Why does everyone think Jon would have to burn the WF weirwoods in order to accept Stannis' offer?

[The Sunset King]

Mesliandre might have been very keen on telling Jon about R'hllor during that converstation for several reasons. One is that she may have thought it was an opportune time to do so, and she may believe that Jon has some kind of special fate, like Davos, that is directly tied to Stannis and is even more important than individual Northman nobles.

Melisandre views Jon as some kind of superb ally for Stannis. She has repeatedly offered him advice and has tried to entice him to create shadows to destroy mutual enemies. Perhaps Melisandre believed that he would become even more uniquely useful to Stannis's cause if he took up R'hllor. Therefore, she attempted to tie the religious angle to what was originally Stannis's purely political objective. When she realized Jon was unlikely to covert any time soon, she dropped the subject but continuing working with him on their shared objectives. Stannis allowed her to say what she wanted, perhaps not fully understanding the bond that many have for religious concepts or traditions, believing it of little importance.

Whatever precisely occurred with that offer, it seems quite unlikely that Stannis will make any serious effort at religious conversion in the North or mess with the weirwoods now. Part of the reason why Melisandre could ever gain so much power with him is that he lacked sufficient support early in the war to carry out his cause through normal martial means. Had some major houses thrown support to him early on, he would be much less influenced by her and the Queen's men.

[LordBloodraven]

Has anyone considered the possibility that Stannis was testing Jon and that saying yes might have been considered the wrong answer.

Test him for what? Jon said no and he was pissed

[Titus Andronicus]

No offense, but why is this still going? It's a pretty cut and dry thing: Mel and Stannis DID intend for Jon to burn the Weirwood trees in order to accept the deal. To become a Stark, Jon would have to forsake the Gods of the Starks. He explicitly thinks this, and then immediately reconnects with Ghost and decides against it.

[maesterted]

I think Stannis would not have it any other way. Mel offered up a technicality in which an oath made to false gods should not be respected. Jon couldn't have both. Either the old gods are false Jon could have Winterfell and the godswood would burn or Jon believes in the old gods in which he must honour his oaths. This is Stannis after all. So i do believe he would make Jon burn the godswood because that's the kind of man Stannis is.

[Summer is Ending]

No offense, but why is this still going? It's a pretty cut and dry thing: Mel and Stannis DID intend for Jon to burn the Weirwood trees in order to accept the deal. To become a Stark, Jon would have to forsake the Gods of the Starks. He explicitly thinks this, and then immediately reconnects with Ghost and decides against it.

Mel wanted him to anyways, that's definite and as Sunset King points out she's very keen on getting close to Jon, indeed almost everything she does in Dance is aimed at tying him to her.

Ramsay Gimp is right though, Stannis never says it anything about it himself and when he talks of giving Winterfell to Karstark he is passing over two queen's men to do it and singling Karstark out as a 'good northman'. Would Arnolf lie and say he'd take the red god? You'd have to say so and unfortunately there's really nothing to say either way. Closest we get is a passage from Asha.

So far as Asha knew, the gods of the Karstarks were the old gods of the north, gods they shared with the Wulls, the Norreys, the Flints, and the other hill clans. She wondered if Lord Arnolf had come to view the burning at the king’s behest, that he might witness the power of the red god for himself.

I always thought it was pretty obvious it was what Stannis demanded as well. Now I don't know.

[LordBloodraven]

Mel wanted him to anyways, that's definite and as Sunset King points out she's very keen on getting close to Jon, indeed almost everything she does in Dance is aimed at tying him to her.

Ramsay Gimp is right though, Stannis never says it anything about it himself and when he talks of giving Winterfell to Karstark he is passing over two queen's men to do it and singling Karstark out as a 'good northman'. Would Arnolf lie and say he'd take the red god? You'd have to say so and unfortunately there's really nothing to say either way. Closest we get is a passage from Asha.

So far as Asha knew, the gods of the Karstarks were the old gods of the north, gods they shared with the Wulls, the Norreys, the Flints, and the other hill clans. She wondered if Lord Arnolf had come to view the burning at the king’s behest, that he might witness the power of the red god for himself.

I always thought it was pretty obvious it was what Stannis demanded as well. Now I don't know.

I think he changed his mind when he realized how foolish his demands were. Nobody knows R'hllor, the alien god in the North and he knew by that time that winning the homage of the northern lords wouldn't be easy

[jarl the climber]

Test him for what? Jon said no and he was pissed

I'm not sure. Stannis offered him Winterfell and a bueatiful wife as well, Princess Valla. Yes he did seem to hector Jon about for a time but Mel seemed to imply that Stannis did not bother to hector lesser men about their foibles. He tended to ignore them. Mel actually thought it was positive that Stannis had threatened to behead Jon on several occasions. Even with Jons refusal he still included him in his counsels and it was Jons plan that he adopted when he marched on Winterfell.

Cleary we can infer that Mel saw Jon and perhaps Valla as being important. I can't remeber off the top of my head but she seemed to make a point of having soming interaction with Sam around the time he was plotting to make Jon Lord Commander. She seemed very open minded towards Jon, she wanted to gain his trust but she did not really indicate what sort of role she saw him in beyond the offer that was made in ASOS and a lot has happened since then however. She did try to reach out to him by using Mance to rescue Arya in order to let him keep his vows. Whether this is a trojan horse to remove Jon from the Watch, or Mel is just playing things by ear at this point is hard to say.

I think it is fair to say that If Jon had taken Stannis's offer it would have probaly been disasterous. Probaly Mel and Stannis realise this by now and are following his lead to an extent. The exception is Mances mission in which Mel sucseeded in having Jon indirectly involve himself in the plot to kidnap Arya.

[Bolivar]

Some people like to cite the weirwood burning as the reason why Jon didn't do it because they want to think that Jon will eventually become King of all Westeros as Rhaegar's son, maybe also King in the North under Robb's Will. They want to leave the option open that Jon would accept nobility and power under some circumstances, preferably the circumstances they favor to see in the story, but not others.

It's false. Jon was going to accept the offer, weirwood burning or no. But when Ghost returned, everything that went into his character at that point came back to him and he realized that he couldn't do it because it would require him to foreswear his vows.

It was one of the most important moments for Jon that lamentably seems to have gone over a lot of people's heads.

[Summer is Ending]

I think he changed his mind when he realized how foolish his demands were. Nobody knows R'hllor, the alien god in the North and he knew by that time that winning the homage of the northern lords wouldn't be easy

That's always possible, the thing is though he never changes what he actually says.

"Say nothing of what we've discussed here today. To anyone. But when you return, you need only bend your knee, lay your sword at my feet, and pledge yourself to my service, and you shall rise again as Jon Stark, the Lord of Winterfell."

-Stannis, pg. 1286

It is not too late to amend your folly, Snow. Take a knee and swear that bastard sword to me, and rise as Jon Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North.”

Stannis never says anything about taking up the red god at any time, it's always that he wants a northman to unite the north as quickly and painlessly as possible. Whatever else you want to say about Stannis the man says what he says what he means. No matter what Mel said about the weirwood, and interestingly enough even she never mentions the heart tree at Winterfell but of burning the weirwoods where Jon swore his vows, it's telling that Stannis never mentions giving the old gods even once for whoever ruled in Winterfell, it was always about the northmen.

And Bolivar, I agree, if he hadn't specifically thought about burning the heart tree in Winterfell there wouldn't be any doubt at all it would be just about his vows.

. . . was forswear his vows again.

And this time it would not be a ruse. To claim his father’s castle, he must turn against his father’s gods.

[maesterted]

It's false. Jon was going to accept the offer, weirwood burning or no. But when Ghost returned, everything that went into his character at that point came back to him and he realized that he couldn't do it because it would require him to foreswear his vows.

Jon never decided on way or another on whether he was going to accept the offer all we know is that he wanted it.

"He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me. it was a hunger inside him, sharp as a dragonglass blade. A hunger... he could feel it. It was food he needed, prey, a red deer that stank of fear or a great elk proud and defiant. He needed to kill and fill his belly with fresh meat and hot dark blood. His mouth began to water with the thought."

But he was never certain until ghost came and whether he would have chosen to accept the offer is never made clear. He does think about the old gods.

"I have no right, he thought. Winterfell belongs to the old gods."

i think he sees ghost as a sign from the old gods.

"Red eyes, Jon realized, but not like Melisandre’s. He had a weirwood’s eyes. Red eyes, red mouth, white fur. Blood and bone, like a heart tree. He belongs to the old gods, this one."

[Ramsay Gimp]

No offense, but why is this still going? It's a pretty cut and dry thing: Mel and Stannis DID intend for Jon to burn the Weirwood trees in order to accept the deal. To become a Stark, Jon would have to forsake the Gods of the Starks. He explicitly thinks this, and then immediately reconnects with Ghost and decides against it.

We're arguing that Jon is mistaken, and that he's taking Mel's friendly suggestion as a demand from Stannis

[Arya Targaryen]

Mel offered up a technicality in which an oath made to false gods should not be respected. Jon couldn't have both. Either the old gods are false Jon could have Winterfell and the godswood would burn or Jon believes in the old gods in which he must honour his oaths.

This.

[the titan of westeros]

Either way taking Winterfell isn't his right it might have been if he wasn't a member of the nights watch and if he hated his family enough to betray them but starks take there vows seriously. If Jon wants to be a real stark any vow he swears to a weirwood must be kept. If he forsakes his vow in order to have his name changed to Stark in my mind that makes him less of a stark than he is. Also his puppy is from the old gods would you forsake the gods that gave you a puppy; only terrorists hate puppies. If you dont have a puppy then the terrorists win.