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Definitely dead/Almost certainly living?


Pope Killdragon

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A lot of things don't come up in PoVs... perhaps GRRM does not want us to know about him being a warg... perhaps he never took over another persons body, maybe he became Grey Wind and fought at his sons side during the war... perhaps he became Nymeria and is creating an army of actual wolves... just because we did not know about it in his PoVs does not mean he was not one...

It is possible that all of the Starks are Wargs... how is it possible that a man who is not a Warg father 5 (6 if you think Jon is his) wargs, one of who is a greenseer? Perhaps this is why they keep to themselves in the north, southerners would more then likely slay them for it...

Being a warg is too big to not have crossed his own mind. Thats not believable writing. Warging would've come in handy several times during his POVs and you're telling me that it's possible that it just never crossed his mind? Preposterous.

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Being a warg is too big to not have crossed his own mind. Thats not believable writing. Warging would've come in handy several times during his POVs and you're telling me that it's possible that it just never crossed his mind? Preposterous.

When was he around animals with a chance of doing so that would have been advantageous, beneficial to the story, and would have fit at all? Never.

Possibilities:

As a rat in the dungeon? What point does that serve?

One of the wolf cubs on the way back from beheading the deserter? Wasn't in his POV.

I'm not sure of any other time he would have been alone with an animal and would have had the time or reason to do so. I don't even believe that he is alive, but for you to say he can't warg bc we didn't see him do it is what is preposterous.

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Being a warg is too big to not have crossed his own mind. Thats not believable writing. Warging would've come in handy several times during his POVs and you're telling me that it's possible that it just never crossed his mind? Preposterous.

Why would he think about it? Does he ever contemplate himself being human? No? Does this mean that because the thought did not cross his mind during his PoVs that he was not human?

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When was he around animals with a chance of doing so that would have been advantageous, beneficial to the story, and would have fit at all? Never.

Possibilities:

As a rat in the dungeon? What point does that serve?

One of the wolf cubs on the way back from beheading the deserter? Wasn't in his POV.

I'm not sure of any other time he would have been alone with an animal and would have had the time or reason to do so. I don't even believe that he is alive, but for you to say he can't warg bc we didn't see him do it is what is preposterous.

The implication is that Ned is a strong enough warg that he can take the body of another person.

Why would he think about it? Does he ever contemplate himself being human? No? Does this mean that because the thought did not cross his mind during his PoVs that he was not human?

Being a warg is a separate state of being that is beneficial in dangerous situations. It's an advantage he has and couldv'e used several times. It never happened to cross his mind for an instant. Again, preposterous.

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The implication is that Ned is a strong enough warg that he can take the body of another person.

Being a warg is a separate state of being that is beneficial in dangerous situations. It's an advantage he has and couldv'e used several times. It never happened to cross his mind for an instant. Again, preposterous.

It may be preposterous to you, but It is not impossible. It may be a very slim chance, but it is still possible. Personally, I do not think he was, but I accept the possibility of it. Just as Ice sweeps down to take his head, we hear pigeons fly away, he could have warged into one of these...

Besides, even if he could warg into other people and take over, and even if he could have used it several times before his head was cut off, he would not have used his abilities, because of the type of person he was... he had honor, and there is nothing honorable about forcing a person out of their own bodies... and he had no need to use his abilities while he was locked in the keep as a hostage, because he had no reason to suspect he would be killed. If Joffrey listened to his council or mother, Ned would have survived... untill his execution was called for, he had no need to warg, as he thought he was going to live.

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It may be preposterous to you, but It is not impossible. It may be a very slim chance, but it is still possible. Personally, I do not think he was, but I accept the possibility of it. Just as Ice sweeps down to take his head, we hear pigeons fly away, he could have warged into one of these...

Besides, even if he could warg into other people and take over, and even if he could have used it several times before his head was cut off, he would not have used his abilities, because of the type of person he was... he had honor, and there is nothing honorable about forcing a person out of their own bodies... and he had no need to use his abilities while he was locked in the keep as a hostage, because he had no reason to suspect he would be killed. If Joffrey listened to his council or mother, Ned would have survived... untill his execution was called for, he had no need to warg, as he thought he was going to live.

And you still think it believable that it never once crossed his mind? Not even as an unlikely contingency? For the third time, preposterous.

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And you still think it believable that it never once crossed his mind? Not even as an unlikely contingency? For the third time, preposterous.

Yes I do think it is believable.

He may not have known about it until he was in the dungeons... he may have practiced it.

You are saying it is preposterous, but it is not impossible. GRRM can do whatever he wants, so it cannot be impossible, and even a small chance is still a chance. I do not believe it myself, but am open to the idea, unlike you.

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Definitely Dead

Rickard Stark

Brandon Stark

Rhaegar Targaryen

Lewyn Martell

Jon Darry

Aerys II Targaryen

Elia Martell

Rhaenys Targaryen

Gerold Hightower

Arthur Dayne

Oswell Whent

Lyanna Stark

Rhaella Targaryen

Jon Arryn

Viserys Targaryen

Robert Baratheon

Ned Stark

Khal Drogo

Renly Baratheon

Maester Luwin

Jeor Mormont

Hoster Tully

Balon Greyjoy

Robb Stark

Joffrey Baratheon

Oberyn Martell

Shae

Tywin Lannister

Lysa Tully

Beric Dondarrion

Arys Oakheart

Maester Aemon

Quentyn Martell

Grand Maester Pycelle

Kevan Lannister

Enough wiggle room to create doubt

Aegon VI Targaryen

Ashara Dayne

Benjen Stark

Syrio Forel

Tyrek Lannister

Jon Snow

Probably still alive

Sandor Clegane

:agree: all but the Bloodraven part, for obvious reasons.

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Yes I do think it is believable.

He may not have known about it until he was in the dungeons... he may have practiced it.

You are saying it is preposterous, but it is not impossible. GRRM can do whatever he wants, so it cannot be impossible, and even a small chance is still a chance. I do not believe it myself, but am open to the idea, unlike you.

Right, if GRRM wanted to, he could've hidden a five headed dragon in the dungeons with Ned whom might have conspired to help Ned escape by giving him one of his heads. Yeah, I'm open to that possiblity.

Point is, Martin has given us absolutely nothing to suggest that Ned was a warg. So I believe that theory is for the, count it, fourth time, preposterous.

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Right, if GRRM wanted to, he could've hidden a five headed dragon in the dungeons with Ned whom might have conspired to help Ned escape by giving him one of his heads. Yeah, I'm open to that possiblity.

Point is, Martin has given us absolutely nothing to suggest that Ned was a warg. So I believe that theory is for the, count it, fourth time, preposterous.

And until we found out that the Stark children were Wargs, that idea was preposterous, because there had been no wargs south of the wall for a long time. Luwin tells bran his dreams do not mean anything...

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Come on you could just as easily say that Quentyn Martell warged into one of the dragons before he died, Sandor isn't the grave digger but warged into dog and Jorah Mormont warged into his crow.

The point in the book is that in general the ability to warg is very rare and requires practise to perfect. Ned's dead and he's not coming back.

But yeah I'm fairly sure Sandor is the grave digger but I'd be surprised if that's ever officially confirmed in the books.

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No evidence whatsoever that Quaithe is Shiera other than the fact that she's connected to BR, her death is pretty questionable, and she was said to dabble in black arts and did a Bathory type thing to maintain her beauty.

Elio and Linda, owners of Westeros.org, made it pretty clear in one of their Youtube videos that they think that Quaithe is Ashara Dayne. now, I've also thought she was Septa Lemore. perhaps she is all three.
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But yeah I'm fairly sure Sandor is the grave digger but I'd be surprised if that's ever officially confirmed in the books.

He is IMHO definitely the grave digger, doing penance for his "sins", learning why he has this rage, and overcoming it against his brother. But he is definitely coming back - GRRM hasn't built up this story with him and Sansa in such a meaningful way to leave that powerful psychologically transformative thread between them open.
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He is IMHO definitely the grave digger, doing penance for his "sins", learning why he has this rage, and overcoming it against his brother. But he is definitely coming back - GRRM hasn't built up this story with him and Sansa in such a meaningful way to leave that powerful psychologically transformative thread between them open.

Not sure on that front maybe he comes along to recognise her but I'd say the whole Sansa thing was done to show he wasn't just a vicious killer and that there was a decent side to him, so worth saving. Quiet Isle is well out of the way, so there is a good chance no one else is going there. If it is Sandor he'd have to leave the island and he's still a wanted man and doing his penance. Besides he's finally at rest there.

I won't rule out him cropping up again but I'd also say it's quite a nice way to leave it..

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Not sure on that front maybe he comes along to recognise her but I'd say the whole Sansa thing was done to show he wasn't just a vicious killer and that there was a decent side to him, so worth saving. Quiet Isle is well out of the way, so there is a good chance no one else is going there. If it is Sandor he'd have to leave the island and he's still a wanted man and doing his penance. Besides he's finally at rest there.

I won't rule out him cropping up again but I'd also say it's quite a nice way to leave it..

;) Remember, though. There are CONSTANT phrases in the books about Sansa thinking of The Hound. and at some point it changes to Sandor Clegane. not the Hound anymore. This is similar to how Arya stops calling him the Hound on their road trip. She ultimately starts calling him Sandor as well. But Sansa and Sandor's connection is deeper. He IS her direwolf icon. And i truly believe that he's going to leave to go help her after Brienne arrived at QI and said she had promised Cat to find Sansa. he knows she's in trouble, and he's going to try and find her. and i think Sansa ends up turning the damsel in distress trope on end and saves Sandor from Gregor. Sandor can't kill his brother, either before or after his zen transformation. But Sansa can. and it will be the only kill she makes in this series. To protect her "wolf". and maybe more. It also does two more things: 1) She pays him back karmically for all the times Sandor has protected Sansa. and 2) It is Sansa's redemption for the lie that resulted in Lady's death. She saves her wolf this time, and puts her own life on the line to do it. The greatest sacrifice. I think they both live. and then, A Dream of Spring.
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