No One.

What is that journey? Sounds to me merely like learning and growing up. A journey on becoming university graduate has more brainwashing, and yet nobody hopes the university students "go back" or something.

Jaqen sounds pretty non-robotic for what I think you imply this "noone" thing to be, and Arya's training... just teaches her how to lie.

has been considered the least Stark of them all

Stop right there, when one uses a passive sentence, it's always a trick to not say "I consider her the least Stark of them all".

Fact is "being Stark" means nothing. Sansa resembles Lyanna more than anyone else. What, you don't think eloping ("betraying" your father), crying at harp songs or even being a damsel in distress is a Sansa thing? Arya resemble her mother, with the grudging personality, quick temper, and harshness.

No matter the definition you get for Stark, I can probably demonstrate that Ned was not a Stark, based on that. No, Sansa is a Stark, she and her siblings define what Stark will mean for the people alive to see their actions. There is no "least" or "most" Stark, anymore than there is a "least" <insert your family name>.

Do you believe when Arya first meets Jaqen he was wearing a disguise? Just curious? :blushing:

Yes, I believe he was wearing the Jaqen face, and then when he told Arya that "A man must die", he removed that "face" (I think it's more a magical residue than a real leather face), destroying it in the process, and reverted to his original, real appearance. When he wanted to infiltrate the citadel, he needed a new appearance, so he killed Pate.

[Shadow_of_Asshai]

Fact is "being Stark" means nothing. Sansa resembles Lyanna more than anyone else. What, you don't think eloping ("betraying" your father), crying at harp songs or even being a damsel in distress is a Sansa thing? Arya resemble her mother, with the grudging personality, quick temper, and harshness.

.

I think you got the looks thing backwards

[Errant Bard]

I think you got the looks thing backwards

You know, looks are only a small part of what makes a person.

[evita mgfs]

The face is applied like a Halloween mask, and Arya's blood is like the actor's glue they use to keep such on. It "melts" and becomes one with her own face, taking on Arya's expressions, which is why Arya had to work with her facial muscles so much to control her smile and other expressions.

All that Arya is going through is Actor's Studio 101 - it is how actors train for a part. Now, the mask alone iis only a part of the whole show. - now she must hone her performance skills. A little girl may be called on to play a poor boy, a truculent teen, a pickpocket, whatever. Like Jaqen has to "Pull off" Pate, Arya has to reach the next level.

I still say, in the nicest way. to the bloody mummers she will go. :dunce:

[Little Wing]

She didn't, as she still feels her own face. What happened in the sanctum is that she got a new face "applied" on her. Or so I think, anyway. I'm not too clear on the process, but as we saw Jaqen operate, I theorize that you can only wear one face on top of your own at any time, and when you remove the disguise, you go back to your original appearance, and the face you were wearing dies for good, nobody will ever be able to wear it, and all the phantom memories that went with it are gone at least.

<snip>

This is how I understood the process as well. She didn't by any means lose her face.

[Errant Bard]

I still say, in the nicest way. to the bloody mummers she will go. :dunce:

Damn, I hope not, considering they are all dead now.

If it concerns her murders, I expect her to be subtle, surgical and not get much, if any blood on her hands. Especially has she will probably at one point reject orders to do her own thing. Sooner or later.

[R'hllor's Bastard]

Ok I get it now,the whole blood thing was throwing me off, so its glue of sorts

[Alia of the knife]

She didn't, as she still feels her own face. What happened in the sanctum is that she got a new face "applied" on her. Or so I think, anyway. I'm not too clear on the process, but as we saw Jaqen operate, I theorize that you can only wear one face on top of your own at any time, and when you remove the disguise, you go back to your original appearance, and the face you were wearing dies for good, nobody will ever be able to wear it, and all the phantom memories that went with it are gone at least.

What is that journey? Sounds to me merely like learning and growing up. A journey on becoming university graduate has more brainwashing, and yet nobody hopes the university students "go back" or something.

Jaqen sounds pretty non-robotic for what I think you imply this "noone" thing to be, and Arya's training... just teaches her how to lie.

Stop right there, when one uses a passive sentence, it's always a trick to not say "I consider her the least Stark of them all".

Fact is "being Stark" means nothing. Sansa resembles Lyanna more than anyone else. What, you don't think eloping ("betraying" your father), crying at harp songs or even being a damsel in distress is a Sansa thing? Arya resemble her mother, with the grudging personality, quick temper, and harshness.

No matter the definition you get for Stark, I can probably demonstrate that Ned was not a Stark, based on that. No, Sansa is a Stark, she and her siblings define what Stark will mean for the people alive to see their actions. There is no "least" or "most" Stark, anymore than there is a "least" <insert your family name>.

Yes, I believe he was wearing the Jaqen face, and then when he told Arya that "A man must die", he removed that "face" (I think it's more a magical residue than a real leather face), destroying it in the process, and reverted to his original, real appearance. When he wanted to infiltrate the citadel, he needed a new appearance, so he killed Pate.

Disclaimer: I am not a Sansa-hater.

Umm, first of all, we really don't have any information on Lyanna and what she did, or didn't do in regards to Rhaegar and her family other than fan speculation.

There are liklihoods, but as far as any facts, we don't have them yet.

Again, going back to the Authors intent, I think the fact that he has written Sansa the way he has also indicates something to us, and that is she has always been good at playing a part, and before she even falls under LF tutelage, she shows an affinity in "playing the game," and even Tyrion admits it.

Her act with Joffrey is almost reminiscent of Derek Jacobe and John Hurt in "I Claudius," accept in her case, without the physical afflictions.

Now, I don't blame her in the least for it, because she's trying to survive a madman, but she certainly is better at those endeavors than her Father, Arya, Brandon, Robb, and most likely any of the other Starks, because their biggest hallmark is their INability to play The Game of Thrones, and the fact they are too impolitic and "unsophisticated" to play Court games.

Especially if you look at the evidence that the Lords of WF are taught to take the lives themselves of those that they pronounce a death sentence on, rather than employ a headsman to do the dirty work, points to a lack of subterfuge and dealing with things directly.

[evita mgfs]

Damn, I hope not, considering they are all dead now.

If it concerns her murders, I expect her to be subtle, surgical and not get much, if any blood on her hands. Especially has she will probably at one point reject orders to do her own thing. Sooner or later.

That was an expression.

There are the mummers in Braavos at the two ports she often visits. Izembaro may be a stage manager, director, actor, or playwright.

I think the "bloody" mummers will be an irony if she ends up with an ensemble at one of the ports - for she hated the mummers, then.

She likes the ones in Braavos. yes? :dunno:

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

What is that journey? Sounds to me merely like learning and growing up. A journey on becoming university graduate has more brainwashing, and yet nobody hopes the university students "go back" or something.

... I'm... sorry...? For not wanting her to carry her training for too long and actually supress/forget Arya Stark? :shocked:

[Errant Bard]

she certainly is better at those endeavors than her Father, Arya, Brandon, Robb, and most likely any of the other Starks, because their biggest hallmark is their INability to play The Game of Thrones, and the fact they are too impolitic and "unsophisticated" to play Court games.

Yes, and so what? Arya is probably better at murdering people in back alleys than any other Stark, but that doesn't make her "less Stark". Bran is better than everyone at mind-controlling creatures, and we could talk about Ned's inability in that domain, too, that doesn't make him "less Stark". They all are Starks.

And like in the previous generation there was one swordsmaster, in the current there will be one politician. What's the big deal?

actually supress/forget Arya Stark

What does that mean? No, seriously, please elaborate.

[evita mgfs]

What does that mean? No, seriously.

She means that the longer Arya is under the tutelage of the FM, the more influence they will continue to have on her. I do not think she wants Arya to forget her Stark identity.

I may be wrong. :blushing:

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

Yes, and so what? Arya is probably better at murdering people in back alleys, and that doesn't make her "less Stark" or something either.

What does that mean? No, seriously.

What?! I never said it made her "less of a Stark." Wtf!?

She means that the longer Arya is under the tutelage of the FM, the more influence they will continue to have on her. I do not think she wants Arya to forget her Stark identity.

I may be wrong. :blushing:

Yes, thank you. I thought I was crystal clear but apparently not.

I merely remarked that I want her to be Arya Stark rather than someone who's learning to be No One. Note that I never said anything like her training makes her a bad person, or "she's bad at murdering people at the back alleys" or "makes her less of a Stark." What the hell?

[Little Wing]

In the first part of Errant Bard's post he was quoting Alia of the knife, not you. He quoted you in the next part. If that helps.

[Errant Bard]

She means that the longer Arya is under the tutelage of the FM, the more influence they will continue to have on her. I do not think she wants Arya to forget her Stark identity.

What's a "Stark identity"?

What?! I never said it made her "less of a Stark." Wtf!?

Indeed you did not, I was quoting and answering Alia of the knife with that bit, which can be verified if you take the time to read the name above the actual quote.

[Lady Flandrensis]

:agree: She most certainly is NOT the Lone Wolf. If anyone is that, its the other sister. Arya has an uncanny ability to draw people to her without trying. Theres something magnetic about her that makes people take interest. She speaks to everyone the same way. She does not seem to give two farts about whos a noble and who isnt. She always has a pack. And yeah, the one shes got now is all sorts of creepy. I think she may form another pack soon though...I dont feel that the Faceless Man gig is permanent.

I do think its possible for Arya's path to cross Dany's. Hell, at this point in the series, nearly anything is possible. But i do think her path will coincide with Jon's before it does Dany's. I may be very wrong..who knows.

Arya will choose her destiny i think...

:agree: Arya finds a pack throughout her storyline and wherever she is. If anyone survives, it'll be her. Bran has his pack, Sansa has only SweetRobin, so far hasn't warged and has no direwolf. Sansa is the Lone Wolf.

[evita mgfs]

What's a "Stark identity"?

Indeed you did not, I was quoting and answering Alia of the knife with that bit, which can be verified if you take the time to read the name above the actual quote.

The FM are conditioning Arya to be NO ONE, to deny herself as Arya of House Stark. I thought their technique was quite clear in Martin's Arya POV's. I do not want to use the term brainwash, because I think Arya is smart enough to keep in touch with her Stark roots.

To safeguard her ever forgetting Arya Stark, she hid Needle, who was WF to her, Rob, Bran, etc.