Poppa Chase Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I know that nearly everybody will be a secret Targaryen and I don't like these, but somehow I feel too that the Tattered Prince is actually a Targaryen, me too made a thread about this before (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/121196-the-tattered-prince-is-the-blood-of-dragon/). Aerion's son Maegor born about 232, the Tattered is described as well past 60, so in my opinion he can even be Maegor.I've yet to see a reason against this. People just really hate the idea of more Targeryens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I've yet to see a reason against this. People just really hate the idea of more Targeryens. Which is just nuts. These books are mainly about 2 families, the Starks and the Targaryens. All 5 short stories are about the Targaryens, and more than half of TWOIAF is dedicated to details on every Targ king. Fans on this forum really 'hating' the idea of anything else coming up that is related to the Targs are quite blind as to the subject of the books. GET OVER IT PEOPLE and just let discussion happen whether you 'hate' the way the story is going or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Mando Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Hes called prince because the magisters of pentos wanted him tobe princeof pentos, but instead he went into exile (they sacrificed the three anterior princes or so) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanset Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Hes called prince because the magisters of pentos wanted him to be prince of pentos, but instead he went into exile (they sacrificed the three anterior princes or so) We don't know his name so he can be a pentoshi prince and aTargaryen prince at the same time if his mother was pentoshi and his father a Targaryen (descendant of Aerion). I like the idea of more Targaryens, it's interesting. Also, Marwyn and Melisandre have their theories of being secret Targaryens. ETA: Quaithe = Shiera, another theory.Ygritte had been kissed by fire [Jon=fire]; the red priestess was fire [dragon=fire made flesh], and her hair was blood and flame. [fire and blood] ETA: The link to the theory: S+B=Melisandre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Blackfyre IV Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 His meeting place he chooses to meet Quintyn is what really made me suspicious, the purple lotus funny name has many meanings and the old woman (Zahrina) the Prince trusts so much to host the meeting has an outfit on that has Golden company skulls on it could this actually be his mother ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Eight of the nine Free Cities are old Valyrian colonies. A lot of people in those cities, especially the nobility and the upper classes (read: dudes most likely to be voted into leadership), are of Valyrian descent, meaning they could feasibly have Valyrian physical features including hair and eye color. Different dialects of Valyrian are also spoken throughout the Free Cities, so it isn't a big deal that this guy speaks Valyrian. Not everyone is a secret Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The silver dragon Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Even if he is a discendendant of Aerion, he has maximum a drop of targaryen blood. Aerion died what, 60 years prior AGoT? way more than dany has considering that aerion's wife daenora father was also targaryen. and a far better claim then dany to. tattered prince is above 60 year's old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The silver dragon Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Eight of the nine Free Cities are old Valyrian colonies. A lot of people in those cities, especially the nobility and the upper classes (read: dudes most likely to be voted into leadership), are of Valyrian descent, meaning they could feasibly have Valyrian physical features including hair and eye color. Different dialects of Valyrian are also spoken throughout the Free Cities, so it isn't a big deal that this guy speaks Valyrian. Not everyone is a secret Targaryen. this man does not speak the bastardized version that is common in essos, though. he speak's classic (which is taught to targaryen's), and it would be a shity company tongue if everyone knew what they were saying. i think being a secret targ add's to his character and tie's up some loose end's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 this man does not speak the bastardized version that is common in essos, though. he speak's classic (which is taught to targaryen's), and it would be a shity company tongue if everyone knew what they were saying. i think being a secret targ add's to his character and tie's up some loose end's. I don't think it's out of the ordinary for a highborn person to know "proper" Valyrian. Just like there's a "queen's English" upper-class variation of the English language along with numerous other dialects and accents. Sorry but a guy who's probably of general Valyrian descent looking and talking like someone of general Valyrian descent does not make him a Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Reckoner Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 He is not a secret Targ he is just a Targ that knows hes a Targ and not na secret Targ, Urgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The silver dragon Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I don't think it's out of the ordinary for a highborn person to know "proper" Valyrian. Just like there's a "queen's English" upper-class variation of the English language along with numerous other dialects and accents. Sorry but a guy who's probably of general Valyrian descent looking and talking like someone of general Valyrian descent does not make him a Targaryen. he talk's like a valyrian high noble. (which a targaryen prince fall's into this category.) is it possible that he is just some random noble valyrian? yes did you provide conclusive evidence to debunk the theory? no do we have any hard evidence that debunks this theory? also no is it possible that he's maegor? totally. until it can be proven one way or another. i say he's maegor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 is it possible that he's maegor? totally. It really is not. Maegor Targaryen was born in 232 and was still a baby when Aegon V came to the throne in 233. We know from the World book that the Tattered Prince was named the prince of Pentos in 262 and from ADWD that this was when he was 23 years old, putting his birth in 239 or 238, still making him "past 60" in 300 the way he's described in ADWD. So Maegor is too old to be the Tattered Prince and the Tattered Prince is too old to be a direct descendant of Maegor. ... Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow's eye in the sky Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 By the logic of the OP, I might as well sugest that Lyseni (or at least the landed elite) are a colony made entirely of secret Targs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 By the logic of the OP, I might as well sugest that Lyseni (or at least the landed elite) are a colony made entirely of secret Targs Don't give them any ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Which is just nuts. These books are mainly about 2 families, the Starks and the Targaryens. All 5 short stories are about the Targaryens, and more than half of TWOIAF is dedicated to details on every Targ king. Fans on this forum really 'hating' the idea of anything else coming up that is related to the Targs are quite blind as to the subject of the books. GET OVER IT PEOPLE and just let discussion happen whether you 'hate' the way the story is going or not.It's not nuts to not want more secret Targs at all because if there were dozens of secret Targaryens running around it would be stale, lazy, boring writing on GRRM's part.Obviously the Targs were at one point a prolific dynasty and there is the possibility of dozens of bastard children to be roaming around Westeros. However, I think people are definitely just in feeling that it's lazy writing if all the characters of mysterious origins wind up being Targaryens. It's been done with Bloodraven, it's been done with Maester Aemon, it's been done with f!Aegon (even if turns out to be untrue) and of course, with Jon Snow. At what point does 'secret Targ' stop being surprising and start being predictable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The silver dragon Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 It really is not. Maegor Targaryen was born in 232 and was still a baby when Aegon V came to the throne in 233. We know from the World book that the Tattered Prince was named the prince of Pentos in 262 and from ADWD that this was when he was 23 years old, putting his birth in 239 or 238, still making him "past 60" in 300 the way he's described in ADWD. So Maegor is too old to be the Tattered Prince and the Tattered Prince is too old to be a direct descendant of Maegor. ... Sorry. point taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 ET TU TATTERS?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmnomnomPomelo Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 It really is not. Maegor Targaryen was born in 232 and was still a baby when Aegon V came to the throne in 233. We know from the World book that the Tattered Prince was named the prince of Pentos in 262 and from ADWD that this was when he was 23 years old, putting his birth in 239 or 238, still making him "past 60" in 300 the way he's described in ADWD. So Maegor is too old to be the Tattered Prince and the Tattered Prince is too old to be a direct descendant of Maegor. ... Sorry. If I remember well then we cold read the "Tattered Prince was 23 when left Pentos" thing in Quentyn's chapter and it can't be taken for 100% sure. And "well past 60" means at least 65 to me, not 61. But who knows? Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I think the tattered is the former good brother of illyrio As has already been pointed out, Tatters is over sixty. If Illyrio and Tatters are related, my guess would be that Tatters is Illyrio's good father. Tatters left Pentos ~40 years ago at age 23. At that age he could have been married with small children. Illyrio married his first wife ~20 years ago. If Illyrio's first wife was Tatters sister she would have been ~40, hardly the age of a maiden. However, if she was Tatter's daughter she would have been ~20 years old, which is a much more likely age for a maiden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 What we get about the Tattered Prince in ADwD is only third hand rumors, though. Quentyn tells us what the Ser Archibald (or was it Gerris, I don't remember) had heard from another Windblown, who also did not get the story from the Tattered Prince himself. I'd not be surprised if the age of the Prince by the time of his exile is wrong. The idea that the Prince was Illyrio's brother-in-law makes little sense in regards to the time line. For that we would have to assume that Illyrio was already respected enough in 262 AC to have been married to his first wife, the cousin of the Prince of Pentos. But that marriage would only have been the culmination of his and Varys' rise to power. If that had already happened in 262 AC, Varys and Illyrio would have essentially done nothing until after Duskendale, and that makes little to me. Varys and Illyrio would also have to be 20-25 in 262 AC, which would make them a little bit too old in 298 AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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