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Adam Carmack

Ragnarok

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Obviously there has been a lot of Norse influence in the series (especially the north). GRRM has explained his negative feelings about absolute good vs evil. I was just realizing that Norse mythology is the same way. It is not good versus evil, it's order versus chaos.

I have long thought that GRRM might possibly end up killing everyone (valar morghulis is seemingly the most oft-repeated phrase) in an apocalyptic Ragnarok-like event (the long night). However, if this were to be the case what character would "represent" Balder and re-begin society after chaos has won for a time? Jon? What do you guys think?

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Well, my name isn't RAGNAROK for nothing. Baldyr had a brother named Hodor. our "hodor" is really named Walder. and baldyr married a woman named Nanna or nannan (old nan?).

i do not think that everyone will die.

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I know absolutely nothing of Norse mythology, but I don't think GRRM will kill everyone. There is a ''sweet'' in bittersweet. ;)

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Obviously there has been a lot of Norse influence in the series (especially the north). GRRM has explained his negative feelings about absolute good vs evil. I was just realizing that Norse mythology is the same way. It is not good versus evil, it's order versus chaos.

I have long thought that GRRM might possibly end up killing everyone (valar morghulis is seemingly the most oft-repeated phrase) in an apocalyptic Ragnarok-like event (the long night). However, if this were to be the case what character would "represent" Balder and re-begin society after chaos has won for a time? Jon? What do you guys think?

The descendants of Lif n Lifthrasir will inhabit the earth at the end.......... The Starks and Targ :P, wishful thinking.

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I know absolutely nothing of Norse mythology, but I don't think GRRM will kill everyone. There is a ''sweet'' in bittersweet. ;)

Then you are missing one of the most beautiful reads of ancient, comparable with the Greek myths... and has been used as basis for lots of authors (Tolkien to say one).

If you really like dwelving in that kind of stuff I suggest you to try to dig into into it...

Edit: not to spoil you anything but the ending of Ragnarok is bittersweet...

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The thing that brought Ragnarok was a big wolf named Fenrir.

Or did he just kill Odin during ragnarok.

Loki god of mischief and fire, and fathered fenrir, sleipnir, and Hel.

Also for random sake Some of the priests devoted to the Smith of the seven wear hammer emblems around their necks, this is remniscent to Norse wearing "Thor's Hammer" for strength in battle and other such charms.

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Then you are missing one of the most beautiful reads of ancient, comparable with the Greek myths... and has been used as basis for lots of authors (Tolkien to say one).

If you really like dwelving in that kind of stuff I suggest you to try to dig into into it...

Are you trying to ruin me? :P A Song of Ice and Fire is one major addiction too much, another one wouldn't really help me or my study. But if you'd like to suggest something, go ahead. (:

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I absolutely love Norse mythology and the OP is spot on about the Song of Ice and Fire being about order vs. chaos! Too much of either is very bad for those trying to exist between those two extremes ;) I went through a period - in junior high, I think - where I read all the various mythology I could get my hands on and that was my first introduction to the Norse myths. I also took an undergrad course on Norse mythology and it was one of the best, most interesting classes I ever had.

Now, I don't believe everyone will die in the end but some will. Also, as to who will be the one to rebuild? I don't know but I don't think it will be just one character. I think several will play their roles.

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The thing that brought Ragnarok was a big wolf named Fenrir.

Or did he just kill Odin during ragnarok.

Loki god of mischief and fire, and fathered fenrir, sleipnir, and Hel.

Also for random sake Some of the priests devoted to the Smith of the seven wear hammer emblems around their necks, this is remniscent to Norse wearing "Thor's Hammer" for strength in battle and other such charms.

Finrir swallowed Odin

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I absolutely love Norse mythology and the OP is spot on about the Song of Ice and Fire being about order vs. chaos! Too much of either is very bad for those trying to exist between those two extremes ;) I went through a period - in junior high, I think - where I read all the various mythology I could get my hands on and that was my first introduction to the Norse myths. I also took an undergrad course on Norse mythology and it was one of the best, most interesting classes I ever had.

Now, I don't believe everyone will die in the end but some will. Also, as to who will be the one to rebuild? I don't know but I don't think it will be just one character. I think several will play their roles.

Me too love Norse mythology better than Roman or Greek

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I do remember in Norse mythology there were different worlds (7 or 9). There was Valhalla, a world of dead, a world of elves etc...

There was also a world of ice and a world of fire.

Edit

OK doing some quick research on wiki. Not the best of sources but here's some interesting stuff

Muspelheim (Múspellsheimr, literally "home of Múspell") is the world of fire, at odds with Niflheim, the world of ice; and during Ragnarök (the final fate of the gods), the fire giants, called the "sons of Múspell" or "people of Múspell" , will break the Bifröst bridge, thus heralding the beginning of Ragnarök.

​Niflheim was primarily a realm of primordial ice and cold, with nine frozen rivers. According to Gylfaginning, it was one of the two primordial realms, the other one being Muspelheim, the realm of fire. Between these two realms of cold and heat, creation began when its waters mixed with the heat of Muspelheim to create a "creating steam". Later, it became the abode of Hel, a goddess daughter of Loki, and the afterlife for her subjects, those who did not die a heroic or notable death.

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Well it's been used numerous times and influenced lots of artistics works.

To keep on Tolkien example, Gandalf heavily resembles Odin, The Halls of Mandos in the Silmarillion is the Norse Valhalla (tough Mandos itself is based on Hades) also the last prophesied battle of Arda, the Dagor Dagorath, is basically a rip-off from Ragnarok.

One of the most beautiful operas ever is Richard Wagner Der Ring Des Nibelungen

Also is useful info since it's in a direct relation with the history and culture of the Scandinavians nations...once you understand the influence of Valhalla on them, you grasp better why Vikings were so war-like, etc.

Edit: spolier Natalie Portman doesn't appear anywhere :lol:

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Bran is the best guess for the 'Baldr' figure, with his direwolf called Summer (Baldr being the god of summer), accompanied by Hodor (or Hodhr, in Norse mythology) and Nan(-na)

As for the rest, various parallels to the story have been noted. For examples, Tyr, the god of trial by combat, corresponds to the entire Lannister family in a number of ways.

As for the Odin figure of ASoIaF: Bloodraven is a skinchanger (or shapeshifter, he's also able to glamour), one-eyed, nailed to a tree...

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I think it's cool/awesome that I guess people finally realized this. I mean, not being a dick, but the fact that he uses a lot of different kind of mythologies is apparent. I can't help but think of "Lan" from the age of Heroes as representing Loki, because he too is called a trickster. Also, the way Tullys bury their dead is almost exactly dead on to how many Viking tribes also buried their dead as well.

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Bran is the best guess for the 'Baldr' figure, with his direwolf called Summer (Baldr being the god of summer), accompanied by Hodor (or Hodhr, in Norse mythology) and Nan(-na)

As for the rest, various parallels to the story have been noted. For examples, Tyr, the god of trial by combat, corresponds to the entire Lannister family in a number of ways.

As for the Odin figure of ASoIaF: Bloodraven is a skinchanger (or shapeshifter, he's also able to glamour), one-eyed, nailed to a tree...

I immediately thought of Odin or even the Fates from Greek mythology when Bloodraven was introduced

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lol i remember how excited i was a while back i think 2006 when i first started reading asoiaf. I looked into the norse myths because of the bonfires and also celtic myths because of the faeries. When reading about the Norse myths i found out they had a Hodor I laughed hysterically.

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There's an older thread for this.

I don't think everyone will die, at least on screen, valar morghulis, but I think plenty of characters will survive the series, like the Stark kids.

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Everything we've been told about The Long Night does make it seem rather Ragnarokish, doesn't it? :)

Bloodraven is very Odinesque, too, now that people mention it. A thousand eyes and one. Bound to a tree. Losing a physical eye, gaining sight of the future. Down to "raven" being in his name. Weren't the two birds that brought Odin the news of the world ravens?

Oh, and hey, ravens are the communication network in Westeros. How about that. Varys, too, gets his info from his little birds.

And while we're talking Odin and eyes and eye patch... perhaps we should expect big things from Euron Greyjoy, after all.

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Thanks for all the posts, as to everyone dying, I also think will be a stretch (even for GRRM). I only mean that I if he does do it, or much more likely, something like it. I could imagine the collapse of society and all major historical powers dying out (basically the great houses lose their influence). I was just wondering if it did end in such an event what does everyone think the aftermath would look like.

I love the idea that Bran would lead the "redbuilding" efforts

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The Long Night will wipe out a shit ton of people and it will result in a big power shift in Westeros. I do think that the wall is coming down and that the North and South will become separate kingdoms.

Ideally I like to think that the remaining Starks will survive and so will Gendry, Jon and Dany. But anything is possible as we all know.

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