The Flowering of Arya - Impact on Her character development

[Woman of War]

.........(people were binding breasts well before the invention of sports bras) or simply go bra-less under a baggy top – breasts are a lot less obvious when they're not served up on a platter by Victoria's Secret. Then that woman has to stop doing all the plucking and primping that women do to look feminine......

LOL, you are so right! Someone has to remind us that all that plucking and pimping is in fact a social construct and that we women are free to do it or leave it without being less female (kick the word "feminine" out of the window, it is inaccurate).

Oh yeah, sometimes, or very often, I love to pimp myself up but we should not forget that this is roleplay and not an inherently female automatism. Thanks for the reminder.

P.S, at the moment I am lazily hanging around in my son's old jeans, too unfashionable for him since last week.

[Alia of the knife]

Sure, and binding breasts are helpful in trying to disguise oneself as a man, but I'm also talking about the "mechanics" of having such a build and trying to be physical.

Thats actually the purpose of a "sports bra."

Taking again my mother for example, (this is actually my source since I didn't end up with such a build).

My mom, on paper, was one of those rare women who was naturally slender, BUT also was well endowed. Yeah, she did stop traffic sometimes- and she HATED it.

She was 125 pounds, with a "handspan" waist, and she used to complain her breasts were half that.

She was an Intensive Care Nurse which is already a strenuous job, and though you may have the Doctors, or Male Nurses on hand to sometimes help in lifting male patients, sometimes, depending upon what might have happened, she was in a position where she had to try and help lift them, or shift them herself.

I can't tell you what that coupled with carrying around much of her weight in breasts did to her back, as well as the bleeding grooves left in her shoulders.

She also had to sleep in a bra for support.

If she could have had the option of a reduction, she would have done it in a hot second.

So, the physical practicalities of maturation, and the impact it could have on Arya's ability to perform is also the question, however, I'm sure Martin will figure a way around that.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

My mom, on paper, was one of those rare women who was naturally slender, BUT also was well

So, the physical practicalities of maturation, and the impact it could have on Arya's ability to perform is also the question, however, I'm sure Martin will figure a way around that.

I thought the issue was whether maturation would interfere with Arya's ability to hide her identity, not whether it would affect her ability to perform -- whatever. Arya's not a Brienne-style warrior, or even an Asha, or one of the Mormonts, none of whom were crippled by adulthood, so Arya, who depends on stealth rather than strength, shouldn't be hindered by her developing bosom either.

I think what bothers me about these "Arya will change [into a dress] when she becomes a woman" arguments is that they sometimes (notice I'm not saying always) speak of womanhood like it's some kind of disability, like Arya will have to become more like a lady (read: like Sansa) because she just won't be able to do anything else. However everything that makes Arya Arya is just being reinforced or focused, like her independence and her ferocity, or becoming stronger, like her warging. Meanwhile her motivation hasn't changed -- her parents and oldest brother are still dead, most of the people responsible for their deaths are still alive, and she's still far away from Winterfell. So I don't see anything in her future that will change her direction, including her "flowering."

[Alia of the knife]

I thought the issue was whether maturation would interfere with Arya's ability to hide her identity, not whether it would affect her ability to perform -- whatever. Arya's not a Brienne-style warrior, or even an Asha, or one of the Mormonts, none of whom were crippled by adulthood, so Arya, who depends on stealth rather than strength, shouldn't be hindered by her developing bosom either.

I think what bothers me about these "Arya will change [into a dress] when she becomes a woman" arguments is that they sometimes (notice I'm not saying always) speak of womanhood like it's some kind of disability, like Arya will have to become more like a lady (read: like Sansa) because she just won't be able to do anything else. However everything that makes Arya Arya is just being reinforced or focused, like her independence and her ferocity, or becoming stronger, like her warging. Meanwhile her motivation hasn't changed -- her parents and oldest brother are still dead, most of the people responsible for their deaths are still alive, and she's still far away from Winterfell. So I don't see anything in her future that will change her direction, including her "flowering."

I think it's "all the above" in terms of how the process of maturing, (flowering) affects her path; the physical, the mental and the environment vs. those factors.

So, I don't think that Arya is going to be just "this," or going to be just "that."

She will probably be a little bit of everything, not being confined to one role, or definition.

I also happen to think the same happens with Sansa, so with a bit of possible role reversal, you could see the personalities of both sisters begin to blend at times.

Watching both Sisters function outside their comfort zones to survive is much more interesting to observe in terms of character development than watching them do what is predictable within the confines of assumptions and what has become expected by the fan base.

One of the things that Maisie Williams said about the character is that "Arya" is one of the most misunderstood characters in the book, and that while she was a "tomboy," she was not necessarily deliberately disobediant, but that she was just wanted answers. The character doesn't like a lot of "faffe" as Williams put it. She's very "black and white," and in that way, like Ned.

Williams also said that while she was re-watching the scene where they were at home, at dinner with the Kings family, and "Arya" was throwing the food, it was extremely poignant because it emphasizes the fact that perhaps Arya as well didn't know what she had until it was gone.

In this same book, it was also stated that Winterfell and the Starks are deliberately and absolutely one of the most normal families in the kingdom; solid, devoted to each other, and enduring, right down to the way Winterfell Castle was depicted. They have some problems, but by and large, they are the anomaly in a Kingdom where most families use one another and are dysfunctional.

To me as a reader, that was very illuminating because Sansa gets alot of criticism for not appreciating Winterfell and what she had, but in Aryas own way, she too wanted things other than what she had, so for both Sisters, Winterfell and their identities will most likely become more solidified even as they're put in positions to be other people and forget who they are.

Now, I suppose you could argue whether the Actress has anymore insight into the characters ultimate destiny than the fanboys/girls, but I imagine she'd have some idea what Martin intends for Arya, or what he wants people to take away from the character.

[Old-Growth]

It's the Jade Compendium, and it got nothing to do with Jon's heritage. In fact, it is about Azor Azhai and Lightbringer, some hints that Stannis' sword is fake.

Maybe such hints, but more an explanation for Jon of what Melisandre is on about.

[Woman of War]

Interesting post, Alia. I am not sure if I agree with everything but thank you for giving me fodder for thought.

[Alia of the knife]

Interesting post, Alia. I am not sure if I agree with everything but thank you for giving me fodder for thought.

Thats okay. :laugh:

I'm pretty chill about that aspect of discussion, speculation and debate. I don't require people to agree with me to get along with me, because everyone has a different opinion and I could be completely wrong.

I don't even care if I'm wrong as long as I finally get the answers, lol.

The only thing I take exception to is "tone," and how people debate, because it should be about the topic and not become about the person, which thankfully, doesn't seem to happen that much on these boards.

[Sunni]

I see Arya (one of my favorite characters) as someone who has been tested. There's a good reason the other POV characters think she's dead; she's traversed a war zone, and with with the least protection of anyone. Few people of any age would have survived. All of her "killing" has either been to defend herself, to defend the North, (it's a war, afterall) or to carry on Northern traditions. The insurance man is the only exception.

I think her coming of age will create an organic growth to her journey. I DON'T see her as someone who would ever be married against her will. She's quick of mind and foot, good with a blade and, as she demonstrated after Yoren's death, content to live in the woods eating worms, if necessary. How can you coerce a woman like that?

I see her as a Stark, a Northerner. I think that will always be a part of her. She also likes to learn. She's not a book learner, but she repeats Sylvio's words and those of her father. She practices "water dancing" diligently. Studying with the FM is another example, IMO, and not a permanent path or a loss of identity. When she "hears voices" as another poster mentioned, I think it shows how she's connected to the weirwoods, the old gods, and the North.

The story started with all the Stark children together and then quickly scattered them to the winds. I'm hoping that all the Starks will mature into their warging - tree listening - northern magic selves and be able to work together as a pack before the end of the books. They will each have matured and developed some extraordinary skills that should serve them well. Since the rest of the world seems to have forgotten Old Nan's tales, they may also have the best idea of the danger of the Others.

[Quiet Isle]

I see Arya (one of my favorite characters) as someone who has been tested. There's a good reason the other POV characters think she's dead; she's traversed a war zone, and with with the least protection of anyone. Few people of any age would have survived. All of her "killing" has either been to defend herself, to defend the North, (it's a war, afterall) or to carry on Northern traditions. The insurance man is the only exception.

I think her coming of age will create an organic growth to her journey. I DON'T see her as someone who would ever be married against her will. She's quick of mind and foot, good with a blade and, as she demonstrated after Yoren's death, content to live in the woods eating worms, if necessary. How can you coerce a woman like that?

I see her as a Stark, a Northerner. I think that will always be a part of her. She also likes to learn. She's not a book learner, but she repeats Sylvio's words and those of her father. She practices "water dancing" diligently. Studying with the FM is another example, IMO, and not a permanent path or a loss of identity. When she "hears voices" as another poster mentioned, I think it shows how she's connected to the weirwoods, the old gods, and the North.

The story started with all the Stark children together and then quickly scattered them to the winds. I'm hoping that all the Starks will mature into their warging - tree listening - northern magic selves and be able to work together as a pack before the end of the books. They will each have matured and developed some extraordinary skills that should serve them well. Since the rest of the world seems to have forgotten Old Nan's tales, they may also have the best idea of the danger of the Others.

All the characters are tested. If life is a "great testing ground" of the ability to act nobly, in deference to others, and take care of the earth, then this series covers it all. brilliant.

[Quiet Isle]

I see Arya (one of my favorite characters) as someone who has been tested. There's a good reason the other POV characters think she's dead; she's traversed a war zone, and with with the least protection of anyone. Few people of any age would have survived. All of her "killing" has either been to defend herself, to defend the North, (it's a war, afterall) or to carry on Northern traditions. The insurance man is the only exception.

I think her coming of age will create an organic growth to her journey. I DON'T see her as someone who would ever be married against her will. She's quick of mind and foot, good with a blade and, as she demonstrated after Yoren's death, content to live in the woods eating worms, if necessary. How can you coerce a woman like that?

I see her as a Stark, a Northerner. I think that will always be a part of her. She also likes to learn. She's not a book learner, but she repeats Sylvio's words and those of her father. She practices "water dancing" diligently. Studying with the FM is another example, IMO, and not a permanent path or a loss of identity. When she "hears voices" as another poster mentioned, I think it shows how she's connected to the weirwoods, the old gods, and the North.

The story started with all the Stark children together and then quickly scattered them to the winds. I'm hoping that all the Starks will mature into their warging - tree listening - northern magic selves and be able to work together as a pack before the end of the books. They will each have matured and developed some extraordinary skills that should serve them well. Since the rest of the world seems to have forgotten Old Nan's tales, they may also have the best idea of the danger of the Others.

and VERY well stated Sunni. Ty.