if the dothraki invaded westeros?

[E-Ro]

Point 1, that is simply incorrect. A sword is probably the worst kind of weapon for dealing with armor and a curved sword is no better at getting through plate or mail then a long sword. I don't know we're you are getting this from but I would love to know(unless your just making shit up as you go, but you wouldn't do that now, would you?)

Point 2 the lords simply cannot afford to keep weapons enough to arm and armor so many men. It's to expensive, furthermore why on earth would any lord in his right mind arm and armor untrained men with his best equipment? That's a shure fire way of never seeing any of that equipment ever again.

Point 3 the westeros I have bows too. And a hail of westerosi arrows will do far more damage to the dothraki then a dothraki hail of arrows due to the lack of armor. Also the dothraki bows won't outrange westeros bows unless they dismount and they don't dismount to fight.

Point 4 like I said the gold cloaks were untrained men pressed into combat and they run at the first sign of trouble. The rest of your examples are after hard fought battles for example the northern foot at the gf only run after kevan brings up his pikes, a hail of arrows hit them in the rear, and tywin brings in the reserve. The northern foot also kill half the mountain clans the mt clans are battle hardened and armed in lannister steel.

Point 5 grrm said numerous times that westeros is based on the Hundred Years' War and the wars of the roses, those armies are explained in the link a posted. I will post more quotes later.

[Barty]

Point 1, that is simply incorrect. A sword is probably the worst kind of weapon for dealing with armor and a curved sword is no better at getting through plate or mail then a long sword. I don't know we're you are getting this from but I would love to know(unless your just making shit up as you go, but you wouldn't do that now, would you?)

Point 2 the lords simply cannot afford to keep weapons enough to arm and armor so many men. It's to expensive, furthermore why on earth would any lord in his right mind arm and armor untrained men with his best equipment? That's a shure fire way of never seeing any of that equipment ever again.

Point 3 the westeros I have bows too. And a hail of westerosi arrows will do far more damage to the dothraki then a dothraki hail of arrows due to the lack of armor. Also the dothraki bows won't outrange westeros bows unless they dismount and they don't dismount to fight.

Point 4 like I said the gold cloaks were untrained men pressed into combat and they run at the first sign of trouble. The rest of your examples are after hard fought battles for example the northern foot at the gf only run after kevan brings up his pikes, a hail of arrows hit them in the rear, and tywin brings in the reserve. The northern foot also kill half the mountain clans the mt clans are battle hardened and armed in lannister steel.

Point 5 grrm said numerous times that westeros is based on the Hundred Years' War and the wars of the roses, those armies are explained in the link a posted. I will post more quotes later.

Actually most of the swords were designed for stabbing in the middle ages - stabbing swords can penetrate mail far easier than slashing swords. Longswords can be used to stab and if they are then there is a good chance of getting through mail - but a slashing weapon has no chance. So against mail the longsword is a far better option than the Arakh. And there is also the greatswords to consider - it probably doesn't matter whether they get through armor or not - 1 good hit with a 6 foot tall sword wielded by both hands and you're down and not coming back up.

[NewJeffCT]

No, thats incorrect. A common error. But I will explain it in depth. Here are the descriptions of robbs men, as well as tywins.

So from all that we can see the only non proffesional men are the vanguard in tywins force, the smallest portion of his army. The rest are all armed and armoured very well at a quality that would be impossible for most farmers to afford. Also note it says "half trained" when speaking of tywins left, indicating most of the men are in fact trained. Arms and armor in medival times were very expensive, most could not afford them unless they were being paid for service as a retainer. Here is a very helpful link for you to read http://www.wars-of-t...f_the_roses.htm

I hope this helps.

I see much description of the infantry being well armed, but nothing about them being armored. In fact, given that Martin goes to great length to describe how heavily armed and armored the knights and heavy horse were, you can say that it's possible the infantry had little to no armor. He even mentions the mounted archers as having leather jerkins. Given that, the infantry probably had less than even a leather jerkin for protection.

[Guardian of the Lhazareen]

Point 1, that is simply incorrect. A sword is probably the worst kind of weapon for dealing with armor and a curved sword is no better at getting through plate or mail then a long sword. I don't know we're you are getting this from but I would love to know(unless your just making shit up as you go, but you wouldn't do that now, would you?)

Point 2 the lords simply cannot afford to keep weapons enough to arm and armor so many men. It's to expensive, furthermore why on earth would any lord in his right mind arm and armor untrained men with his best equipment? That's a shure fire way of never seeing any of that equipment ever again.

Point 3 the westeros I have bows too. And a hail of westerosi arrows will do far more damage to the dothraki then a dothraki hail of arrows due to the lack of armor. Also the dothraki bows won't outrange westeros bows unless they dismount and they don't dismount to fight.

Point 4 like I said the gold cloaks were untrained men pressed into combat and they run at the first sign of trouble. The rest of your examples are after hard fought battles for example the northern foot at the gf only run after kevan brings up his pikes, a hail of arrows hit them in the rear, and tywin brings in the reserve. The northern foot also kill half the mountain clans the mt clans are battle hardened and armed in lannister steel.

Point 5 grrm said numerous times that westeros is based on the Hundred Years' War and the wars of the roses, those armies are explained in the link a posted. I will post more quotes later.

you're right that the Arkar isn't ideal for armour, my point is that it is actualy more effective a weapon than the majority of the members on this forum seem to pass it of as, especialy against leather, which is probably the most common type of armour used in a westeros army, this therefore should play into the hands of the dothraki.

Dothraki bows have greater range, they can fire from horse back and are briliant marksmen.

I don't understand your comment about expense, if the lords can afford to hire men to fight (e.g the bloody murmers) then i think they can afford to make the waepons. once that is donr there if no further cost. also if the lords can afford it then how can the peasants? yes we are talking about individual weapon production here, but still that will also be bejond the locals budget, even if it was why would he waste what little money he has on weapons to fight his lords wars, not for security as he could use farm tools for this. I feel that you have greatly misunderstood medeival sychology and logistics here. anyway you say yarda I say yay, I can see that this debate will never be resolved so I will just go on trusting in my studies of warfare.

[Makes No Sansa]

Jaime Lannister would have fought in the vanguard and he would have killed Khal Drogo. The khalassar would be fucked therefore, and the invasion would fail.

[Guardian of the Lhazareen]

Jaime Lannister would have fought in the vanguard and he would have killed Khal Drogo. The khalassar would be fucked therefore, and the invasion would fail.

if he were in the van he would be riddled with arrows or at least crushed by his fallen horse.

[Makes No Sansa]

if he were in the van he would be riddled with arrows or at least crushed by his fallen horse.

He wouldn't always be in the vanguard. Eventually he'd go forward and slay Khal Drogo with a single swing of his golden sword, trust me ;)

[Guardian of the Lhazareen]

He wouldn't always be in the vanguard. Eventually he'd go forward and slay Khal Drogo with a single swing of his golden sword, trust me ;)

or prehaps whilst he swung drogo would catch jamie's hands and re direct the blade on his throat and then rip out Jaime's tounge..... I prefer my end result :cool4:

[Makes No Sansa]

or prehaps whilst he swung drogo would catch jamie's hands and re direct the blade on his throat and then rip out Jaime's tounge..... I prefer my end result :cool4:

But Jaime's neck is protected, unlike Drogo's...

[NewJeffCT]

you're right that the Arkar isn't ideal for armour, my point is that it is actualy more effective a weapon than the majority of the members on this forum seem to pass it of as, especialy against leather, which is probably the most common type of armour used in a westeros army, this therefore should play into the hands of the dothraki.

Dothraki bows have greater range, they can fire from horse back and are briliant marksmen.

I don't understand your comment about expense, if the lords can afford to hire men to fight (e.g the bloody murmers) then i think they can afford to make the waepons. once that is donr there if no further cost. also if the lords can afford it then how can the peasants? yes we are talking about individual weapon production here, but still that will also be bejond the locals budget, even if it was why would he waste what little money he has on weapons to fight his lords wars, not for security as he could use farm tools for this. I feel that you have greatly misunderstood medeival sychology and logistics here. anyway you say yarda I say yay, I can see that this debate will never be resolved so I will just go on trusting in my studies of warfare.

And, when Tyrion talks about getting steel weapons for the Mountain Clans, they're from Lord Tywin and his smiths, not a few here & there from each minor lord on up the chain.

[Guardian of the Lhazareen]

And, when Tyrion talks about getting steel weapons for the Mountain Clans, they're from Lord Tywin and his smiths, not a few here & there from each minor lord on up the chain.

Great Point :cheers:

[E-Ro]

I see much description of the infantry being well armed, but nothing about them being armored. In fact, given that Martin goes to great length to describe how heavily armed and armored the knights and heavy horse were, you can say that it's possible the infantry had little to no armor. He even mentions the mounted archers as having leather jerkins. Given that, the infantry probably had less than even a leather jerkin for protection.

Actually every northman tyrion fights is described as being in mail.

[Lord Warhammer]

The Dothraki wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell. The Westerosi would probably just unite and kill them all. It would only take 2 great houses to throw them back. Lets just say Tyrell and Martell thats a different fight than the khalasars are used to. More organization and structure that alone would render the bararism useless. one great house would suffice but two would be an absolute slaughter.

[NewJeffCT]

The Dothraki wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell. The Westerosi would probably just unite and kill them all. It would only take 2 great houses to throw them back. Lets just say Tyrell and Martell thats a different fight than the khalasars are used to. More organization and structure that alone would render the bararism useless. one great house would suffice but two would be an absolute slaughter.

Why did Robert so fear the Dothraki when he heard of Dany & Viserys aligning with them? If they were undisciplined rabble, Robert would not have been concerned about them.

Why did Jorah initially not think the Dothraki had a chance, but then changed his mind after seeing them in action? Because he knows how good they really are.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

The Dothraki wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell. The Westerosi would probably just unite and kill them all. It would only take 2 great houses to throw them back. Lets just say Tyrell and Martell thats a different fight than the khalasars are used to. More organization and structure that alone would render the bararism useless. one great house would suffice but two would be an absolute slaughter.

I'd say some middling houses would suffice. No Great Houses needed at all.

[E-Ro]

And, when Tyrion talks about getting steel weapons for the Mountain Clans, they're from Lord Tywin and his smiths, not a few here & there from each minor lord on up the chain.

How do you know it's all from tywin? The lannisters had just fought the rivelords it makes sense they would have extra arms and armor looted from the dead. Also house lannister is the wealthiest house by far, it's no surprise they would have extra arms and armor to outfit 300 men on short notice, the assumption that every house in westeros could do so is silly.

[E-Ro]

It's hard for me to properly respond on a phone, but I have posted numerous sources from the text to an outside source. At this point I'm not sure what else to say, later I will post the gf battle and explain to you how professional the northern infantry was as well as tywins whole army.

[E-Ro]

Why did Robert so fear the Dothraki when he heard of Dany & Viserys aligning with them? If they were undisciplined rabble, Robert would not have been concerned about them.

Why did Jorah initially not think the Dothraki had a chance, but then changed his mind after seeing them in action? Because he knows how good they really are.

Robert feared other houses joining the dothraki not the dothraki themselves. And besides the dothraki have not fought a real army in a while they usually fight lamb men, remember the descriptions of Essie's armies? They are a big joke, men on stilts and slaves chained together is hardly a tough foe. In dance during the fighting pit openings there is a battle between 12 dothraki mounted and 12 knights from westeros the knights win.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Why did Robert so fear the Dothraki when he heard of Dany & Viserys aligning with them? If they were undisciplined rabble, Robert would not have been concerned about them.

Why did Jorah initially not think the Dothraki had a chance, but then changed his mind after seeing them in action? Because he knows how good they really are.

Because he a) expected 100,000 instead of 40,000, B) he heard from them only by (overblown) reputation, c) cleaning up the dregs scattered through the continent and raiding the smallfolk would be long and make him unpopular and d) no risk is still better than a minuscule risk.

Please read Jorah's statement carefully, especially for the subtext. My translation: "Now, I'm in love with you and want to see you upon the Iron Throne. So, if Robert is an complete idiot, no one can reign him in despite having done so during the Rebellion, a bunch of noble houses join your side despite having to ally with barbarians/assholes par excellence, the war will be over after a single battle, without Starks, Lannisters, Arryns, Tullys and Baratheons resisting after Bob is dead, with a great deal of luck, maybe the Dothraki would have some tiny winy chance. Please, please Old Gods, let it happen."

That's wishful thinking, nothing else.

[E-Ro]

Also arrows can't pierce plate have a very tough time getting through mail and padded jacks ( what most men would be wearing) are also good protection against arrows. The dothraki wear no armor at all they will die in droves once the first volley is fired, they're horses will die too.

As for dothraki bows out ranging westerosi ones perhaps if the dothraki dismounted to fire them, but they don't they fire from horseback so the westerosi will in fact outrange them.