Will Jaime and Tyrion be dead by the end of the books?

[Mark Antony]

No, I want Lady Stoneheart to hang the Freys responsible for the Red Wedding and I want her to lower her hood and look them in the eyes as they hang so that every last man guilty looks into the face of justice as he dies.

:agree:

[Ser Wun Wun]

Jaime will survive. His dream was about being left to his doom in the bowels of Casterly Rock was eerily similar to Jon's dream about the crypts of Winterfell. I like the idea that both of those dreams mean that Jaime and Jon are destined to play important roles in the Long Night, so I think they are both safe.

However, Tyrion is likely going to die. The most prominent reason for this is that I think he is going to hitch his fortunes to "Aegon's" (not Dany like most would assume given their current proximity to each other). So Tyrion is likely going to sink with that ship imo..

[OberynBlackfyre]

Jaime will survive. His dream was about being left to his doom in the bowels of Casterly Rock was eerily similar to Jon's dream about the crypts of Winterfell. I like the idea that both of those dreams mean that Jaime and Jon are destined to play important roles in the Long Night, so I think they are both safe.

However, Tyrion is likely going to die. The most prominent reason for this is that I think he is going to hitch his fortunes to "Aegon's" (not Dany like most would assume given their current proximity to each other). So Tyrion is likely going to sink with that ship imo..

Well, I think Dany will HAVE to go back to Mereen at some point...soo when it comes to proximity, I think Tyrion is still closer to Dany than he is Aegon. Plus I don't see why people view Aegon as a "sinking ship", why would Dany spurn someone who is ON HER SIDE??

[Ser Wun Wun]

Well, I think Dany will HAVE to go back to Mereen at some point...soo when it comes to proximity, I think Tyrion is still closer to Dany than he is Aegon. Plus I don't see why people view Aegon as a "sinking ship", why would Dany spurn someone who is ON HER SIDE??

I'm not convinced Tyrion will actually meet Dany at all in Meereen...my pet theory at the moment is that he somehow gets one of those the dragons during the battle and takes it back to Aegon (I don't think Tyrion could ride one himself, because of his legs). I think Brown Ben and the Second Sons (without Jorah of course) will help him do it. Maybe the twisted little monkey demon takes the demon road home? :devil:

And I don't think Dany would spurn Aegon, I think he will be the one to either spurn or ultimately betray her. Aegon will probably be neck deep in an alliance with Dorne (maybe even married to Arianne) by the time Dany shows up. And what was the point of Quentyn dying if not to ensure that Dany and the Dornish can't be allies? I can't think of any other reason for his presence in the story if not to set up that conflict.

So Aegon will have to choose between Dany and Dorne, and I think the HotU prophesy (where Dany sees a cloth dragon on poles, then she is called the slayer of lies) makes it clear who he will choose...that's why I think Aegon is screwed in the long run.

[The Lord's Kiss]

LOL no the sister rape part threw me off. I like Tyrion but I must admit he is a bit self absorbed and his mouth gets him into things situations that he has no business being in, but it has also saved him as well. I look forward to him meeting Dany as well, it will be interesting how that plays out. He has to prove his worth because I think she is his way to claiming Casterly Rock from Cersei. Not a fan of Lady Stoneheart at all, I feel like she is one big interruption.

Oh, my bad let me get you that quote.

"What do you have to offer the dragon queen, little man?"

My hate, Tyrion wanted to say. Instead he spread his hands as far as the fetters would allow. "Whatever she would have of me. Sage counsel, savage wit, a bit of tumbling. My cock if she desires it. And the only reward I ask is I might be allowed to rape and kill my sister."

Oh, Tyrion, jealous of Jaime in yet another way.

[David Selig]

Hopefully, they are vile persons and their constant jokes are getting tiresome and repetitive.

[Lion of Judah]

Oh, my bad let me get you that quote.

Oh, Tyrion, jealous of Jaime in yet another way.

LOL, I remember this now.

[OberynBlackfyre]

I'm not convinced Tyrion will actually meet Dany at all in Meereen...my pet theory at the moment is that he somehow gets one of those the dragons during the battle and takes it back to Aegon (I don't think Tyrion could ride one himself, because of his legs). I think Brown Ben and the Second Sons (without Jorah of course) will help him do it. Maybe the twisted little monkey demon takes the demon road home? :devil:

And I don't think Dany would spurn Aegon, I think he will be the one to either spurn or ultimately betray her. Aegon will probably be neck deep in an alliance with Dorne (maybe even married to Arianne) by the time Dany shows up. And what was the point of Quentyn dying if not to ensure that Dany and the Dornish can't be allies? I can't think of any other reason for his presence in the story if not to set up that conflict.

So Aegon will have to choose between Dany and Dorne, and I think the HotU prophesy (where Dany sees a cloth dragon on poles, then she is called the slayer of lies) makes it clear who he will choose...that's why I think Aegon is screwed in the long run.

Plausible, but there are a lot of things not accounted for. How would Tyrion get the dragon? How would he survive the demon road? How would he wrestle away a dragon from Victarion?

Plus, because of the predicament he is in, with promises being made and such, I think Daenerys is his best/ only chance of survival at this point.

[Ser Wun Wun]

Plausible, but there are a lot of things not accounted for. How would Tyrion get the dragon? How would he wrestle away a dragon from Victarion?

Victarion will likely have won the battle at sea before Dany returns to Meereen, so he is going to have to wait around a bit I think. Plenty of time for Tyrion to worm his way into Vic's good graces (such that they are) and then pull one over on the character GRRM has described as being "dumb as a stump". The Imp might get his hands on a certain horn....

How would he survive the demon road?

Plot armor? :drunk:

Plus, because of the predicament he is in, with promises being made and such, I think Daenerys is his best/ only chance of survival at this point.

She can't help him if she is not even in Meereen though (assuming she would help a Lannister at all). There is no telling how long she will be out there with the Dothraki, and Tyrion isn't one to wait around twiddling his thumbs, he will make plans.

And Vic showing up with that horn changes things considerably. Tyrion doesn't have to go begging to a Queen he has never met now, because if he gets that horn (assuming he can figure out what he needs to do with it, and he seems smart enough to do just that) those dragons are his. He could be gone with them before Dany even gets back. That might be just the incentive she needs to finally get her ass out of Meereen too.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

No, I want Lady Stoneheart to hang the Freys responsible for the Red Wedding and I want her to lower her hood and look them in the eyes as they hang so that every last man guilty looks into the face of justice as he dies.

Me too! Me too!!!

I've always thought that the whole "Rains of Castamere" thing was going to turn around and bite Tywin's family on the ass -- they're so proud of wiping out a family and appearing tough that they'll get a chance to experience extinction on their own.

Cersei's and Jaime's destinies are somehow linked, so if she dies, and I think she will, so will he.

GRRM goes on about kinslayers being cursed by gods and men. Tyrion is the most prominent kinslayer in the story, so I'm convinced that he will have to pay a debt for killing Tywin. A life for a life.

I also think that Myrcella and Tommen will be victims of symmetry: Tywin had a Targaryen girl and her younger brother killed so I think some Targ loyalist, or perhaps a Targ him/herself, will kill them to even the score.

I also think that Tommen might be in danger from the Tyrells. If they decide to change sides again the best way to do that might be to hand the Baratheon/Lannister king over to Aegon/Dany/Stannis, whomever.

[hughie]

I believe some major characters will live 'happily ever after' in places other than Westeros. Stannis for example is bound for Asshai with Melisandre. Also making overseas getaways will be a number of midcard characters: Mance, Davos, Sam, Varys etc. Tyrion is another of these potential expats. I think he may well retire to some well-stocked Library in Braavos, where he will live in a comfortable Platonic marital relationship with Sansa, who has escaped from the Vale after killing Littlefinger.

I'm not so sure about Jaime. I feel he may well perish bravely but pointlessly. I don't see him as a major player in the final shoot out. If he survives, he will settle on Tarth with Brienne, and their relationship will be sizzling.

[Danelle]

I can't see Tyrion dying, at least not until the end of the story because, in my opinion, he along with Jon and Dany are the three main characters in the story.

Jon, Jaime and Dany's fate are the most important cliffhangers for the next book.

Also Moqorro had this weird vision about Tyrion, like it or not he will play an important part in the things to come and Tyrion is not like Quentyn.

Killing Eddard has made GRRM known as a writer who does not hesitate kill a manin character.

Don't get me wrong, I like Eddard but he had to die. Cersei planned to sent him to NW, in that case he would serve as the voice of reason and with Jeor Mormont, Donal Noye and Quorin he could actually help the fight against wildlings and Others and yeah, most likely the first thing he would do once he arrived at Castle Black was to tell Jon who his mother is. Meanwhile the Lannisters establish their power without being cruel.Even if Robb and Cat wanted revenge I doubt that Ned would urge them to rebel against Joffrey.

Killing Eddard, made Joffrey a stupid sociopath, forced Robb to became a leader, made Sansa a desperate Lannister prisoner, Arya an angry child, Bran a lost cripple, LF a machiavellian mastermind, e.t.c...

Tyrion can cause a lot of mayhem being alive. If he dies nothing will happen, the only person affected will be Penny, who depends on Tyrion.

Tywin also needed to die. He was there to win the war, he did it. If he had been alive there would be peace. So he was killed and chaos ensued. Kevan replaced Tywin and was actually better than him in many ways but he also had to die in order to maintain chaos.

If the first chapter in WOW is Brienne killing Jaime and burying his body. then I will probably stop reading. There is no reason for him to die. Why introduce his pov in SOS, establish him as a controversial character, trying to redeem himself, only to have him killed?

Jaime making that cryptic comment about Criston Cole, in my opinion is a hint that he will attempt to restore the Targaryens or at least support Dany.

Not to mention that Tyrion cannot die without finding about Tysha and reuniting with Jaime.

Plotwise, killing Tyrion and Jaime offers nothing to the story.

[The Storm Queen]

I've had that same idea except without Tommen and Myrcella. I think those two kids are toast lol. If Jaime survives the story I know for sure it isn't going to be as Lord Lannister, he's gonna travel maybe with Brienne or not.

I am not sure. I am rather sure that all three Lannister silblings are toast but I hope there is a loophole for their kids to avoid the prophecy coming true literally:

- Myrcella will permanently wear a veil ("golden shroud") in order to hide her scars which technically would fullfil the prophecy.

- For Tommen I have the hope that one of his parents manages to remove him from KL before the city falls in one way or another. Jaime maybe could give Tommen to Brienne or something like that who in turn raises him in Tarth thus making Tommen death to the world.

The latter is honestly more wishful thinking but I seriously think that at least Myrcella has a chance of making it

[Lady Sansa Stark]

I can't see Tyrion dying, at least not until the end of the story because, in my opinion, he along with Jon and Dany are the three main characters in the story.

Jon, Jaime and Dany's fate are the most important cliffhangers for the next book.

Also Moqorro had this weird vision about Tyrion, like it or not he will play an important part in the things to come and Tyrion is not like Quentyn.

Killing Eddard has made GRRM known as a writer who does not hesitate kill a manin character.

Don't get me wrong, I like Eddard but he had to die. Cersei planned to sent him to NW, in that case he would serve as the voice of reason and with Jeor Mormont, Donal Noye and Quorin he could actually help the fight against wildlings and Others and yeah, most likely the first thing he would do once he arrived at Castle Black was to tell Jon who his mother is. Meanwhile the Lannisters establish their power without being cruel.Even if Robb and Cat wanted revenge I doubt that Ned would urge them to rebel against Joffrey.

Killing Eddard, made Joffrey a stupid sociopath, forced Robb to became a leader, made Sansa a desperate Lannister prisoner, Arya an angry child, Bran a lost cripple, LF a machiavellian mastermind, e.t.c...

Tyrion can cause a lot of mayhem being alive. If he dies nothing will happen, the only person affected will be Penny, who depends on Tyrion.

Tywin also needed to die. He was there to win the war, he did it. If he had been alive there would be peace. So he was killed and chaos ensued. Kevan replaced Tywin and was actually better than him in many ways but he also had to die in order to maintain chaos.

If the first chapter in WOW is Brienne killing Jaime and burying his body. then I will probably stop reading. There is no reason for him to die. Why introduce his pov in SOS, establish him as a controversial character, trying to redeem himself, only to have him killed?

Jaime making that cryptic comment about Criston Cole, in my opinion is a hint that he will attempt to restore the Targaryens or at least support Dany.

Not to mention that Tyrion cannot die without finding about Tysha and reuniting with Jaime.

Plotwise, killing Tyrion and Jaime offers nothing to the story.

I'm sorry to say this, but that's all in hindsight. I am sure GRRM can come up with tons of reasons to let Jon, Tyrion, Jaime and Daenerys die to serve his plot. We might not like it (though, Daenerys dead, for me it would be good riddance ;) ) but that's not to say that their dead wouldn't or couldn't possibly serve his plot. It's actually more wishful thinking, (really, Tyrion can die just fine without reuniting with Jaime and without meeting Tysha) hoping GRRM won't let your favourite characters die. I mean, I can't really come up with any good reason why Sansa's death could serve the plot or why it would be good for some other characters or the story, but that doesn't mean others can't come up with reasons - most of all GRRM himself. I'd be devastated if she or Arya should die, but I wouldn't stop reading. A Song of Ice and Fire isn't about Sansa or Arya alone.

[Groat]

All the Lannisters are going to die. Sorry to say but Tommen, Myrcella, Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion, they're all dead. They have commited too many crimes against both Stark and Targ to live.

I would love for Tyrion to be a hidden Targ (the mad king actually his father), just so it turns out he never actually was a kinslayer or a kinglsayer.

Jaime's redemption arc is deeply rooted in his guilt for letting Rhaegar die, so defending Rhaegar's son Jon is definitely going to be on his list of things to do before the end.

Danny is the one character who, despite all she's seen, still denies herself certain hard truths. Hmmm sounds like she could use council from someone who is good at giving hard truths.

[Jaime's Wench]

As a writer, I find killing off main characters exceptionally hard from a logistic POV. They're just too darn important to the plot. They have to be in certain places, do certain things, discover certain things, get together with certain others... To turn around and say, "Right, I am going to kill Evelyn now, because that might shock and unsettle a few readers' would create more than a few plot holes for the future. Therefore, I am very reluctant to believe that GRRM is going to go on a Lannister killing spree, or get rid of one or both of the Lannister brothers until the end. They're just too inter-woven with everything else that is going on.

You will also notice how GRRM has stopped killing main characters. In the long run, Eddard wasn't all that important. He was a catalyst, designed from the beginning to be a catalyst and then given lots of padding to deceive us. Jon, Sansa, Jaime, Tyrion, Danaerys etc. are the main pieces in GRRM's game. Take one out, and you might find the story falls apart for the others.

[Danelle]

You will also notice how GRRM has stopped killing main characters. In the long run, Eddard wasn't all that important. He was a catalyst, designed from the beginning to be a catalyst and then given lots of padding to deceive us. Jon, Sansa, Jaime, Tyrion, Danaerys etc. are the main pieces in GRRM's game. Take one out, and you might find the story falls apart for the others.

:agree:

[Mark Antony]

Jon, Sansa, Jaime, Tyrion, Danaerys etc. are the main pieces in GRRM's game. Take one out, and you might find the story falls apart for the others.

I don't see how Jaime is more of a main piece than say..... Bran.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

As a writer, I find killing off main characters exceptionally hard from a logistic POV. They're just too darn important to the plot. They have to be in certain places, do certain things, discover certain things, get together with certain others... To turn around and say, "Right, I am going to kill Evelyn now, because that might shock and unsettle a few readers' would create more than a few plot holes for the future. Therefore, I am very reluctant to believe that GRRM is going to go on a Lannister killing spree, or get rid of one or both of the Lannister brothers until the end. They're just too inter-woven with everything else that is going on.

You will also notice how GRRM has stopped killing main characters. In the long run, Eddard wasn't all that important. He was a catalyst, designed from the beginning to be a catalyst and then given lots of padding to deceive us. Jon, Sansa, Jaime, Tyrion, Danaerys etc. are the main pieces in GRRM's game. Take one out, and you might find the story falls apart for the others.

Considering how many POVs there are, I don't think the death of any POV character, including the major ones, would disturb the plot if the characters were to die at the end of a complete story arc. For this reason I don't see many major deaths in TWOW, but I'm sure there will be many deaths in ADOS because the herd needs to be thinned so there can be some resolution of the political and family conflicts. There are still at least six people who want or could take the iron throne (Tommen, Myrcella, Aegon, Dany, Euron, Stannis and possibly Jon) and the conflicts among the Lannister, Martell, Baratheon and Stark families to be resolved.

I would guess that four out of five of the contenders for the throne will die (there could be a marriage that might save a life) and that one or two POVs from the major families will die as well (I'm including advisors in that count, so we could lose Davos, Mel (I hope), Arianne or Areo Hotah (although with that axe his chances of survival are pretty good), Jon Connington (he seems doomed), etc. It seems almost certain that Cersei will die, and there's a good chance one of her children will die as well, Stannis, imo, is doomed, as is Jon, because there's no second act for saviors. So, yeah, I'm expecting the body count to be high, and it would not be at all surprising to me if Tyrion and Jaime bought the farm along with many others.

[Waarg]

GRRM has said several times that Tyrion is his favorite character, but one time he also added "That doesn't mean he's safe." Maybe he was just trying to mess with us, but he still SAID it!!

This might not mean anything, but I saw that Peter Dinklage's contract was for 6 seasons...since there'll be roughly 7-10 seasons, and if he doesn't renew his contract....

Maybe I'm just being silly. it probably doesn't mean anything.