Sansa, The Hound, Brienne and The Valonquar (crackpot theory time)

[Max Berg]

At this point a mysterious character will pick up the helm and put it on, as well as take up the still-flaming sword dropped by Thoros. No prizes for guessing who this is. Sandor Clegane, who has been sitting on the quiet isle, and has broken his silence to come to his little bird's aid. He fights what is left of his brother, driving the flaming sword into his stupid big undead face, which causes the abomination to burst into flames. Sandor is mortally wounded in this effort and has a final moment with Sansa before he passes away, finally at peace with himself.

I apologize, but I stopped reading after this.

This does not work.

[WinterWarrior]

I don't see Gendry and Sansa at all - Baratheon or not, she lives in an entirely different universe from him. Arya can adapt to that, I don't think Sansa can. I don't see that they would be attracted to each other. I hadn't thought about Sandor going up against Robert Strong but that may happen, he would only do it for Sansa though....so somehow her story must get entwined. I love Brienne and cannot stand the thought of her dying, but it does make sense that something with Brienne will make Jamie kill Cersei. I do believe he is the Valonqar. Unless its Tyrion when he returns with Danaerys. If Brienne dies maybe she will ask that Pod be the heir to Evenfall if her father does not wed again.....too many ifs and speculations. GRRM needs to finish the freakin' books!

[Lady Shea Florent]

I really like the Sansa/Gendry pairing

[Tharvot]

Ive been a big proponent of the idea that Sandor will somehow come to Sansa's aid once again in the upcoming books. I do not think both Jaime and Brienne will make it past Stoneheart unscathed...I think Brienne will die.

[Light a wight tonight]

I also have to agree with those who think that Harrenhall is a bit too run down for a nice wedding reception. BUT... Considering how well other receptions have fared in the past, what have they got to lose?

Seriously? Beyond getting ambushed and killed? The Vale is nice and safe. Why travel across a war zone for a wedding in a dump? Plus, pulling strength out of the Vale for the wedding would encourage the hill tribes to raid even more, and if Dany were to get her ships together and cross the Narrow Sea she could land in the Vale nearly unopposed.

Just a generally bad idea.

[Jon Snow's doggy]

Ive been a big proponent of the idea that Sandor will somehow come to Sansa's aid once again in the upcoming books. I do not think both Jaime and Brienne will make it past Stoneheart unscathed...I think Brienne will die.

So, what is Brienne up to in the teaser chapter in DWD? Luring Jaime into a trap?

[Dead Wolf]

There needs to be more chaos iif Littlefinger is involved but otherwise, great thread

[Le Cygne]

The two parts of the crackpot that make the least sense to me are that Brienne would put on the Hound's helm and that Sansa would fall in love with Gendry, so I'll address those.

I suspect the wedding between Harry the Heir and Sansa will be supposed to take place at Harrenhal, and that on the way there their retinue will be ambushed by a force led by none other than Ser Robert Strong.

What about Sansa? Is she just going to go along with this? She seems to be missing from this crackpot theory. She's just along for the ride. Someone for "Guy She Never Met" to marry.

I also think that The Brotherhood Without Banners will come to Sansa's rescue, including Jaime and Brienne, who by saving Sansa can prove to unCat once and for all that their oaths were true.

The BwB is a sham at this point. That would be quite a turnaround.

I think firstly that Brienne will at this point have inherited the Hound helmet from Lem, in order to cover up her disfiguring scars. Secondly I think in the coming fight Robert Strong kills Thoros of Myr, who drops his flaming sword to the ground. I think after this Brienne and Jaime are left facing off against him, a battle in which Brienne's helmet is knocked off, she is mortally wounded/killed and Jaime is knocked to the ground.

For Sandor to be at rest, the Hound had to die. The Hound persona, this response to Gregor, nearly destroyed him. Jaime, who knew him, made the distinction, saying what Rorge was doing as the Hound didn't sound like Sandor. Listen to what Thoros tells Lem, when he puts it on, after Rorge:

“Sandor Clegane was a man in torment, and Rorge a beast in human skin.”

“I’m not them.”

“Then why show the world their face? Savage, snarling, twisted … is that who you would be, Lem?”

Brienne killed Rorge, who assumed the Hound persona, while defending children. That helm would be the last thing on earth she'd put on. Furthermore, she saw what happened to her cheek as a "battle scar" so why would she hide it?

And the notion that Brienne would impersonate someone else, particularly a man, to do what she most truly wants to do (defend Sansa, defend Jaime) diminishes her, as a person, and as a woman. She never wanted to be a man, she wanted to be a knight.

At this point a mysterious character will pick up the helm and put it on, as well as take up the still-flaming sword dropped by Thoros. No prizes for guessing who this is. Sandor Clegane, who has been sitting on the quiet isle, and has broken his silence to come to his little bird's aid. He fights what is left of his brother, driving the flaming sword into his stupid big undead face, which causes the abomination to burst into flames. Sandor is mortally wounded in this effort and has a final moment with Sansa before he passes away, finally at peace with himself.

This is ignoring Sansa, she's very passive in this scenario. Waiting to be rescued. Yet in her story, she's thinking about Sandor as much as he is thinking about her. Maybe she will rescue him.

A couple of side-theories to this - I think that Sansa's husband-to-be will be killed in this fight, and I think she will be escorted by none other than Gendry, who she falls in love with. Yup, Sansa and Gendry, that's my theory. He may be a bastard, but he's a royal bastard, and I suspect after all this Sansa will be sick to death of noblemen anyway. There's also a bit of a telling joke Jaime makes about her having probably run off with "some blacksmith", which I think was a bit of a hint towards that.

Jaime is saying this in that she'll forget she was a Stark, but she hadn't forgotten:

"if the gods are good, she’ll forget she was a Stark. She’ll wed some burly blacksmith or fat-faced innkeep, fill his house with children, and never need to fear that some knight might come along to smash their heads against a wall.”

And thus ends the only thing remotely tying her to Gendry in the story, some offhand comment from Jaime. What about the rest of the series? What's going on there?

Sansa dreamed a thousand times of a tall strong man giving her his cloak in marriage and kissing her, and in the story, a tall strong man gives her his cloak (repeatedly) and she places him in the marriage bed (repeatedly) and dreams of him kissing her (repeatedly).

That's a lot of repetative detail, and it spans four books.

Looking at Sansa's last chapter in AFFC, it seems like there's a conflict set up between Sandor and Littlefinger. She's thinking about kissing Sandor, while Littlefinger is kissing her.

When Sweetrobin is about to kiss her, Sansa thinks she's Alayne Stone now and right after that, thinks about kissing Sandor. And look how that is worded:

As the boy’s lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. As the boy’s lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. She could still remember how it felt, when his cruel mouth pressed down on her own. He had come to Sansa in the darkness as green fire filled the sky. He took a song and a kiss, and left me nothing but a bloody cloak.

She's matchmaking for Lothor Brune (who she mistook for Sandor once, when she heard Lothor's voice she thought it was Sandor coming to rescue her) and Mya Stone (again, while thinking of herself as Alayne Stone).

After this, Myranda asks her does she know about the marriage bed, and she thinks of Sandor kissing her again.

Then Littlefinger asks for a kiss, and it's worded the same way as when she was "kissing" Sandor:

"That’s worth another kiss now, don’t you think?"

She's choosing who to kiss the first time. He's choosing the second time. She's not being passive in her thoughts. She's telling a very different story for herself than the one Littlefinger is telling her.

In the aftermath of this battle Sansa also finds out about Arya's story. I think the fact that Gendry protected Arya will act as a catalyst, also the fact he's clearly respectful to the ladies would go down well with her, too. Thinking about it if this goes down there's also a chance that he will inherit oathkeeper - then one remnant of Ice will be once again protecting the Stark line.

In the story, Gendry is very much a part of Arya's story, not Sansa. Why put all of that storytelling into this, then have Sansa and Gendry hook up out of nowhere at the last minute?

[White Flower]

I wholeheartedly agree with Le Cygne here.

I doubt they would move soldiers, nobles, supplies and whatnot out of the Vale, through the snowed-down mountains, across a war-zone, to have a wedding at Harrenhall, when it makes much more sense to just stay where they are.

Neither do I believe Sansa would fall in love with Gendry. They are too different, or rather, they've lived too different lives.

Also, I'm not a fan of the Sandor vs Un-Gregor-theories. Kinslaying is a big deal in Westeros, and if Sandor truly has shed his Hound-persona, he would no longer need to kill his brother. Besides, Un-Gregor could hardly be called his brother anyways. He's already dead. In regards to Brans dream, I guess I could see Sandor and Jaime having to fight Gregorstein together, but only because of a direct threat on their own or someone else's lives (Sansa, Brienne).

[Ser Bruce]

I like this theory, except the Sansa/Gendry Part, Sansa/Aegon and Arya/Genry.

Aegon is a Blackfyre. He's destined to have his head smashed in..... again.

[MotherMerciless]

Even though Brienne dies in it (just about one of the most painful deatns for me), I really like this theory and how it is tied up.

I agree with a lot of it, and some parts I think aren't quite what I imagined, but still, a nicely thought theory.

I also like the reason you gave Jaime for killing Cersei, which is something I had not had thusfar.

[KingSlayer36]

Most accurate theory iv heard yet!!! Great work!

[KingSlayer36]

[quote name="MotherMerciless" post="5124304" timestamp="1384202362

I also like the reason you gave Jaime for killing Cersei, which is something I had not had thusfar.

[Gustavo]

Tormund agrees in this shit.

[Ser Needle]

I think this battle will happen in much the way you've described. I see Robert Strong/UnGregor all but killing Brienne as Oberyn Martell all but killed Gregor, then Brienne finishing off UnGregor with fire (most likely the flaming sword). It would be a bittersweet ode to that trial by combat. I'm sure Sandor is the Gravedigger and will be involved in the battle, but won't be the one to finish him off. It would bring him more torment than closure. I love Brienne but agree her death by Cersei's hand would drive Jaime to kill Cersei. She has said she always imagined they'd go out of the world the way they came in - together, I think Jaime kills himself killing Cersei, falling from a window with the words "The things I do for love" would do nicely.

As for Sansa and Gendry, I think the reference King Robert made about joining the Stark and Barratheon houses and Jaime's line about marrying a blacksmith are planted to make us believe that's what will happen. In the end it would be an awesome twist to have Arya marry Gendry (I think Stannis will legitimize him) the heir to the Iron Throne. The chat Arya had with her dad about not wanting to marry a Lord etc makes me think this will happen. There has been too much written into the way Sansa and Sandor feel about each other and her being a pawn in the game for the North/Winterfell, for this pairing not to to be endgame. It would be a great reversal of roles for the sisters, one raised to be the perfect match for a King and the other who wanted nothing of the sort.

[sapphire_lion]

Ive been a big proponent of the idea that Sandor will somehow come to Sansa's aid once again in the upcoming books. I do not think both Jaime and Brienne will make it past Stoneheart unscathed...I think Brienne will die.

GRRM recently said Brienne's story still has a way to go.

[sapphire_lion]

I love Brienne but agree her death by Cersei's hand would drive Jaime to kill Cersei. She has said she always imagined they'd go out of the world the way they came in - together, I think Jaime kills himself killing Cersei, falling from a window with the words "The things I do for love" would do nicely.

Jaime's weirwood dream in ASOS heavily implied that Cersei would die before him. The dream also implied Joffrey and Tywin's death.

BTW, the last time Cersei said she and Jaime would die together, she also said that Jaime never got her letter. She doesn't know what she's talking about.

I doubt Jaime will die with her, they've already gone their separate ways.

[emdave]

I totally buy this theory. Also, I think there's something to the idea that the books will begin with Jaime killing a Stark to protect Cersei (and himself), and end with Jaime killing Cersei (and maybe himself as well) to protect whom he thinks is the last living Stark because Cersei tried to have her killed. There's just such a terribly sweet chiastic structure there that just screams GRRM to me.

[mdw4950]

ive posted similar thoughts. i really doubt the hound comes back for cerseis trial. i fully believe that lancel, now blinded by his faith, will go into the fight thinking he cant lose since he knows cersei is guilty. aaaand hes going to get ripped apart. probably literally ripped apart. no one wants to speak up against robert strong but people are already skeptical. if he comes out and slaughters lancel then word will spread even more quickly that something is afoul.

from briennes chapter on the QI, we hear the elder brother mentioning news throughout westeros and also saying hes heard of both good and bad deeds the hound has committed over the years. the QI might be a secluded monastery but they arent out of the loop to current events in the 7 kingdoms. when word of what robert strong and cersei have done reaches the isle, the hound will know immediately that its gregor. he got to see it first hand after he killed beric so hes very aware that the dead can be brought back in one form or another.

i dont think robert strong will be enough to get him off the isle though. helmet or not, hes one of the most recognizable people in westeros. theres no way he can get into kings landing without being spotted beforehand. im sure martin could write it in if he wanted but i feel like thats somewhat of a lazy way out. anyway, hes had the chance to kill gregor before. hell, ned heavily implies that sandor couldve killed him during the hands tourney. the hound chose to fight gregor head on and then basically fight defensively the entire time til the situation was under control.

imo the hound wouldnt know what to do with himself if he actually killed gregor. thats been his main motivation his entire life since he was burned. if were lead to believe that he has truly shed his facade turned true persona of 'the hound,' then he really wouldnt care that gregor just kept cersei alive. it should be enough to silently piss him off a whole lot though.

this is where the theory does catch some major traction though. if news breaks that sansa is alive and cersei is trying to root her out, that should be the breaking point for sandor to try and take action. its not out of his character at all to simply get up, say f-it and decide to leave the QI and his new life. everyone has taken it for granted that sandor has this new view on life because hes on the QI. he can easily still be an elite fighter without being 'the hound.' i could be completely wrong here but i feel like sandor did enjoy being a dick. its very possible that hes just kind of a jerk and thats who he is lol. honestly, i really dont want to see a neutered (no pun intended) version of sandor return. he can still be close to his character and not talk about how much he loves killing things all the time. when brienne and the elder brother pass him digging graves he does still throw dirt at them since theyre talking about him. thats still kind of a dick thing to do for a newly religious man.

im not going to start to predict how this all ties together, but i do buy into the idea that cersei will turn her attention towards sansa with the hound attempting to make the save. i get the feeling the hound will play a part in cerseis downfall and seem like the valonqar at first but then jaime actually makes the kill to fulfill the prophecy.