Theories that are (as far as the board is concerned) are fact that you disagree with

[linesofblaschko]

I don't see how it's a waste of talent- Bran can arguably do more good looking through the Weirwoods than being laid up in a bed somewhere. He's immensely useful as a Bloodraven type figure, and can still presumably warg out. That's part of why I don't see him leaving, plot-wise. Not everyone is destined to be a knight or lord, that's kind of the whole point, right?

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

Well, it can be hard to tell sometimes what the board considers "fact". Some threads seem to indicate that most people on the board think something, when it's actually just a few people.

<snip>

I think I would call it a numbers game, based on number of people that say they subscribe to a theory, in full or in part, outside 'back up' (like the Tower of the Hand people), & strength of evidence. (More on this later.)

I don't believe that Bran is ever coming out of that tree. Everyone talks about him as a possible successor to Winterfell or the Iron Throne or whatever, but it seemed pretty clear to me that he was going to spend the rest of his time wrapped up in the roots just like BR before him.

that is a theory i am so afraid of :crying:

ME too - Bloodraven is so freaking awesome, Bran too, it really feels like a waste of amazing talent.

I don't see how it's a waste of talent- Bran can arguably do more good looking through the Weirwoods than being laid up in a bed somewhere. He's immensely useful as a Bloodraven type figure, and can still presumably warg out. That's part of why I don't see him leaving, plot-wise. Not everyone is destined to be a knight or lord, that's kind of the whole point, right?

Maybe he doesn't have to be a lord or a knight, but I don't see why he can't warg into the trees & still live a full life. Once the Others are gone & Westeros is set right, why should he just sit there & let roots grow into him?

Anyway here are some of what can be considered "fact" by the board:

• Jon is alive or will be resurrected- "Plot armor"is the main argument for this one, he hasn't really finished his story line, there are amble clues that he has a future role in the story, & the only other 'main' character to die in their own POV was Cat, & she got brought back! (Arguably Six skins did too.)
  
• R+L=J- Let's face it...it's been picked over & examined more than just about anything else! Every word checked for nuance, every dream deciphered for meaning, every prophecy interpreted. Experts weigh in. The works.
  
• Young Griff isn't the Aegon- There was the Mummer's Dragon thing, the rusted sign, the "how the heck could they pull that off, & why didn't they save his sister too?" thing, there's the fact that we know the Wars of the Roses is partial inspiration for ASOIAF & it had a fake King.
  

Less popular :

• Jojen paste- It's only on here because people were late to rebut it! There is no reason to do that!
  
• Septa Lemore is Ashara Dayne- a personal favorite of mine (I came up with the theory before checking back to see if anyone else did so it wasn't 'colored' by other opinions) it's based on what we have learned about AD & her brother,what's described...& isn't described...& maybe a little wishful thinking.
  

Wildcard:

• Jojen has to die-he seems to be set up to die, by his own prophetic dreams...but is he the reverse of Ned? A "what the heck...he lives?" moment would be nice.
  
• Varys as a Blackfyre-Well no direct evidence of it, it wouldn't make sense on many levels, but it isn't totally out of the question.
  

Crackpot:

• Lannister's are secret Targs-It would be very pointless.
  

[Faint]

The only theory that a majority of posters on this forum take as a fact is that Jon is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, which I agree with.

Everything else listed on this thread is at best taken as fact by perhaps a quarter of posters and in most cases a much smaller minority than even that.

EDIT: I'm excluding things taken as fact about Daenerys Targaryen because many posters have become positively deranged when it comes to her.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

The only theory that a majority of posters on this forum take as a fact is that Jon is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, which I agree with.

Everything else listed on this thread is at best taken as fact by perhaps a quarter of posters and in most cases a much smaller minority than even that.

EDIT: I'm excluding things taken as fact about Daenerys Targaryen because many posters have become positively deranged when it comes to her.

& you would put Jon is alive or will be resurrected down as only a quarter of the posters or less? :rolleyes:

[Faint]

& you would put Jon is alive or will be resurrected down as only a quarter of the posters or less? :rolleyes:

Actually, I'd not thought about that one but even there, I think opinions as to his fate divide in a half a dozen directions, neither garnering anywhere close to majority support (i.e., died but will be resurrected, never died, died and will stay dead, etc.).

[Santa]

I'm a regular ole human as far as I know. No blood of the dragon or wolf or lion for me. Yes, I'm quite smug. But I more have a crazy high opinion of those that got lumped into the 'lunatics' category. Them are some smart, thoughtful and super cool folks.

Ok, I will remember your thoughtfullness, intelligence, and analytical skills later, when LF doesnt need any Tysha for his plans with Sansa.

;)

[jons nissa]

Maybe he doesn't have to be a lord or a knight, but I don't see why he can't warg into the trees & still live a full life. Once the Others are gone & Westeros is set right, why should he just sit there & let roots grow into him?

because the other cotf that we see did that? sounds like a weak excuse but it hasn't really been explained why they don't move around and allowed roots to grow into them. could be that one can't leave once one "commits". or perhaps one doesn't wish to leave? that would support your idea that he would still have a full life.

it just seems like such a sad existence for a 9 year old boy. more like something one does AFTER living a full life rather than being confined to it.

[Danelle]

I don't believe that Jeyne Westerling is pregnant with Robb's child.

Although there are certain threads that offer evidence, I am not really convinced. It might be true but it might not. In any case this would be the addition of yet another storyline and I would much prefer to have a resolution in current storylines than open an entire new chapter focusing on new characters(Jeyne and the Westerlings are not new though but they appear only briefly)

[Lord Martin]

Just because he doesn't repeat it at the end of that chapter. Surprised to hear about the app thing, gotta go read that thread.

Otherwise I don't take anything as fact when it comes to illyrio and varys, we just don't have enough clues.

Are there any theories as fact around quaithe ? I don't think I've ever even seen any crackpots for her

Isn't there a crackpot out there that Quaithe is Shiera Seastar? Haven't read the novellas, but I understand her to be one of the Great Bastards.

[jons nissa]

I don't believe that Jeyne Westerling is pregnant with Robb's child.

Although there are certain threads that offer evidence, I am not really convinced. It might be true but it might not. In any case this would be the addition of yet another storyline and I would much prefer to have a resolution in current storylines than open an entire new chapter focusing on new characters(Jeyne and the Westerlings are not new though but they appear only briefly)

this is all but been debunked according to the new app:

Is Jeyne Westerling Pregnant

"Innocent of her mother's plot, Jeyne regularly takes a posset her mother gives her after the marriage, which Sybell claims will promote fertility but in fact prevents her from conceiving."

[Danelle]

this is all but been debunked according to the new app:

Is Jeyne Westerling Pregnant

"Innocent of her mother's plot, Jeyne regularly takes a posset her mother gives her after the marriage, which Sybell claims will promote fertility but in fact prevents her from conceiving."

Thanks!

So, in that case more or less the Jeyne Westerling is pregnant with Robb's heir theory is no longer valid. Does this also mean that the girl that Jaime met at Riverrun is the same girl that Cat described? Does it really matter though?

[Ponys123]

... and I don't believe Jon is dead

No one does. Even the people who think he is dead for now think he'll be resurrected. GRRM won't kill off the protagonist.

[Buried Treasure]

There are perhaps a few more things that are widely believed:

• Robb's heir was named as Jon. I don't believe this.
  
• Gregor actually died, which I think is a majority belief - I think e was semi- healed from the brink of death.
  

Also Cersei killing her childhood friend Melara. Im not sure everybody even picked up on it being murder rather than accident biut those that did mostly think she did it cos Melara was interested in Jaime, I disagree and think it was because Melara heard the prophecy Cersei was given.

[jons nissa]

There are perhaps a few more things that are widely believed:

• Robb's heir was named as Jon. I don't believe this.
  

this has been debunked by the new app as well (although i thought it was clear that jon had been named by cat's statement after seeing the will):

Robb’s Will and Jon’s de-bastardization

Robb legitimized Jon and named him his heir in the will. Along the way, he concludes that he must make sure Winterfell has an heir should anything happen to him, and over Catelyn's objections legitimizes Jon Snow and names him his heir. He signs the decree before witnesses, then sends Galbart Glover and Maege Mormont to carry the word north.

eta:

Thanks!

So, in that case more or less the Jeyne Westerling is pregnant with Robb's heir theory is no longer valid. Does this also mean that the girl that Jaime met at Riverrun is the same girl that Cat described? Does it really matter though?

no one has mentioned info of this in the app. i think there was another girl but i'm not sure it really matters anymore.

[Buried Treasure]

About the new app, I use Android so haven't been using it, so I'm somewhat unclear on where the info is coming from. Presumably George is too busy to have personally written it himself, but he will have agreed to it. But will he have vetted every entry himself?? The amount of topics I have seen referencing the new app would suggest it is pretty extensive and even vetting would be very time consuming in itself. So what I'm asking is, is there any possibility that the composers of the app have unwittingly put their own interpretations into the entries? For instance, if George did not personally write or agree to the entry on Robb's will then there could a confirmation bias going on because the composer of that entry is amongst the 99% that have interpreted what is actually in the book as saying Jon is Robb's heir, and the reader of the app is thinking new information has been provided by the author.

If I sound skeptical it is because Robb not naming Jon is my baby and I don't want to give it up, but I am also asking a genuine question about the validity of information coming from the app.

[jons nissa]

About the new app, I use Android so haven't been using it, so I'm somewhat unclear on where the info is coming from. Presumably George is too busy to have personally written it himself, but he will have agreed to it. But will he have vetted every entry himself?? The amount of topics I have seen referencing the new app would suggest it is pretty extensive and even vetting would be very time consuming in itself. So what I'm asking is, is there any possibility that the composers of the app have unwittingly put their own interpretations into the entries? For instance, if George did not personally write or agree to the entry on Robb's will then there could a confirmation bias going on because the composer of that entry is amongst the 99% that have interpreted what is actually in the book as saying Jon is Robb's heir, and the reader of the app is thinking new information has been provided by the author.

If I sound skeptical it is because Robb not naming Jon is my baby and I don't want to give it up, but I am also asking a genuine question about the validity of information coming from the app.

from Dr. Pepper:

You should probably take a look at the first post in this thread. We made a section about the legitimacy of the app. There are several links, including one to his blog, that illustrate exactly what 'official' means. The app was not only approved by GRRM, it was also something he actively worked on. Ran has also piped in several times to let us know about certain typos. I'd suggest reading the entirety of this thread, as well as it's predecessor.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/77776-stuff-thats-confirmedhinted-at-in-awoiaf-app-v2/page__st__300

just read the stuff that's confirmed thread. they state the app states not only was jon named but that there were witnesses that were sent to the north to spread the word. here is the whole section from the app:

Robb Stark:

<...>

Following the ailing Lord Hoster Tully's death, Lothar Frey arrives from the Twins to negotiate a settlement with Robb. Lord Walder insists that Edmure, the new Lord of Riverrun, wed one of his daughters and that Robb offer an apology for breaking his word. Lady Catelyn counsels Robb to accept the terms. So, leaving Jeyne behind with her mother, Robb marches to the Twins for Edmure's wedding. Along the way, he concludes that he must make sure Winterfell has an heir should anything happen to him, and over Catelyn's objections legitimizes Jon Snow and names him his heir. He signs the decree before witnesses, then sends Galbart Glover and Maege Mormont to carry the word north. At the same time, Robb learns of Balon Greyjoy's death and discusses his plans for using the crannogmen to attack Moat Cailin from the swamp side.

so i'm curious, what's your theory about who robb named?

[Buried Treasure]

Thanks for the link about the app, I'll check it out.

My theory is that Robb named Harrion Karstark, if you are interested in details I go on about it in basically every Robb's will thread in the past 2 years, for instance here and here and here. It is just a theory, it's not stated or even implied in the text.

Setting the app aside for the moment, Robb naming Jon is strongly implied by the text but never outright stated. He tells Cat it will be Jon in an earlier scene but no name at all is given at the will-signing nor is it ever discussed later (and Cat would not have signed the will as she holds no estate so would not necessarily have been granted the opportunity to read it). Also never stated - nor even implied - is Glover and Mormont being sent to carry word north. They were being sent to Greywater Watch to reunite with Robb before the battle of Moat Cailin, they were not intended to reenter the north proper before Robb himself and the rest of the army. The fact that they witnessed the will and were en route to Greywater Watch became relevant only after Robb died and all the other signatories were killed or captured - leaving them the only free agents with that knowledge.

[jons nissa]

Thanks for the link about the app, I'll check it out.

My theory is that Robb named Harrion Karstark, if you are interested in details I go on about it in basically every Robb's will thread in the past 2 years, for instance here and here and here. It is just a theory, it's not stated or even implied in the text.

Setting the app aside for the moment, Robb naming Jon is strongly implied by the text but never outright stated. He tells Cat it will be Jon in an earlier scene but no name at all is given at the will-signing nor is it ever discussed later (and Cat would not have signed the will as she holds no estate so would not necessarily have been granted the opportunity to read it). Also never stated - nor even implied - is Glover and Mormont being sent to carry word north. They were being sent to Greywater Watch to reunite with Robb before the battle of Moat Cailin, they were not intended to reenter the north proper before Robb himself and the rest of the army. The fact that they witnessed the will and were en route to Greywater Watch became relevant only after Robb died and all the other signatories were killed or captured - leaving them the only free agents with that knowledge.

i look forward to reading your theory. yes, you're right it's never outright stated but when cat see's what robb's written and replies "and now you are a king" (or something like that) i took it as grrm-ese for jon's been named a stark and heir since it is only a king that can make a bastard legitimate. later on when asked, grrm also says in ssm "only a king can make a bastard legit" which again, i took for code that jon was named.

otherwise, nothing was ever said openly. i really think grrm likes keeping it vague so we will keep talking about it.

[Ozzy.Ze]

I believe in R+L=J but I don't want it to be true.

Same for Aegon.

[Ingelheim]

I believe in R+L=J but I don't want it to be true.

Same for Aegon.

I agree with this. Jon is Raeghar's son, but I don't like it.