[ feast spoilers] moon tea

[scipio]

If Marg and the Tyrells really want this marriage consummated, they had better have Tommen proclaim it or have a witness or have a bloody sheet.

yes, that's a sound a idea and fits well . the only thing that works against this is the absence of

blood in the bed "the day after".

maybe when they went out of KL, far from cersei's eyes?

[Westrosi]

But if this were true, wouldn't she be practically bragging the night that it happened? Most people wouldn't believe it since Tommen's so young (and, I am ignorant: can an 8 or 9 year old boy do this???) and most certainly Cersei would not want to believe it because that's her nature. If Marg and the Tyrells really want this marriage consummated, they had better have Tommen proclaim it or have a witness or have a bloody sheet.

there would have to be an unimpechable witness to a bloody sheet (for example, Pycelle, someone not releated to the tyrells) or Tommen (the king, remember) would have to admit to it, which I think he would do in a King's Landing minute, as he is besotted with Marg.

As I see it, IF they did consummate the marriage, either on the wedding night or on one of their jaunts across the countryside, it was done to cement marg's position as his wife, but best kept a secret from everyone/ceresi until ceresi were not in power or no longer queen regent. As such, she wouldn't want to risk becoming pregnant (hence the moon tea).

I could totally see marg saying "tommen, we're man and wife, its ok and right to do this, but we mustn't tell your mother, she wouldn't understand, you see how she is about your training and letting you go to council meetings, so it's our secret."

[Blackstone]

It's been obvious that Lady Merriweather has been somebody's spy in Cersei's counsel. It might be that Lady M is Varys' agent, but I think the simplest explanation is that she is the QoT's agent.

Cersei begins hatching anti-Tyrell plots almost as soon as the book begins and ridiculously takes Lady M into her confidences. Lady M sings the songs that Cersei wants to hear, and while she says to Jaime early on that Lady M only reports back those things she wants the Tyrell's to know, and that would be intelligent, she obviously fails to act on one of those few sensible impulses she had.

Lady M reports on the plot that involves proving that Queen Margaery has been unfaithful to King Tommen. Because Queen Margaery probably lost her maidenhead to a horse, there isn't any good way for her to disprove those allegations -- therefore, trial by combat is really her only option. Then, of course the question of champions arise.

If anyone can champion Margaery, then she is reasonably safe, as Ser Garlan is one of the finest blades in the land. If only a kingsguard can champion her, then she has Loras.

Here, I think it is interesting that Cersei has no trustworthy knowledge regarding Ser Loras' true condition. Aurane Waters provides witness to this, but as he fled when Cersei was imprisoned as did Lady M, it might be that Waters is also a Tyrell agent, or bought by him. It's a measure of Cersei's delusions when she merely regrets Waters' fleeing with her ships and her excitement when she discovers that Lady M has fled the city.

It's not clear to me whether Pycelle has switched allegiences or is merely a dupe himself. Cersei did little but heap scorn on Pycelle and he doubtlessly has no love for her. She also cuts him off at a key moment, where Pycelle seemed to be on the verge of providing an innocent explanation for the moon tea. However, Pycelle does not offer this explanation (or attempt to do so) at the hearing in open court. Perhaps he gave up on Cersei between those two events.

The High Septon is no one's fool and no one's dupe. Clearly he is a pawn with his own will, as LF would say. I doubt that the Tyrell's failed to notice this, as Margaery is a frequent sept goer.

Perhaps both Queens are trapped in the High Septon's trap, but I feel that at least Cersei will escape though both may do so. As above, I don't think that Loras is quite as injured as Cersei beleives. Second, I believe that word of Arys Oakheart will reach kings landing and permit Cersei to appoint unGegorstein to the Kingsguard.

I believe that at least Cersei will escape this time because of the "iron laws" of prophecy in litterature. The first Iron Law is that acting to attempt to forestall the prophecy results in its fulfillment. The second Iron Law is that prophecy is always misconstrued. (See Oedipus Rex on both accounts). Here Cersei clearly is mistaking the Valonquar for Tyrion, when it is actually Jaime, and the younger Queen for Margaery, when it is actually Danerys.

[Westrosi]

Because Queen Margaery probably lost her maidenhead to a horse

this sounds grosser than you meant, I'm sure. lol

Second, I believe that word of Arys Oakheart will reach kings landing and permit Cersei to appoint unGegorstein to the Kingsguard.

I agree this is what she will want to do, and probably will be able to do, but I don't see how she can appt a new kingsguard when she's been dethroned as queen regent and is off the council, effectively.

[Blackstone]

She might not be the regent, but she still is the queen

[Westrosi]

She might not be the regent, but she still is the queen

Why? Surely now that Tommen is King, he is the ruler of Westros; she is merely the "queen mother". When she was Queen Regent, she had the power to rule until Tommen reached the age to rule. She was not Queen Regent under Joff; he was king and the Hand (Tyrion and Tywin) ruled in his stead. If she's been ousted as Regent, the new Regent and/or Tommen and/or the existing Hand (Swyft) will have the power to appoint a new member of the Kingsguard, I believe.

In the last AFFC Ceresi chapter: "The realm is being ruled by Ser Harys Swyft and Grand Maester Pycelle. They have dispatched a raven to Casterly Rock, inviting your uncle to assume the regency."

Unless she somehow retains her status as Queen Regent, which I don't believe she will, I don't think merely being the queen mother will grant her the ability to name a new kingsguard. unless she convinces tommen to name gregor...

[Morrigan]

Is it against the rules here to tell the people who think Margaery is sleeping with Tommen to go play in traffic? For fuck's sake, how retarded can you be.

[Westrosi]

Is it against the rules here to tell the people who think Margaery is sleeping with Tommen to go play in traffic? For fuck's sake, how retarded can you be.

i don't necessarily think it is happening, but I don't think a one shot (forgive the pun) incident can be 100% ruled out.