Boardwalk Empire Season 4

[Wun Drop]

That seems like it would put Tommy and the girls (doesn't one of them remind Richard of his sister?) at unacceptible risk.

Or maybe Dick Harrow really is that badass that he can pull it off with maximum hostile carnage and zero friendly casualties! Look how easily Rosetti's 3 goons took out Nucky's bodyguards who knew the elevator was the only way in. :)

[Wun Drop]

My predicted most awesome Season 3 climax:

Capone, tommy gun in hand, kicks down the door of the mansion, and everyone's dead already.

[The BlackBear]

What I don't really understand is why is Masseria relying on Rosetti. All his men are Masseria's, we know this because he didn't have the strength to get back at his assassins on his own. If Masseria was so keen on making a move, pick one of his Lieutenants who's capable. Rosetti is a live wire, who doesn't seem to be that clued up business wise; he needed to get the Black guys on side, so he said that Chalky had been 'left out in the sun' = GENIUS! :bang:

...Unless Masseria is planning to backstab him. Have him take all the heat, then off him if/when it comes together. If Rosetti gets killed by 'his' own guys that'd be grand.

[Wun Drop]

What I don't really understand is why is Masseria relying on Rosetti. All his men are Masseria's, we know this because he didn't have the strength to get back at his assassins on his own. If Masseria was so keen on making a move, pick one of his Lieutenants who's capable. Rosetti is a live wire, who doesn't seem to be that clued up business wise; he needed to get the Black guys on side, so he said that Chalky had been 'left out in the sun' = GENIUS! :bang:

...Unless Masseria is planning to backstab him. Have him take all the heat, then off him if/when it comes together. If Rosetti gets killed by 'his' own guys that'd be grand.

That is a good point, and I suspect Rothstein will have some insight on the situation next week. :)

[Lord O' Bones]

I didn't think "left out in the sun" had anything to do with skin color. I thought it was referring to being marginalized. :dunno:

[Relic]

I didn't think "left out in the sun" had anything to do with skin color. I thought it was referring to being marginalized. :dunno:

Really? I'm positive it was a remark on the color of his skin. Ross sort of sneers when he says "Chalky White".

[The BlackBear]

He meant it in a getting spat on by his 'betters' kind of way, but the choice of wording was absolutely racially driven.

[Lord O' Bones]

Gyp referred to himself when he made the statement which makes no sense in that context. Maybe I don't see color like Colbert (though people tell me I'm white.)

[red snow]

I think killing Richard this early would just be dumb. It would feel like a tragic, shocker ending for the sake of a tragic, shocker ending. They already had the "holy shit" character death with Jimmy last year, so I don't really think they need to kill off any more of the main cast to make a point again -- at least not this season. That being said, I don't really expect Harrow to make it all the way through the show. But I definitely think it serves the show's best interests to keep one of their most popular, if not their most popular, character on the show for a little while longer. There's still a hell of a lot they can do with Harrow.

I'd love to know what the show's original intention was with Richard. I strongly suspect he was never meant to the breakout character but it really does seem that way. I always enjoy it when a character comes to life, particularly when the actor brings so much to the roll. It doesn't happen that often but it's magic when it does. I guess the show has such a large cast there was always a good chance it would happen with one of the supporting characters.

[Wun Drop]

Gyp referred to himself when he made the statement which makes no sense in that context. Maybe I don't see color like Colbert (though people tell me I'm white.)

Gyp absolutely sees himself as an ethnic/cultural outsider in America. (The whole story about his family living in a cave, etc.)

[Paladin of Ice]

Yeah, best episode of the season for sure. Loved the look of fear that briefly flashed across Gillian's face as she realised she'd maybe pushed Richard too far, and he was more than capable of gunning down Rosetti's two goons and her if he wanted too

One of the best things about the show's long term prospects that I saw in this episode was Nucky's gradual realisation that, hey, maybe treating everyone around him like irritating pieces of shit isn't a terribly good idea. That's bothered me since season 1 - for a politician, Nucky really does a horrible job of maintaining his personal relationships, and I think his behaviour in that respect was pretty directly responsible for turning Eli against him (and nearly cost him Chalky's help) As a long term character arc it works, but it's sure made Nucky a hard character to like so far, so it's a good sign to see that might be changing.

I think Nucky is a classic example of a guy who can put on an affable mask, but because it's not really his nature, (or not entirely his nature anyway) when he's around people long enough that mask inevitably falls apart. As long as he doesn't have to deal with people on a deep level, if he can keep it to giving speeches, making a donation, that sort of thing, he can keep the facade in place. When he's asked to do more than that, the bitter, angry, resentful kid who never got enough to eat and has had to kiss the asses of less talented and intelligent people all his life to make his way in society comes out. And brother, it ain't pretty.

It's also occurred to me that there seems to be a rather underplayed theme that Nucky knows how to give people what they want, but he doesn't have a clue how to actually make anyone happy. About why having a club on the Boardwalk would mean more to Chalky than money, or for that matter why just throwing money at thigns doesn't solve their problems. (I.e. Teddy)

What I don't really understand is why is Masseria relying on Rosetti. All his men are Masseria's, we know this because he didn't have the strength to get back at his assassins on his own. If Masseria was so keen on making a move, pick one of his Lieutenants who's capable. Rosetti is a live wire, who doesn't seem to be that clued up business wise; he needed to get the Black guys on side, so he said that Chalky had been 'left out in the sun' = GENIUS! :bang:

...Unless Masseria is planning to backstab him. Have him take all the heat, then off him if/when it comes together. If Rosetti gets killed by 'his' own guys that'd be grand.

First off, I want to note that I think Rosetti isn't stupid. Crazy? Hell yes! Stupid, no. He has a long established pattern by now of deliberately winding people and observing how they react. He then bases his relationship with them off of that interaction, unless they annoy him too much. Then he kills them. (For example, see all his comments to Gillian where he calls her "Red" and "Strawberry" the interactions with the paper boy, the way he interacted with people in Tabor Heights when he first set up shop there, like when he asked the waitress about what spaghetti and meatballs are, etc.)

Second, I don't think Masseria realizes how crazy Rosetti is, likely because Rosetti knows that Masseria can swat him like a fly and thus dials down the crazy around Masseria. So all Masseria sees is a hothead who gets himself into trouble, without realizing that Rosetti is actually a psychopath.

Thirdly, Masseria has plenty of men ("Joe Masseria has an army" - Owen) and no special attachment to them ("These men are loyal... and that's all they're good for" - Masseria, as he watches his men jump into the Atlantic fucking Ocean in winter to unload liquor crates) so as he sees it, he can afford to spare a few if it might unarguably propel him to the top of the bootlegging game. And if taking out Nucky doesn't work, Masseria is probably secure enough in his power base that Nucky wouldn't really be able to come after him regardless.

My predicted most awesome Season 3 climax:

Capone, tommy gun in hand, kicks down the door of the mansion, and everyone's dead already.

My personal vision goes something like this: Rosetti leaves the mansion for a bit, goes back to get his men together for one last big battle... and opens the door to see Richard sitting there, covered in the blood of Rosetti's thugs, ala the end of Serenity when the doors open and River is the only one left standing while dead Reavers are all around her.

[Wun Drop]

Or how about this: Rosetti goes back to the mansion to gather his troops, finds they are all dead, and while he is staring dumbfounded at the carnage, Gillian garrotes him from behind like Luca/Jabba.

Absolutely agree with the comments above that Rosetti isn't stupid, he just acts dumb sometimes to manipulate people, and on top of that he's fucking nuts in a complex and non-caricature villainous role.

[Ran]

Rossetti definitely sees himself as marginalized in American society, and maybe even by some Italian-Americans thanks to his Sicilian origins. His skin tone's a bit darker than that of many of the guys he's bossing around, you'll note. So, he was referring both to himself and Chalky as having common ground because they're marked out as different/inferior by their dark looks.

It wasn't racially-sensitive, and you know Chalky can see right through him and his BS appeal to common experience, but I think Rosseti thought it'd be smart.

[Paladin of Ice]

Rossetti definitely sees himself as marginalized in American society, and maybe even by some Italian-Americans thanks to his Sicilian origins. His skin tone's a bit darker than that of many of the guys he's bossing around, you'll note. So, he was referring both to himself and Chalky as having common ground because they're marked out as different/inferior by their dark looks.

It wasn't racially-sensitive, and you know Chalky can see right through him and his BS appeal to common experience, but I think Rosseti thought it'd be smart.

Agreed. And Italian-Americans were a definite minority at that time so I can see why Rosetti would think it was a good idea. Doesn't actually make it a good idea, but then unless Nucky was a complete asshole to Chalky even while Chalky was sheltering him, Chalky wasn't turning him over anyway, so...

[7V3N]

Since Jimmy came up, what did everyone think of his death? The whole season I just got a feeling of inevitability. Like he had to die, the whole soldier thing Richard said to Nucky. So I definitely saw it coming, but the scene was much greater than I ever expected, and the stuff with Angela was touching as well. Were you guys surprised by it or what?

[Winterfell is Burning]

Since Jimmy came up, what did everyone think of his death? The whole season I just got a feeling of inevitability. Like he had to die, the whole soldier thing Richard said to Nucky. So I definitely saw it coming, but the scene was much greater than I ever expected, and the stuff with Angela was touching as well. Were you guys surprised by it or what?

Nah, the last few episodes made it inevitable, plus I heard about Michael Pitt causing problems on the set.

[voodooqueen126]

What if Richard Harrow actually isn't that badass (no depth perception, blind to attacks from the left) and the writers are setting up a giant "fuck you" to the audience expectations? :)

I am inclined to agree with this, losing one eye would ruin your depth perception.

Also I am surprised that Tommy didn't die this episode, but given the fact that Gillian missed the oppurtunity to get Tommy out of her brothel/house full of psychopathic mafia goons, I expect him to be the sacrifice next episode.

[red snow]

Nah, the last few episodes made it inevitable, plus I heard about Michael Pitt causing problems on the set.

I did wonder if Michael Pitt was maybe a bit of a Diva - although all parties did a professional job of not making it look like that. I thought Jimmy's story in season 2 was very well handled and it did have a tragic sense of doom running through it. I only watched season 2 back in March and a friend had blurted "I can't beleive they killed whatsisname" I stopped the conversation before she found a name but I kind of knew that Jimmy was the only high profile character they could off. The odd thing was that I thought I was wrong once we reached the point his wife was killed and I desperately hoped Nucky would forgive. I'll be happy if season 3 ends as well but I do think the season has lacked a focal point this season and could have done with a character carrying an arc like Jimmy's. I think they have tried to do it with Nucky but I feel he's more mega-arc and needs another character as a foil. Not sure who they could have picked though - Owen would have felt too much like a re-tread. Richard seems too disconnected from Nucky (could have easily tweaked this) and Van alden is in another city. Maybe they could have made Rosetti the focal point? I think they were kind of stuck in that sense but I think season 4 would benefit from have one character get a whole story.

[Lord O' Bones]

I am inclined to agree with this, losing one eye would ruin your depth perception.

You don't need depth perception to fire a rifle. Certainly not through a scope.

[Francis Buck]

I'll admit, if you had told me that Jimmy was going to die a few minutes before the season finale started, I would have been pretty shocked. But as the episode went on, the sense of impending doom was too strong to ignore. I think once Richard said (not verbatim) "You know he'll never forgive you", I was pretty much preparing myself for him to die, but I didn't want to. By the time he had that final scene with his son riding the horse, I was basically certain. That being said, I thought his death scene was brilliantly handled and was a great send-off to the character. The cut-away, flash-back, hallucination, or whatever you want to call it, showing him finally "leaving the trenches", was awesome and heart-wrenching for me personally. Honestly, I don't think a character death has ever pissed me off more in any show/movie/book, although a large part of that was due to fear of the show becoming weak without his character. Fortunately my fears proved to be unfounded. I can't say I've really missed him at all (a similar sensation to certain character deaths from ASOIAF).