Is Jon Snow about to open is 3rd eye?

[Black Wolf Smith]

And you would be correct, it may not be spelled out in the text that the 3EC is Bloodraven, but it's as good as.

I would guess that you believe that Dany and Jon will join forces, and ride the Dragons and defeated the evil Others, get married and rule the 7Kingdoms in peace and harmony? :bs:

Sorry I don't see it. I not sure if I see Dany being the Hero of Fire, but Jon will be the hero of Ice. :commie:

[Melonica Stormborn]

IIRC Tyryan Lannister has the theory that 3EC = Bran, so its Bran guilding Bran towards his own goals.

And the last scene of this book would be Bran waking up in the changed future after he succeeds tweaking the past to get to the future he woke up in. :D

Although I couldn't believe it myself, it is an interesting thought.

[Mikkel]

I would guess that you believe that Dany and Jon will join forces, and ride the Dragons and defeated the evil Others, get married and rule the 7Kingdoms in peace and harmony? :bs:

Sorry I don't see it. I not sure if I see Dany being the Hero of Fire, but Jon will be the hero of Ice. :commie:

Please don't put words in my mouth, that's ridiculous and insulting. I said nothing of the sort. All I said was that the Three-eyed Crow is Bloodraven.

[wighty]

It does seem imo that BR does like to connect with his "pawns"when there is a life altering moment. I say "pawns" cause he seems he has use for them but all for a different purpose.

Jojen to get Bran.(some have speculated to become Jojen Paste)

Bran to get Jon?and for Bran to become the last greenseer

Jon to ???

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I definitely agree with this. It seems like some sort of trauma or physical hardship is necessary to awaken a third eye. Bran's fall, Jojen's illness, Arya's blindness. Jon's assassination attempt might be the thing that does it for him.

Which brings up an idea I've kicked around before — whether the assassination attempt just a normal power play by Marsh & Co., or if someone greased the wheels a little, to hurt Jon but not kill him, in an attempt to kickstart his warging abilities.

[Sworn Shield]

I just had a quick thought, does Sansa have a third eye?

Alright she doesn't have her Direwolf anymore, but why should all the other Stark children having warging abilities and not her. If she does have the ability what will she warg, we know the Stark children can warg into other animals. It would be awesome if Sansa could use her warging ability if she has it to mess with Littlefinger.

[Black Wolf Smith]

I just had a quick thought, does Sansa have a third eye¹?

Alright she doesn't have her Direwolf anymore, but why should all the other Stark children having warging abilities and not her². If she does have the ability what will she warg, we know the Stark children can warg into other animals. It would be awesome if Sansa could use her warging ability if she has³ it to mess with Littlefinger.

1. & 2. she does have a power, it just seems different from the other Stark. Even when she had Lady, it seemed different. Remember when Sandor and Ser Payne scared her, Lady seem to react to Sansa's emotions, while the other Stark kids seem to have some control over their wolves with thoughts or comands.

3. Remember when Marillion was trying to rape her, the dog that was there started barking and growling. Her power seems to be based on Empathy rather then warging. Unlike the other children, she doesn't seem to know it yet, and there for it has not grown as much as the others have( of course she hasn't had her Trauma yet either)

[Sworn Shield]

1. & 2. she does have a power, it just seems different from the other Stark. Even when she had Lady, it seemed different. Remember when Sandor and Ser Payne scared her, Lady seem to react to Sansa's emotions, while the other Stark kids seem to have some control over their wolves with thoughts or comands.

3. Remember when Marillion was trying to rape her, the dog that was there started barking and growling. Her power seems to be based on Empathy rather then warging. Unlike the other children, she doesn't seem to know it yet, and there for it has not grown as much as the others have( of course she hasn't had her Trauma yet either)

I wonder with Sansa that as she is the only Stark child not to follow the Old Gods that this may have an effect on whether she can warg or not, but I do think she most likely can. I have another "theory", that Sandor Clegane is her direwolf replacement. Robert Baratheon said to Ned 'get her a dog she'll be better for it' after ordering Lady's death. I tend to think that dog is Sandor, after all it was him who saved her from being raped in the King's Landing riots (maybe a traumatic event?).

[Black Crow]

All I said was that the Three-eyed Crow is Bloodraven.

They are not one and the same. Not only does Bloodraven get vague and change the subject when Bran asks him straight out if he is the Crow, but their speech patterns and temperament are totally different.

The Crow is not an avatar of the dead man in the tree but a player in its own right, someone not unlike the Morrigan of Celtic legend.

[kephv]

They are not one and the same. Not only does Bloodraven get vague and change the subject when Bran asks him straight out if he is the Crow, but their speech patterns and temperament are totally different.

The Crow is not an avatar of the dead man in the tree but a player in its own right, someone not unlike the Morrigan of Celtic legend.

This is very interesting -- and makes a lot of sense when I think about it. It's true he doesn't actually confirm anything; though I can see how people took him admitting he was a crow to be him admitting he was the crow. It could certainly have been that Bloodraven didn't know what he was talking about when he mentioned the 3EC.

[pestor]

The arguement that BR, and the 3EC are not one in the same IMHO is baseless. The person/thing whatever you want to call him at this point IS BR/3EC. The 3EC is the only one we know who has visited Bran in his dreams telling him he could fly,and BR is the only person EVER refered to as having "a thousand eyes and one." We also know that BR took the black of the Nights Watch when Maester Aemon did as part of the "Honor Guard" that escorted him, and also became the LC. That being the last of BR is heard of until Bran gets to the cave of the CotF. I choose excerpts from 2 of Bran's chapters in ADWD to offer as proof that the 3EC and BR are one in the same.

“Are you the three-eyed crow?” Bran heard himself say. A three-eyed crow should have three eyes. He has only one, and that one red. Bran could feel the eye staring at him, shining like a pool of blood in the torchlight. Where his other eye should have been, a thin white root grew from an empty socket, down his cheek, and into his neck.

“A … crow?” The pale lord’s voice was dry. His lips moved slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. “Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood.” The clothes he wore were rotten and faded, spotted with moss and eaten through with worms, but once they had been black. “I have been many things, Bran. Now I am as you see me, and now you will understand why I could not come to you … except in dreams. I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one. I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell. And now you are come to me at last, Brandon Stark, though the hour is late.”

“I’m here,” Bran said, “only I’m broken. Will you … will you fix me … my legs, I mean?”

“No,” said the pale lord. “That is beyond my powers.”

Bran’s eyes filled with tears. We came such a long way. The chamber echoed to the sound of the black river.

“You will never walk again, Bran,” the pale lips promised, “but you will fly.”

The last greenseer, the singers called him, but in Bran’s dreams he was still a three-eyed crow. When Meera Reed had asked him his true name, he made a ghastly sound that might have been a chuckle. “I wore many names when I was quick, but even I once had a mother, and the name she gave me at her breast was Brynden.”

“I have an uncle Brynden,” Bran said. “He’s my mother’s uncle, really. Brynden Blackfish, he’s called.”

“Your uncle may have been named for me. Some are, still. Not so many as before. Men forget. Only the trees remember.” His voice was so soft that Bran had to strain to hear.

“He has lived beyond his mortal span, and yet he lingers. For us, for you, for the realms of men. Only a little strength remains in his flesh. He has a thousand eyes and one, but there is much to watch. One day you will know.”

Again I chose these excerpts to show the connection between BR and the 3EC to show that they are in fact one being. While he doesn't outright say "Yes I am the 3EC now and was once BR" in the text. Its still there IMHO if you just look.

[Black Crow]

Bran certainly thinks they are one and the same, but compare those dreamy monologues with the way the Crow speaks and behaves - and likewise Mormont's bird which is now crapping on Jon Snow's shoulder.

[sarah.jenice]

Seems to me Bran has actually gone back in time (he's looking at Ghost post DwD timeline) and helping Jon with his warging. I don't know if Brynen Rivers is looking at him too (seems so, considering the "silent shout" bit).

I'm not sure...I thought the darkness and smell of death is because Bran is hiding in the crypts, however, I am not sure if at that time he is able to see through weirwoods. Anyhow, I thought Bran can only look at events but not change them (unless it's happening in present time, I suppose).

Further explanation will be appreciated. :)

This is what I was trying to say earlier. I think this dream of Jon's, which happens in A Clash of Kings, is a vision/dream given to him by a future Bran with more power. At this time, Bran is in the crypts of Winterfell and his third eye has just awoken. But he is only seeing through Summer at that time. He learns to see through the weirwoods in Dance.

And the description:

He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

Don’t be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them.

That sounds like when he is in the cave with Bloodraven (all of the bones around, underground, and Bloodraven tells Bran not to be afraid of the dark). I don't remember Bran saying or thinking that he liked being in the dark crypts.

Bran is obviously going to be very powerful, and I think he will help all of his siblings awaken their gifts. Ned heard a whisper on the wind in that vision when Bloodraven said that wasn't possible. Theon is hearing his name at the Heart Tree, and I think that is Bran reaching out to him.

[Scipio Africanus]

I'm not sure...I thought the darkness and smell of death is because Bran is hiding in the crypts, however, I am not sure if at that time he is able to see through weirwoods. Anyhow, I thought Bran can only look at events but not change them (unless it's happening in present time, I suppose).

This is what I was trying to say earlier. I think this dream of Jon's, which happens in A Clash of Kings, is a vision/dream given to him by a future Bran with more power. At this time, Bran is in the crypts of Winterfell and his third eye has just awoken. But he is only seeing through Summer at that time. He learns to see through the weirwoods in Dance.

And the description:

He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

Don’t be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them.

That sounds like when he is in the cave with Bloodraven (all of the bones around, underground, and Bloodraven tells Bran not to be afraid of the dark). I don't remember Bran saying or thinking that he liked being in the dark crypts.

Bran is obviously going to be very powerful, and I think he will help all of his siblings awaken their gifts. Ned heard a whisper on the wind in that vision when Bloodraven said that wasn't possible. Theon is hearing his name at the Heart Tree, and I think that is Bran reaching out to him.

Unfortunately Sarah, Melonica is right. I too got a little carried away and went Back to the Future on Bran. ;)

(Bran awakens and thinks about what he saw the last past days)...Here in the chill damp darkness of the tomb his third eye at finally opened. He could reach Summer whenever he wanted, and once he even had touched Ghost and talked to Jon

CoK, US paperback edition, page 959.

In other words Bran had spoken with Jon around the time Jon was in that pass with Qhorin's band while he himself was hiding from the Ironborn in the crypts of Winterfell.

I was thrown off because I didn't think Bran could reach out through weirwood trees yet but obviously he could by that time.

[The Molehill That Walks]

***Spoiler alert***

There have been two occaision we have been told of that a character opens there 3rd eye. Bran and Jojen.

Jojen-

“When I was little I almost died of greywater fever. That was when the crow came to me."

Bran-

"He came to me after I fell,” Bran blurted. “I was asleep for a long time. He said I had to fly or die, and I woke up, only I was broken and I couldn’t fly after all.”

It seems to me that the TEC/BR visits those needed for the future success of man while they are having a near death experience. Could it be with Jons situation that its time for him to truely open his 3rd eye and embrace the gifts the old gods have given to him??

Jon Snow already opened his third eye......all over ygritte.

[Sali1530]

I was reading through this conversation while rereading AFFC and ADWD. Coincidentally I was on a Jon chapter. He's talking with Mel and thinks "At her throat, her ruby gleamed, a third eye glowing brighter than the others..." Might be nothing or it might be some interesting foreshadowing.

First post!

[Melonica Stormborn]

@Scipio Africanus, thanks for the quote. Despite my original take on it, I too was also not quite sure and thought I might be missing something. The quote cleared it up. :)

[Cold-King]

I was reading through this conversation while rereading AFFC and ADWD. Coincidentally I was on a Jon chapter. He's talking with Mel and thinks "At her throat, her ruby gleamed, a third eye glowing brighter than the others..." Might be nothing or it might be some interesting foreshadowing.

First post!

I read a thread before saying the ruby could actually be glamouring her apperance sort of like what she done for mance, and ive heard people say it could possibly be shiera seastar, bloodravens sister/lover which i found quite interesting, not sure i believe it though.

[armidil0]

Bran being able to change the past makes the whole story moot. Why is anything even happening the way they are now then? It makes no sense. Time travel should be left untouched because it causes to many loopholes.

This doesn't mean that 3EC and BR are the same. Maybe the 3EC is just a natural anomaly that comes to people in dreams who have natural abilities/powers. A near life or death thing.

Or maybe BR is the 3EC nad is playing his 'game'.

[Babeldygob]

The arguement that BR, and the 3EC are not one in the same IMHO is baseless. The person/thing whatever you want to call him at this point IS BR/3EC. The 3EC is the only one we know who has visited Bran in his dreams telling him he could fly,and BR is the only person EVER refered to as having "a thousand eyes and one." We also know that BR took the black of the Nights Watch when Maester Aemon did as part of the "Honor Guard" that escorted him, and also became the LC. That being the last of BR is heard of until Bran gets to the cave of the CotF. I choose excerpts from 2 of Bran's chapters in ADWD to offer as proof that the 3EC and BR are one in the same.

“Are you the three-eyed crow?” Bran heard himself say. A three-eyed crow should have three eyes. He has only one, and that one red. Bran could feel the eye staring at him, shining like a pool of blood in the torchlight. Where his other eye should have been, a thin white root grew from an empty socket, down his cheek, and into his neck.

“A … crow?” The pale lord’s voice was dry. His lips moved slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. “Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood.” The clothes he wore were rotten and faded, spotted with moss and eaten through with worms, but once they had been black. “I have been many things, Bran. Now I am as you see me, and now you will understand why I could not come to you … except in dreams. I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one. I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell. And now you are come to me at last, Brandon Stark, though the hour is late.”

“I’m here,” Bran said, “only I’m broken. Will you … will you fix me … my legs, I mean?”

“No,” said the pale lord. “That is beyond my powers.”

Bran’s eyes filled with tears. We came such a long way. The chamber echoed to the sound of the black river.

“You will never walk again, Bran,” the pale lips promised, “but you will fly.”

The last greenseer, the singers called him, but in Bran’s dreams he was still a three-eyed crow. When Meera Reed had asked him his true name, he made a ghastly sound that might have been a chuckle. “I wore many names when I was quick, but even I once had a mother, and the name she gave me at her breast was Brynden.”

“I have an uncle Brynden,” Bran said. “He’s my mother’s uncle, really. Brynden Blackfish, he’s called.”

“Your uncle may have been named for me. Some are, still. Not so many as before. Men forget. Only the trees remember.” His voice was so soft that Bran had to strain to hear.

“He has lived beyond his mortal span, and yet he lingers. For us, for you, for the realms of men. Only a little strength remains in his flesh. He has a thousand eyes and one, but there is much to watch. One day you will know.”

Again I chose these excerpts to show the connection between BR and the 3EC to show that they are in fact one being. While he doesn't outright say "Yes I am the 3EC now and was once BR" in the text. Its still there IMHO if you just look.

Nobody is questioning that the man on the weirwood throne is Bloodraven. He's just not the 3EC. I like the idea of Bran being the 3EC and guiding himself to becoming the 3EC.