Quiet Isle Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I want to understand LF more. we're left wanting with respect to why he came into these good folks lives, and who his parents were. there has to be some major dysfunction there to create a son who acts like he does. why can't he just find a good life and relax. there has to be a reason why he is so obsessed with Cat, yes i know all that stuff about him having grown up with them, and he loved her, and it's unrequited, and he gets back at it with cat, and lysa and sansa... but who is he? where did that come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I'd say it was being beaten by Brandon Stark in the duel that made Littlefinger the way he was. I'm assuming he was always intelligent, but it seemed he'd try and kill every Stark he had to in order to get to Catelyn. That and he's relatively selfish, and some people are just like that.Keep in mind, Littlefinger wasn't raised by his parents. His father knew Hoster Tully and asked him to be fostered at Riverrun. He was there most of his childhood under the tutelage of people like Hoster and Brynden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Night's Prince Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I feel that he has a grudge against all the major Houses due to his upbringing and his status in the world never being able to be equal to theirs. He probably feels that if a king rules over ALL the lands and does nothing to improve the lives of ALL the people within those lands and instead caters to the major Houses and their plights which are insignificant compared to his where he was raised...then there needs to be someone in place who can do the duty instead. I believe he wants to put himself in the position to be that person, but indirectly OR he just wants to disrupt the natural order of everything and watch them burn while he goes and lives somewhere else laughing till he dies. Kind of like the Joker and when Alfred said, "Some men just want to watch the world burn." But he does have a reason for doing so though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R'hllor's Bastard Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I agree with Vargo, I think LF started plotting his current schemes the day Brandon kicked his ass. That and he spent his childhood around filthy rich people who likely constantly reminded him how lowborn he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Isle Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 ok, i get your above posts. why is he fixated on cat? just because she was his first love obsession? lots of folks have one, but they move on. why Cat? there is something extraordinary with her. let's talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Isle Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 I personally think he was drawn to her because SHE KNEW WHO SHE WAS. she had a presence. he liked that. because he didn't have one. there's nothing inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profion Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 He´s mad because he knows he is a superior mind to most lords, but blood made him being traped in his position, if I were him, I would probably be mad too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profion Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 He loved Catelyn, and while it´s true that people tend to get over a childhood fixation, most people aren´t forbidden of this love only because of his blood status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Isle Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 and why WASN'T he raised by his parents? grrm has made a huge deal about how folks got where they are. think sam. we know ALL about why he is at the wall. there's something here about LF that grrm hasn't revealed. why was he with the tully's? why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Isle Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 LF is a mystery. why was he thrown in with the Tullys? we know why theon was with the starks. we know why the stark kids hooked up with jon arryn, KIND OF. but LF? WHY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Isle Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 I HAVE raised three kids to full adulthood. if i had to ship them off for a wardship, there would have to be a damn good reason. why LF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R'hllor's Bastard Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Im trying to get the times right, but could LF have anything to do with starting RR?He was still a "nobody" at that point, but he had full control over Lysa.He pretty much singlehandedly started the WO5Ks, I wonder if he had a hand in RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Night's Prince Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 He loved Catelyn because despite his status and birth, she treated him like a person and a friend anyway. Can't stop loving the person who accepted you for who you are and made you feel normal for the first time ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 LF is a mystery. why was he thrown in with the Tullys? we know why theon was with the starks. we know why the stark kids hooked up with jon arryn, KIND OF. but LF? WHY? Martin was asked about this. He answered that LF's father got to know Hoster Tully during the War of the Ninepenny Kings, they became friends and Hoster took LF as a ward as a favour to LF's father.I HAVE raised three kids to full adulthood. if i had to ship them off for a wardship, there would have to be a damn good reason. why LF?Being raised at Riverrun gave LF a much better education than he could've gotten at the family keep at the Fingers plus a chance to become friend with the Tully kids and other influential persons which is really useful for his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Being raised at Riverrun gave LF a much better education than he could've gotten at the family keep at the Fingers plus a chance to become friend with the Tully kids and other influential persons which is really useful for his career.Plus, he would benefit from a better master-of-arms, Ser Desmond Grell. LF wants Cat in a way similar to Jay Gatsby's desire for Daisy; she represented the opportunity and dream for a glamorous, new life in comparison to the life of his origins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 His parents were probably looking out for him and making sure he went places in life by having him raised at Riverrun. At Riverrun, he gets close to one of the Great Houses with potential for his future skyrocketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R'hllor's Bastard Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 It would be like your kid going to live with Oprah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manderly's Rat Cook Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Well a few things happened to LF. He got to live with a situation that he could never have for himself being too lowborn, he could never be truly one of them. Cat and Lysa did treat him like equals though, which probably gave him the impression that somehow he could have it all.Then there was Cat, the girl he fell in love with, who played games with his feelings. I'm not sure if she was aware of it, but she did. By kissing him etc he probably got the impression that he could 'have her' if he tried hard enough. It's like the typical highschool love story; geeky boy falls in love with superhot girl, but she only sees him as a best friend, and she keeps saying how she wishes the boys she chases were more like him. In the movies the girl eventually falls in love with geeky boy, but in real life that never happens. So cat attracts him, and then pushes him away, only to attract him again. This happens to a lot of people in real life, and it's easy to become a bit obsessive in a situation like that. From my own experience I can tell that the famous hard to get game is almost impossible to play when you're in love with someone, but often happens without trying if you're not. For instance when you see someone as a friend, but find out later he/she wants more, but you have been both too distant and too close in the period before, that the other person can't let go. LF is a person who likes to play games, so he probably got even more caught up in this chasing game, than an average person would. Then there's Lysa, who really wants LF, some people would be pleased by such a devoted girl, but not everyone, it gets boring soon, esplecially for someone who likes to play, like LF. So instead he plays the same game that Cat plays with him with Lysa. Probably partially as a little revenge, and partially for comfort when Cat has hurt him. This messes with Lysa's head as well, and LF finds out how you can control people, and how feelings (his feelings for Cat) are an obstacle in this control game.At this point LF is not evil yet, he's still a desperate boy who wants the girl. So he takes one desperate measure, and challenges Brandon. I think he might have expected to lose, but was hoping that even if he did lose, Cat would be so impressed by his courage that she would love him for it. So even if she still would marry Brandon, he still would've won her heart. Unfortunately this doesn't happen, she doesn't even visit him after's he's wounded, this is the big shock that makes him the cold man he is. He's learned that feelings win you nothing, but you can make excellent use of other people's feelings.To make it even worse, Hoster doesn't even let Lysa Marry him, although she's pregnant, and sends him back to the Fingers. Everything he thought he had is taken away from him.So, why did he never let go of Cat? Cat stands for everything he ever wanted, but couldn't have. The castle, the wealth, the girl. So from that day on he starts working on getting all he ever wanted. He gets the castle, and the wealth and then he takes Cat's sister, and later her daughter. Why is Sansa interesting while Lysa wasn't (even when she wat still pretty). The same reason that Cat was interesting. Sansa doesn't want him, they both know that. But Sansa is even better than Cat, because at this moment she's a pawn in his play, and quite powerless to do anything about it. Yet still she has the power to refuse him, which makes her a challenge. He wants her, but I don't think he'll ever rape her, because he wants to win her. He wants to play and play, until he gets what he wants without forcing her. LF is a brilliant mind-game player, he likes to see what happens if you steer people in a certain direction. He makes people destroy themselves, like Cercei. And now he's playing a game with Sansa, where he's making her completely dependant on him, and gives and takes whatever is needed to make her love him. I don't think he will succeed, but I think that's his plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I'm getting kind of tired of LF being portrayed as some poor, downtrodden peasant who rose "despite it all". LF was born a noble, albeit not of the highest circle, and he got his panties in a bunch because the world didn't bow to his will. He's a selfish, twisted but brilliant man - not some Robin-Hood-in-the-rough out on a social equality quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blisscraft Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Martin was asked about this. He answered that LF's father got to know Hoster Tully during the War of the Ninepenny Kings, they became friends and Hoster took LF as a ward as a favour to LF's father.Being raised at Riverrun gave LF a much better education than he could've gotten at the family keep at the Fingers plus a chance to become friend with the Tully kids and other influential persons which is really useful for his career.Plus, he would benefit from a better master-of-arms, Ser Desmond Grell. LF wants Cat in a way similar to Jay Gatsby's desire for Daisy; she represented the opportunity and dream for a glamorous, new life in comparison to the life of his origins.This above are the best I've seen. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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