What would happen to the Dreadfort if the Boltons get killed off?

[Dark Heart]

That's an interesting question. If Jeyne gives birth to a son of Ramsay, would that child be a bastard, seeing that his mother married under a fake identity?

If it is a legitimate child though, I think it still comes after Walda's kid.

I hope she's not pregnant. I'm not sure that the child wouldn't be a bastard considering the mother is not Arya. But then he did merry her knowing she's not so maybe it would be.

Anyway, if the child is "true born" then it's Ramsay's heir.

And then it should be the heir of Dreadfort.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Anyway, if the child is "true born" then it's Ramsay's heir.

And then it should be the heir of Dreadfort.

Ramsay is heir to the Dreadfort only if Walda doesn't give birth to a son. Legitimized bastards come after trueborn kids in the line of succession.

[Light a wight tonight]

Fat Walda's kid would be a Bolton and a Frey. Would you want them for neighbors? I thought not.

[Lord Martin]

Is it me or is there a real dearth of heirs in the north? Particularly a dearth of young heirs, say under 40.

Here are the remaining major northern houses and the status of their heirs.

Hornwood: All gone save for Laurence Snow, a bastard in the care of the Glovers. I assume he will take these lands eventually and be legitimized somehow. He could even marry Sansa, Arya or Shireen Baratheon.

Umber: Two old men playing both sides of a war and a captive at the Twins. House Umber is screwed. The Greatjon has to survive and father more kids if House Umber is to continue.

House Cerwyn: Down to Lady Cerwyn.

House Dustin: Barbrey Ryswell - is she too old to have kids? She's the only Dustin left. Do the Ryswells have a claim to those lands now?

House Ryswell: There is Rodrick and his cousins, but they are all a generation older than Lady Dustin.

Karstark: Harrion the Heir is a captive (and I suspect will actually live to be Lord of Karhold, someone has to) Arnolf is in big trouble b/c of Stannis; Creegan is in an ice cell and Alys is married to a Thenn. Harrion it will be with the same possible wedding matches as Larry Snow.

House Tallhart: Down to all children. Lady Eddara is 9 and her cousins are 14 and 10. House Tallhart actually has members who can extend the house's line.

House Glover: Galbart is a bachelor with no children (not even any bastards). Robett has two children though a son and daughter. His son will be heir to Deepwood after Robett. His daughter is only 1 and won't be producing heirs for a while.

House Manderly: Not as great as it would seem. Wyman isn't long for this world and may take the Boltons with him Wylis is heir and is safe at White Harbor. Cousin marlon runs the garrison. Wylis could always have more children.

House Bolton: Roose and Walda can still have kids and there is always Ramsay.

House Reed: Howland, Meera and Jojen. Lets hope there are more Reeds out there!

House Mormont: Thank god for the she-bears. Otherwise the north is really lacking in noble ladies. Maege is the old head of the house. Alysane has two kids, a boy and a girl. There are also Lyra, Jorelle and the most bad ass Lyanna.

Stark: Sadly is in better shape than most northern houses with Sansa, Arya, and Rickon. Bran cannot have children. Jon Snow counts too I guess.

Then there are a few other houses like the Flints, Norrey, Lockes etc... but we know very little about them.

So its not just who ends up with the Dredfort... but who will end up with just about all the northern castles???

Here are my guesses:

Hornwood: Laurence Snow (possibly with a Glover as de facto til Snow comes of age)

The Last Hearth: House Thenn (Alys Karstark and Thenn)

Barrowtown: (Roose Ryswell - consolidating with Ryswell lands note the Ryswells do not have a proper castle)

Karhold: Harrion Karstark

Torren's Sq: Eddara Tallhart

Deepwood Motte: Stays House Glover

White Harbor: Stays Manderly

Bear Island: Stays Mormont

That leaves castle Cerwyn and the Dreadfort to fill.

I'd have to imagine even in the north (or maybe especially in the north) they won't kill Roose's unborn son. He could ward with another Lord for a time and then be allowed to take over when he comes of age.

I guess there are a lot of castles to fill, wouldn't surprise me if many went to wildlings.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Fat Walda's kid would be a Bolton and a Frey. Would you want them for neighbors? I thought not.

I don't think you can reasonably blame a child for who his parents are. For their part in the Red Wedding, both Ramsay and his wife deserve to be punished - and in the North that punishment is dead, IIRC. But not the child, IMO.

Umber: Two old men playing both sides of a war and a captive at the Twins. House Umber is screwed. The Greatjon has to survive and father more kids if House Umber is to continue.

House Manderly: Not as great as it would seem. Wyman isn't long for this world and may take the Boltons with him Wylis is heir and is safe at White Harbor. Cousin marlon runs the garrison. Wylis could always have more children.

Stark: Sadly is in better shape than most northern houses with Sansa, Arya, and Rickon. Bran cannot have children. Jon Snow counts too I guess.

According to the wiki, “The Greatjon is mentioned as having "sons and brothers" with him when he answers Robb's calling of the banners.”

As for the Manderlys, you’re forgetting that Wylis has two daughters – Wynafryd and the forum favourite Wylla. They are betrothed to Freys at the moment, but I don’t think that will stand in the future.

And there's no evidence to suggest that Bran can't physically have children.

[Barty]

Is it me or is there a real dearth of heirs in the north? Particularly a dearth of young heirs, say under 40.

Here are the remaining major northern houses and the status of their heirs.

Hornwood: All gone save for Laurence Snow, a bastard in the care of the Glovers. I assume he will take these lands eventually and be legitimized somehow. He could even marry Sansa, Arya or Shireen Baratheon.

Umber: Two old men playing both sides of a war and a captive at the Twins. House Umber is screwed. The Greatjon has to survive and father more kids if House Umber is to continue.

House Cerwyn: Down to Lady Cerwyn.

House Dustin: Barbrey Ryswell - is she too old to have kids? She's the only Dustin left. Do the Ryswells have a claim to those lands now?

House Ryswell: There is Rodrick and his cousins, but they are all a generation older than Lady Dustin.

Karstark: Harrion the Heir is a captive (and I suspect will actually live to be Lord of Karhold, someone has to) Arnolf is in big trouble b/c of Stannis; Creegan is in an ice cell and Alys is married to a Thenn. Harrion it will be with the same possible wedding matches as Larry Snow.

House Tallhart: Down to all children. Lady Eddara is 9 and her cousins are 14 and 10. House Tallhart actually has members who can extend the house's line.

House Glover: Galbart is a bachelor with no children (not even any bastards). Robett has two children though a son and daughter. His son will be heir to Deepwood after Robett. His daughter is only 1 and won't be producing heirs for a while.

House Manderly: Not as great as it would seem. Wyman isn't long for this world and may take the Boltons with him Wylis is heir and is safe at White Harbor. Cousin marlon runs the garrison. Wylis could always have more children.

House Bolton: Roose and Walda can still have kids and there is always Ramsay.

House Reed: Howland, Meera and Jojen. Lets hope there are more Reeds out there!

House Mormont: Thank god for the she-bears. Otherwise the north is really lacking in noble ladies. Maege is the old head of the house. Alysane has two kids, a boy and a girl. There are also Lyra, Jorelle and the most bad ass Lyanna.

Stark: Sadly is in better shape than most northern houses with Sansa, Arya, and Rickon. Bran cannot have children. Jon Snow counts too I guess.

Then there are a few other houses like the Flints, Norrey, Lockes etc... but we know very little about them.

So its not just who ends up with the Dredfort... but who will end up with just about all the northern castles???

Here are my guesses:

Hornwood: Laurence Snow (possibly with a Glover as de facto til Snow comes of age)

The Last Hearth: House Thenn (Alys Karstark and Thenn)

Barrowtown: (Roose Ryswell - consolidating with Ryswell lands note the Ryswells do not have a proper castle)

Karhold: Harrion Karstark

Torren's Sq: Eddara Tallhart

Deepwood Motte: Stays House Glover

White Harbor: Stays Manderly

Bear Island: Stays Mormont

That leaves castle Cerwyn and the Dreadfort to fill.

I'd have to imagine even in the north (or maybe especially in the north) they won't kill Roose's unborn son. He could ward with another Lord for a time and then be allowed to take over when he comes of age.

I guess there are a lot of castles to fill, wouldn't surprise me if many went to wildlings.

The greatjon has other sons i think and some brothers as well

[family duty Hodor]

Hodor.

Hodor will be the lord of the Dreadfort. He will rename it the Hodorfort. So he will actually be the Lord of the Hodorfort. And Hodorfort will be one of the Norths Strongest bases. Hodor!

Hodor!

[Batman]

Blood relation are not a nessacity, they are just sometimes helpful. What was it Stannis said? If his lords would not take orders from Davos then he will make new lords. The Freys started out as nothing and rose to become the most powerful bannermen of the Riverlands.

They could give it to Rickon if he doesnt take over Winterfell, they could give it to Arya (possibly with Gendry) or they could give it to a loyal man of little standing. If there is a enough backing, new lords can work.

[MagnusPrime]

I say it is time to create a new cadet branch of house Stark.

Send fat walda back to walder with a message stating that her and her child should give up on any thought of claiming a piece of the North. If either one of them attempts to set foot into the North again then they will not be shown any mercy. This talk of warding the Bolton heir is ludicrous. The family has once again proven themselves to be worthy of nothing but the harshest punishment. Sparing their live but stripping them of titles and land is more than just.

[James Arryn]

This thread has really gone off the rails.

You're all distracting from the wonder that is Happyfort.

[The Great Walrus]

Hopefully left as a decaying ruin to show what happens when you betray the lords of winter.

[SnowStorm]

I hope the baby Fat Walda is carrying is the first of many little Boltons to come.

[The Great Walrus]

I hope the baby Fat Walda is carrying is the first of many little Boltons to come.

No... please by the old gods and the new no. :bawl:

[TheWizard]

Firstly, the issue is when, not if.

The Boltons will get killed off. Root and stem, this time.

As for what happens to their lands?

Tormund of House Giantsbane happens, I reckon. Or even more appropriately, if he survives, Mance of House Rayder. Given his interaction with the storyline of the Boltons in Dance, I think that will be a very real possibility. Plus he was a King before, so getting the lands of one of the most powerful Houses in the North would be quite appropriate, as he would actually know what to do with it, unlike Tormund who would just piss his wealth away on booze and women.

i like this idea Tormund getting wasted in the dreadfort banging some bears. I love it

[Gorubahn]

Yeah, I don't know who GRRM thought he was fooling with the Roose Bolton betrayal. I'm no Agatha Christie, but I was calling that one pretty much immediately... his name rhymes with "noose", he's lord of the evilscaryhouse and his sigil is a man whose skin has been ripped off... hmmm... a bad guy, perhaps? XD

[Winter's Ghost]

Well, I do want House Bolton to become extinct and I'm perfectly fine with Fat Walda and the the baby dying. I wouldn't mind it going to any loyal Stark bannerman or a Wilding house, as long as there is no Boltons.

[TheWizard]

Ramsay is heir to the Dreadfort only if Walda doesn't give birth to a son. Legitimized bastards come after trueborn kids in the line of succession.

really? dosnt that defeat the purpose of a legitimized heir?? Im probaly wrong tho

[AlQohoric]

I hope the baby Fat Walda is carrying is the first of many little Boltons to come.

:cheers:

[Mini Ghost]

Ramsay is heir to the Dreadfort only if Walda doesn't give birth to a son. Legitimized bastards come after trueborn kids in the line of succession.

really? dosnt that defeat the purpose of a legitimized heir?? Im probaly wrong tho

**********

I really thought that once the bastards are letimized they are considered to be in the front run for lordship. Consider Jon Snow. Robb legit him b/c he did not want Sansa to get Winterfell (only after he thought all his brothers were killed).

[Lion of Judah]

Can an overlord sieze land and title from his under lords?