Theory on seasons

[Iceborn]

We know the the world of Westeros is on a planet slightly larger than out own, bearing this in mind I have a theory on how the seasons came to be out of balance. If the cause is a eccentricity in the orbit then this would explain why the whole world has winter / summer at the same time, so that summer is actually lots of short or warm winters that appears to be summer as the planet's orbit has changed. Now the question is why is the orbit not stable? the seasons are not regular so we cannot assume a naturally unstable cause, the loss of a moon however might explain this. The dothraki believe that the dragons appeared out of a moon, which no longer exists, then the CotF smashed the land bridge forming the step stones. the only fat missing is when dragons appeared, are they a result of the children destroying a moon to protect themselves, or do they pre- date this. Any help with dates / questioning this is appreciated.

[Santa]

I doubt martin put as much astrophysical thought into this

[Dornish Whine]

It is mighty hard to find a rational scientific reason for the variance in seasons. I think GRRM said that he had not considered the layout of the solar system or the scientific reasons for the seasons. It is purely a fantasy world.

However... if we must strain to find reason, then the destruction of the moon could be a catalyst for a wild orbit or, better yet unstable axial precession. I do not think that the COTF and their hammer were necessarily linked to the destruction of the moon, but I could be persuaded. IIRC, the hammer was in the form of waves that could have been caused by chunks of the moon falling into the ocean, so that sounds somewhat plausible. But I am hesitant to say that those who sing the song of Earth could influence other heavenly bodies.

As long as I am speculating, perhaps the meteorite that gave its ore to the sword Dawn was involved in the destruction of the moon. Dragons could have been brought to 'Earthos' from space... their eggs being essentially rocks until properly incubated in blood and fire, they could survive space travel.

ETA - I have no idea how the timelines match up to this out-there and largely unnecessary theory. ;)

[Green Dreamin]

Its just a fantasy world. Theres dragons and unicorns and others and wargs and greenseers and shadow binders and crazy seasons.

[Ser Dylen of the Green Oak]

Considering GRRM said that there was no logic or reason to the seasons other than magic, I don't think that's it's really something we can reason or formulate. It's summer when it's summer. It's winter when it's winter. The whys and wherefores don't really seem to exist.

[Larry of the Lawn]

If there he didn't do an entire astronomically accurate layout of the solar system with a scientifically backed model that explains the seasons I'm not reading any more of these books. That's just lazy writing, folks. I expect more from a $9 paperback than that.

[Tall-Talker]

Maybe it's meant as a balance. The Others reign during the winters and Man reigns during the summers. i.e long summers = long winters.

Man just forgot that.

[hughie]

It must be very difficult in a book with multiple plotlines to keep track of the dates in each character's story. It would be much simpler to have long seasons for the purpose of background descriptions. I think the Westeros seasons are purely for the author's convenience. He's got enough to think about without worrying about keeping the weather consistent at different latitudes.

[DaveSnow House Stark]

If there he didn't do an entire astronomically accurate layout of the solar system with a scientifically backed model that explains the seasons I'm not reading any more of these books. That's just lazy writing, folks. I expect more from a $9 paperback than that.

I love sarcasm

[maesterted]

Believe it or not its not the earths orbit that accounts for winter and summer its the fact that the earth is tilted at an angle from the vertical. The orbit could mean something but since this planet only has one sun i dont see anything that would indicate an irregular orbit even a destruction of a moon. I have a pet theory on this and its just speculation with no backing from the text. I live near one of the great lakes and true winter does not come here until like January becouse of the fact that when water freezes it releases a bit of energy. Similarly I think thats the case with a production of an other it releases a whole lot of heat into the world prolonging the summer. however when they feel they have enough soldiers they stop production and similarly to us by mid January in Ontario winter comes. This doesn't explain the 8000 years in between in which no others were seen but i do need something to think about while im in chemistry class.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Plus having the long seasons adds weight to "Winter is Coming"

[Silent Wolf]

I would say the axial tilt is instable, cause of magic. Perhaps the sturgle between the others and whoever lives at the south pole (dragons?)

Bran mentions a curtain of light far in the north, in a vision in aGoT. Perhaps tehre is always day (in summer) like the midnight sun on our planet, but much longer. And because the others cannot bare light, they only come in long winters, when it is always dark (like the Long Night).

And when Asshai is near the south pole, there will be always night, during the summer on the northern hemisphere. Perhaps thats why it is called Asshai by the shadow.

[stffnt0]

I fully agree that the seasons are controlled by some sort of magic. Even if you CAN explain it with science then you still have to think about the fact that this is GRRM's world, and why would he let the seasons and weather in general be controlled by something as dull as astrology? It's a fantasy world, the same natural laws that count in our universe don't have to count in this fantasy world. I came across this quote in 'The Hedge Knight'.

Dunk had heard the story half a hundred times, how Ser Arlan had been just a little boy when his grandfather had taken him to King’s Landing, and how they’d seen the last dragon there the year before it died. She’d been a green female, small and stunted, her wings withered. None of her eggs had ever hatched. “Some say King Aegon poisoned her,” the old man would tell. “The third Aegon that would be, not King Daeron’s father, but the one they named Dragonbane, or Aegon the Unlucky. He was afraid of dragons, for he’d seen his uncle’s beast devour his own mother. The summers have been shorter since the last dragon died, and the winters longer and crueler.

This quote means that the dragons somehow have an influence on the seasons in Westeros. Dragons make the summers longer and the winters milder. I think the white walkers may have the opposite influence on the seasons. They make the winters last longer and the winters crueler.

But stil.. If the white walkers conquer Westeros the winter will never end. That doesn't mean the summer will never end if the dragons return to Westeros? Or does it? Has anyone got something on this?

Perhaps the system of the seasons are just really, really complex. Magic works in mysterious ways and influences the weather in mysterious ways, which is probably why we will never be able to tell exactly how the system works. I don't even think GRRM knows how the system works.

Bran mentions a curtain of light far in the north, in a vision in aGoT. Perhaps tehre is always day (in summer) like the midnight sun on our planet, but much longer. And because the others cannot bare light, they only come in long winters, when it is always dark (like the Long Night).

And when Asshai is near the south pole, there will be always night, during the summer on the northern hemisphere. Perhaps thats why it is called Asshai by the shadow.

I don't agree with you on this. The winters never reach Dorne so Dorne would have to be closer to the equator than the rest of Westeros and therefore further away from the North Pole... which means that the North Pole is closest to the North. Even if what you say is true then it's just weird that Dorne is warmer than The North when it's not winter.

But again, I don't think it works like it does on Earth. It's a fantastic world. The seasons and the weather are probably just things you have to accept like you have to accept the fact that magical creatures such as dragons exist.

[Dryhtscipe]

This would all be fascinating except that GRRM has, unless I'm mistaken, already stated that there's a magical cause.

So finding a scientific one would appear to be entirely pointless.

[Aerys Blackfyre]

the loss of a moon however might explain this. The dothraki believe that the dragons appeared out of a moon, which no longer exists

this is indeed fascinating! like in the film The Time Machine

about the rest of your theory, sorry but it's wrong... in fact, the seasons issue concerns just Westeros, and doesn't affect the rest of the world of Ice and fire (Essos, Sothoros,...); see here

edit: corrected link after Dryhtscipe observation

[Dryhtscipe]

this is indeed fascinating! like in the film The Time Machine

about the rest of your theory, sorry but it's wrong... in fact, the seasons issue concerns just Westeros, and doesn't affect the rest of the world of Ice and fire (Essos, Sothoros,...); see here

Err. Two things... One, your link just goes to the very bottom of that wiki page. And two, there's nothing on said wiki page that says that. Quite the opposite:

Westeros and Essos both experience extremely long seasons of varying length,

[Aerys Blackfyre]

there's nothing on said wiki page that says that. Quite the opposite:

ok you're right, Westeros and Essos, but it doesn't say anything about the entire planet

[The Dornishman's Wife]

ok you're right, Westeros and Essos, but it doesn't say anything about the entire planet

Well yeah, we don't have climate data for the whole world so such an entry in the wiki would have no basis... in either direction. That doesn't mean that the rest of the world doesn't experience irregular seasons though, just that we don't know for sure (I'm personally pretty sure that there isn't a border "magical seasons begin here" though).

[Aerys Blackfyre]

(I'm personally pretty sure that there isn't a border "magical seasons begin here" though).

I believe there's something like that... it's been discussed in another thread... the more you get closer to the Wall, the more the climate is influenced by the massive amount of magic that a 700 feet high/300 miles long enchanted structure produces

[King of Winters]

There's a Black Crow theory that the reason the seasons are messed up is because of The Wall. You can't make something that big, made of ice and magic without it effecting something.