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Eddard's Letter


wolfmaid7

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I believe context points to "his eyes" being Mormont's. If Martin were referring to the bird he would/should use "its eyes."

It's a very interesting possibility and one I had not considered.

However, could Ned have been trying to warn Rob to not attack and concede also?

I'm currently about to start my first reread. So, maybe I'll glean more after doing that.

I just wondered, because I can't quite remember, whether Ned even knew his son was making his way towards KL with a host or not.

Thanks very much for looking....Lent my books out so i'm kinda working from memory of things that bugged me.

As too your theory, i did think of that at first, but the little movements and play on words and non verbal cues in Martin's writing always make me wonder; maybe a little too much at times.

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Ok How ? I've heard others speculate that Varys may know because he was 'master of whispers" but that is not an answer. You said in your opinion he knew,what is your opinion based on? Factually speaking of-course?

Well, I think one of the strongests arguments for R+L=J is that there were three men of the Kingsguard were protecting Lianna in the Tower of Joy. If Varys knew were they were and who they were protecting, he might have had some suspicions
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What if the letter was for Robb and it told him to stop fighting and Varys didn't send it because he wanted the Lannisters weakened for Aegon?

"Son, do not rebel against the Iron Throne"? Then Ned wouldn't need to ask Varys for assistance, Cersei would be happy to send that message.

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Well, I think one of the strongests arguments for R+L=J is that there were three men of the Kingsguard were protecting Lianna in the Tower of Joy. If Varys knew were they were and who they were protecting, he might have had some suspicions

That is possible, but Varys had said something telling.That is he will use the information in a way that best suit him. I believe that statement!

To sum this up, he knows that Jon is a Stark/Targ and he's in the process or have set into motion a way to use that to his own end when it suits.This info could come by him being master of whispers as you say.

So he's known all this time,and he's deciding when and where to use this information. Thus his entire dialogue with Ned was just a mummer's farce?

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"Son, do not rebel against the Iron Throne"? Then Ned wouldn't need to ask Varys for assistance, Cersei would be happy to send that message.

That makes a lot of sense, considering it might have also had an even greater chance of preserving Ned's life.

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Ned wrote the letter, telling Jon his true parentage. Varys read it and, whether he already knew or not, felt getting Ned to the Wall to further school his 'son' best served his own interests, given that he wants the Lannisters to fail.

In the CoK chapter, where Tyrion sends Janos to the Wall, Varys is very sincere in that Ned's decapitation was a complete surprise to him, given he'd persuaded cersei to get Ned to the Wall.

It's one of the few times I actually believe what he's saying. I think Ned and Jon at the Wall, allied with Jon Connington and co, would have suited his plot no end.

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Ned wrote the letter, telling Jon his true parentage. Varys read it and, whether he already knew or not, felt getting Ned to the Wall to further school his 'son' best served his own interests, given that he wants the Lannisters to fail.

There is a bit of a problem with that, in that Varys was already trying to get Ned to the Wall before Ned ever wrote this putative letter.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Nothing much to add here but I guess it supports wolfmaid's "crackpot" theory that Jon had no other way of hearing about his parentage whereas even if Mormont had not informed him that Robb had called his banners he would have heard it from outside in any event.

I certainly think this theory is something to ponder.

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Nothing much to add here but I guess it supports wolfmaid's "crackpot" theory that Jon had no other way of hearing about his parentage whereas even if Mormont had not informed him that Robb had called his banners he would have heard it from outside in any event.

I certainly think this theory is something to ponder.

Thank you Clariana, i think that Varys is a dark horse; he seems to know the value of knowledge.He is playing the game of thrones very well and it would help his cause a lot if he had a potential ace(Jon) within reach-though Jon's purpose is not wrapped up in the Game of Thrones-From what i've seen of Varys he hasn't really lied and i respect him for telling Ned his intentions concerning the letter-if Ned wrote it- But from Mormont's non verbal actions that i listed earlier i will throw in that the letter was written and it was sent to the Wall. I believe Mormont read it.Him choosing not to inform Jon is keeping his oath as he did interfere in matters of the crown.
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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

If Ned did write a letter it would have been to his bannerman Howland Reed. Ned didnt trust Varys so he wouldnt have openly revealed Jons secrets. However a letter to Reed who was present and the only adult survivor of ToJ could have been coded "Howland look out for my children and dont forget Jon, promise me..."

See what I did there? Howland would have picked up on it and ensured Jon was told in the right way and thats not by Ravenmail.

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After the fire at the wall when Mormont comes to Jon to check on him, Jon asks if there had been a letter and Mormont said yes. John then asked if there was any news of his father, and Mormont aswered something like " Don't you think I would have told you? Bastard or no, he's still your blood." Mormont then goes on about the letter saying that is was concerning Ser Barriston and let's it slip during that conversation that Pycelle had not answered his letter requesting men for the NW. He never does say who sent the letter. At least that's how I read into it. Could this have been a letter from Varys?

This does make me wonder what Mormont and Aemon know of Jon, giving him Valaryen steel and prepping him for command.

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After the fire at the wall when Mormont comes to Jon to check on him, Jon asks if there had been a letter and Mormont said yes. John then asked if there was any news of his father, and Mormont aswered something like " Don't you think I would have told you? Bastard or no, he's still your blood." Mormont then goes on about the letter saying that is was concerning Ser Barriston and let's it slip during that conversation that Pycelle had not answered his letter requesting men for the NW. He never does say who sent the letter. At least that's how I read into it. Could this have been a letter from Varys?

This does make me wonder what Mormont and Aemon know of Jon, giving him Valaryen steel and prepping him for command.

That is an amazing catch , he does sound rather defensive doesn't he? Why would he say bastard or "no" " he is still your blood"it suppose to be common knowledge that Ned is his father. Definitely lends to my theory that Mormont found out and chose to keep it from Jon.So that means Varys definitely knew, and he is free to do with that info with what he likes. Nice catch Starbringer
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That is an amazing catch , he does sound rather defensive doesn't he? Why would he say bastard or "no" " he is still your blood"it suppose to be common knowledge that Ned is his father. Definitely lends to my theory that Mormont found out and chose to keep it from Jon.So that means Varys definitely knew, and he is free to do with that info with what he likes. Nice catch Starbringer

I feel that Benjen also knew, and he probably told Mormont (especially after Jon decided to go to the Wall with Ben). And we also know that Aemon and Rhaegar were in contact with one another, so it's also quite possible that Aemon knew as well, and he might also have found it prudent to inform Mormont

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I feel that Benjen also knew, and he probably told Mormont (especially after Jon decided to go to the Wall with Ben). And we also know that Aemon and Rhaegar were in contact with one another, so it's also quite possible that Aemon knew as well, and he might also have found it prudent to inform Mormont

I wonder if the NW oath to not take part in the affairs of kings kept them from telling Jon?
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Very off topic, but it's remarkable that Varys convinced Cersei to allow Ned to take the black. Consider:

1) As far as Cersei knew, Ned was the only person alive aside from her and Jaime that knew the truth about her children (of course, we as readers knew about Stannis, but Cersei didn't at that time). She's risking everything based on Varys' words and her impression of Ned Stark being a man of honor.

2) Ned would have never made it to the Wall. In order to get there, he and his accompanying party (which would have presumably been sizable) would have had to pass through the Stark-friendly Riverlands, the Stark-fortified Neck, and the entirety of the Stark-friendly North including directly past Winterfell in order to reach the Wall, which Starks have manned for 8000 years. Additionally, Robb had already massed a host of 20,000 seasoned men which would have stood directly in their path at that point (or close enough to where they could have intercepted Ned's party). While it's true that Sansa was still in King's Landing, providing a degree of leverage, that's a HUGE risk for Cersei to take.

Speaks to the powers of Varys' persuasion. Cersei at this point in the story is one of the more cunning players in the series.

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Very off topic, but it's remarkable that Varys convinced Cersei to allow Ned to take the black. Consider:

1) As far as Cersei knew, Ned was the only person alive aside from her and Jaime that knew the truth about her children (of course, we as readers knew about Stannis, but Cersei didn't at that time). She's risking everything based on Varys' words and her impression of Ned Stark being a man of honor.

2) Ned would have never made it to the Wall. In order to get there, he and his accompanying party (which would have presumably been sizable) would have had to pass through the Stark-friendly Riverlands, the Stark-fortified Neck, and the entirety of the Stark-friendly North including directly past Winterfell in order to reach the Wall, which Starks have manned for 8000 years. Additionally, Robb had already massed a host of 20,000 seasoned men which would have stood directly in their path at that point (or close enough to where they could have intercepted Ned's party). While it's true that Sansa was still in King's Landing, providing a degree of leverage, that's a HUGE risk for Cersei to take.

Speaks to the powers of Varys' persuasion. Cersei at this point in the story is one of the more cunning players in the series.

I'm pretty sure she would have arranged for him and his kin to meet an end at the Wall, Ned was a dead man the moment he opened his mouth to Cersie. There was no way she would risk him blabbing i think in her mind sending him to the Wall would have saved face,but Geoffrey was quick to pull the trigger.
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