Definitely dead/Almost certainly living?

[The Angels' Prophet]

Tywin wasn't at the Trident. He didn't leave Casterly Rock until after, and he made his way directly to King's Landing in hopes that he would get there before Ned Stark.

The folks we do know were at the Trident were Robert Baratheon, Ned Stark, Jon Arryn, possibly Hoster Tully (JonCon had wounded him at the Battle of the Bells, so he might have been at Riverrun), Barristan Selmy, Roose Bolton, and Lyn Corbray. It's also implied that Howland Reed was there, as well as Rickard Karstark, and the Greatjon (one of the Umbers is said to have died on the Trident).

I'm talking people who could 100% say it was Rhaegar. These people would be:

Aerys II, His father

Rhaella his mother

Elia Martell. his wife

Viserys, even though he was only eight, he was still his brother

Ser Arthur Dayne, his close friend

Ser Gerold Hightower, his, implied, close friend

Jon Connington, practically worshipped the ground Rhaegar walked

Lyanna Stark, his alleged victim

Tywin Lannister, Hand of the King for many years

Ser Barristan Selmy, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard

Now, as you can see, most of these people are now dead, or exiled. I believe no one carefully examined him that was at the Trident. Besides, regardless of whether Rhaegar is dead, I believe Robert beat him after his death. So that would have made identifying him difficult, except for maybe Elia, Aerys, or Rhaella.

EDIT: Ned was at the Trident? Where does it say that?( I'm not disputing you, I'm just curious.)

[Bear Island Bruiser]

Think you're clutching at straws. He was the Prince of the realm and a very public figure. What about all the people that saw him at the tournament at Harrenhal? Yeah I give you it's easy enough in the Ice and Fire world to pass yourself off as someone else but he's too big a figure in the kingdom for people to not be able to recognise him.

I mean anyone who was at court at the time would have seen him, plenty of state functions he couldn't have got away with only a passing glimpse at all of them. Plus what about the defeated commanders in his army at the Trident? There would have been enough Lieutenants around to vouch for him.

[Bear Island Bruiser]

Now if you wanted to say that Darkstar might be R&L's kid and Ned hid him away with the Dayne's who he got on with....well that's another story.

[Tharvot]

Of those questionable characters -

Alive:

Sandor

Jon Snow

Stannis

Davos

Brienne

Dead:

Aegon (the current "Aegon" is a fake)

Benjen (unless he is undead, there is no way he has survived the wilderness this long)

Berric Dondarrion (died his final death to resurrect Cat)

Undead:

Cat

Gregor

[Breaker of Ice]

Since GRRM has said that Syrio is dead, i'm going with that.

[Lightstar]

Of those questionable characters -

Alive:

Sandor

Jon Snow

Stannis

Davos

Brienne

Dead:

Aegon (the current "Aegon" is a fake)

Benjen (unless he is undead, there is no way he has survived the wilderness this long)

Berric Dondarrion (died his final death to resurrect Cat)

Undead:

Cat

Gregor

Why can't Benjen survive in the wild that long? Thorne did.

[The Angels' Prophet]

Now if you wanted to say that Darkstar might be R&L's kid and Ned hid him away with the Dayne's who he got on with....well that's another story.

Ohhh, I like this theory. But wouldn't Darkstar be too old?

[Tharvot]

Why can't Benjen survive in the wild that long? Thorne did.

Thorne or Quorin?

I think with all the activity going on north of The Wall, its highly unlikely that Benjen would be alive still...well fully alive anyhow.

[Aldora92]

Thorne or Quorin?

I think with all the activity going on north of The Wall, its highly unlikely that Benjen would be alive still...well fully alive anyhow.

He is a Stark, he was trained by the master of his house, Lords are better with swords then commoners... and he was first ranger, which implies even greater skill and a working brain to go with it. There are a few posibilities that would see him survive, the first being his skill with a blade, and the cunning he most certainly has, the secodn would be the King Beyond the wall, we know he has a high regard for starks, as Osha says when she is trying to rob Bran, Mance would reward them for a stark, perhaps Mance saved him and sent him on a mission, we know the Starks to be honorable, Benjen would have been in his debt.

[Pope Killdragon]

Can some explain Mance Rayder being Arthur Dayne to me because this sounds like total bs.

[Aldora92]

Can some explain Mance Rayder being Arthur Dayne to me because this sounds like total bs.

I agree, AD had nearly killed Ned, yet MR was at the feast when Rob was in winterfell, he would have recognized him if it was truly him...

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

Almost certainly living: Catelyn

(sometimes I think I'm funny but I'm actually not xD)

[redviper9]

Can some explain Mance Rayder being Arthur Dayne to me because this sounds like total bs.

I've never seen anyone give good reasoning for this theory. Most of the reasoning seems to be along the lines of "Mance is a good swordsman, and so was Arthur Dayne." By that logic, I can claim that Jaime Lannister or Barristan Selmy is actually Arthur Dayne.

[Lightstar]

I agree, AD had nearly killed Ned, yet MR was at the feast when Rob was in winterfell, he would have recognized him if it was truly him...

Well we don't really know what Arthur Dayne looked like, all we know was he was an amazing fighter (which Mance certainly is.)

We know Mance has the skill with arms and the leadership potential to become the King in the North.

Why was Mance sent to the wall? We know he saw Jon at Winterfell twice, once as a ranger in the Nightswatch. Why would Mance care to remember him?

Arthur Dayne is supposedly Rhaegar's best friend, they both are extremely talented singers and harp players.

We also know Mance has tasted the Dornishman's wife (being Dornish) and we know Mance has been known to steal a woman from the North.

The theory regarding Arthur Dayne is he fell in love with Lyanna at Harrenhall, but as a knight of the Kingsguard could not have her. Therefore his best friend, Rhaegar comes up with a solution. He'll take her and claim her... Benjen Stark helps Lyanna escape with Arthur to the ToJ... this is why he joins the Nightswatch.

A + L = J. When fighting at the ToJ, Howland incapacitates AD and Ned convinces him to take the black where he can sometimes visit and watch his son (Jon) grow up.

Mance wrote the Ramsay letter, because he wants to reveal the truth to his son in the Stark crypts and perhaps give him a certain sword which has been rumored to be in Lyanna's tomb.

This also matches with what Alfie has said about Jon being in a Luke Skywalker situation. Jon being Luke and Mance being Darth Vader... Jon is trying to turn Mance to the "light side" after Mance tried to turn Jon to the "dark side."

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

Of those questionable characters -

Alive:

Sandor

Jon Snow

Stannis

Davos

Brienne

Dead:

Aegon (the current "Aegon" is a fake)

Benjen (unless he is undead, there is no way he has survived the wilderness this long)

Berric Dondarrion (died his final death to resurrect Cat)

Undead:

Cat

Gregor

:agree:

[Aldora92]

Well we don't really know what Arthur Dayne looked like, all we know was he was an amazing fighter (which Mance certainly is.)

We know Mance has the skill with arms and the leadership potential to become the King in the North.

Why was Mance sent to the wall? We know he saw Jon at Winterfell twice, once as a ranger in the Nightswatch. Why would Mance care to remember him?

Arthur Dayne is supposedly Rhaegar's best friend, they both are extremely talented singers and harp players.

We also know Mance has tasted the Dornishman's wife (being Dornish) and we know Mance has been known to steal a woman from the North.

The theory regarding Arthur Dayne is he fell in love with Lyanna at Harrenhall, but as a knight of the Kingsguard could not have her. Therefore his best friend, Rhaegar comes up with a solution. He'll take her and claim her... Benjen Stark helps Lyanna escape with Arthur to the ToJ... this is why he joins the Nightswatch.

A + L = J. When fighting at the ToJ, Howland incapacitates AD and Ned convinces him to take the black where he can sometimes visit and watch his son (Jon) grow up.

Mance wrote the Ramsay letter, because he wants to reveal the truth to his son in the Stark crypts and perhaps give him a certain sword which has been rumored to be in Lyanna's tomb.

This also matches with what Alfie has said about Jon being in a Luke Skywalker situation. Jon being Luke and Mance being Darth Vader... Jon is trying to turn Mance to the "light side" after Mance tried to turn Jon to the "dark side."

Mance remembered Jon because he is a bastard Stark, we know Mance greatly respects the Starks.

If Mance was Dayne, then he would have been recognized by Ned, who had fought him, you would not forget the face of such a deadly enemy...

Mance could know the truth about Jon even if he is not Dayne, Benjen could have been aware of the truth if Ned told him, and Benjen is missing, he could have been taken in by Mance after he disappeared, and is now on some mission somewhere beyond the wall, with some wildlings...

(I like to think Ned and Benjen are both alive, and together doing something so important that Ned would forsake his family for the time being...)

[fassreiter]

Well we don't really know what Arthur Dayne looked like, all we know was he was an amazing fighter (which Mance certainly is.)

We know Mance has the skill with arms and the leadership potential to become the King in the North.

Why was Mance sent to the wall? We know he saw Jon at Winterfell twice, once as a ranger in the Nightswatch. Why would Mance care to remember him?

Arthur Dayne is supposedly Rhaegar's best friend, they both are extremely talented singers and harp players.

We also know Mance has tasted the Dornishman's wife (being Dornish) and we know Mance has been known to steal a woman from the North.

The theory regarding Arthur Dayne is he fell in love with Lyanna at Harrenhall, but as a knight of the Kingsguard could not have her. Therefore his best friend, Rhaegar comes up with a solution. He'll take her and claim her... Benjen Stark helps Lyanna escape with Arthur to the ToJ... this is why he joins the Nightswatch.

A + L = J. When fighting at the ToJ, Howland incapacitates AD and Ned convinces him to take the black where he can sometimes visit and watch his son (Jon) grow up.

Mance wrote the Ramsay letter, because he wants to reveal the truth to his son in the Stark crypts and perhaps give him a certain sword which has been rumored to be in Lyanna's tomb.

This also matches with what Alfie has said about Jon being in a Luke Skywalker situation. Jon being Luke and Mance being Darth Vader... Jon is trying to turn Mance to the "light side" after Mance tried to turn Jon to the "dark side."

Wait, this is actually a theory here on this board?

[redviper9]

Well we don't really know what Arthur Dayne looked like, all we know was he was an amazing fighter (which Mance certainly is.)

We know Mance has the skill with arms and the leadership potential to become the King in the North.

Why was Mance sent to the wall? We know he saw Jon at Winterfell twice, once as a ranger in the Nightswatch. Why would Mance care to remember him?

Arthur Dayne is supposedly Rhaegar's best friend, they both are extremely talented singers and harp players.

We also know Mance has tasted the Dornishman's wife (being Dornish) and we know Mance has been known to steal a woman from the North.

The theory regarding Arthur Dayne is he fell in love with Lyanna at Harrenhall, but as a knight of the Kingsguard could not have her. Therefore his best friend, Rhaegar comes up with a solution. He'll take her and claim her... Benjen Stark helps Lyanna escape with Arthur to the ToJ... this is why he joins the Nightswatch.

A + L = J. When fighting at the ToJ, Howland incapacitates AD and Ned convinces him to take the black where he can sometimes visit and watch his son (Jon) grow up.

Mance wrote the Ramsay letter, because he wants to reveal the truth to his son in the Stark crypts and perhaps give him a certain sword which has been rumored to be in Lyanna's tomb.

This also matches with what Alfie has said about Jon being in a Luke Skywalker situation. Jon being Luke and Mance being Darth Vader... Jon is trying to turn Mance to the "light side" after Mance tried to turn Jon to the "dark side."

Mance wasn't sent to the Wall, at least not in the way that most people are. Mance was born beyond-the-Wall, and as a small child he was the lone survivor of a ranger-wildling clash. The rangers took him back to the Shadow Tower, where he grew up until he said his vows.

Also, there are two big knots in this theory. The first is Mance's going to Winterfell when King Robert was there. If Mance really were Arthur Dayne, there are a number of people who could have recognized him: Ned Stark; Robert Baratheon; Jaime Lannister; Cersei Lannister; possibly Benjen Stark (he would have seen Dayne at the Tournament of Harrenhal); maybe even Catelyn Stark.

The second knot is Ned's own recollection of the events at the Tower of Joy. Why would Ned lie in his own thoughts about him and Howland Reed being the only survivors, or his having built eight cairns to bury the dead? Remember, we're not talking about something Ned told someone, but his inner monologue. I don't see Ned as the kind of person who would internally lie to himself.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

We also know Mance has tasted the Dornishman's wife (being Dornish)

We know what now?

[Bear Island Bruiser]

Ohhh, I like this theory. But wouldn't Darkstar be too old?

Yeah it does fall down a bit then. Are we sure we know how old Darkstar is? I mean there are an awful lot of posts on how Jon can be their kid and he's old enough to be Lord Commander of the Nights Watch. So it's completely feasible that someone of arround the same age can lead the Knights errant.

It also goes to explain why he looks a lot like Rhaegar and all the different conflicting stories around who Jon's mum is. As in he left one child with Ashara Dayne, this is Darkstar who looks enough like her, dark hair violet eyes, to be passed off as a relation, and Jon is actually his bastard from another woman. With 2 young kids at the other ends of Westeros there can easily be rumours started up to explain all the rumours about Ned.

I'm not saying it's right but the whole R+L=J thing seems almost too likely to be true now.