The Hobbit: A Long-Expected Spoiler Movie Thread

[Werthead]

A mixed bag. Nowhere near as good as The Fellowship of the Ring or the extended version of The Two Towers, but superior to RotK (both versions) and the original cinematic version of TTT. The biggest problems are just what lots of people had identified already: the added subplots which feel extrenuous, the various tonal variations which feel jarring (the comedy washing-up musical number sits uneasily alongside later scenes of decapitations), some of the more pointless departures from the book (err, Mirkwood has been called that for a thousand years, Peter), the unnecessarily bum-numbing length and the overload of CGI even when completely unnecessary (and a lot less success in making it sit well in the enivronment than in LotR: during Radagast's chase scene he is clearly not actually there). There's also some bizarre use of locations: the very identifiable Plains of Rohan location from TTT is re-used in the Radagast chase scene and where the dwarves find the secret passage to Rivendell, which is really jarring. Also, Azog is a fucking Engineer from Prometheus. Every time I looked at him it took me right out of the movie. The exact same size (relative to the dwarves, anyway) and skin tone/texture. It was really weird. And, out of the books or not, the eagles showing up again was really anti-climactic. Someone behind me (I guess they hadn't read the books) actually said, "What, the eagles again?" Finally, continuing Jackson's fine (and admittedly irrelevant) tradition of paying zero attention to time and distances from the books, the Carrock would have to be about 13,000 feet high to allow them to see Erebor, which seems a bit ridiculous.

Against that, we have the characterisation of the thirteen dwarves which is highly successful. Richard Armitage is beyond awesome as Thorin (frankly, he's better than Viggo as Aragorn) and Balin, Bifur (brilliant use of James Nesbitt), Fili and Kili all have their moments to shine. The rest get fleeting moments of cool (Dwalin as the first dwarf to arrive in particular), though Bombur's character is pretty much just the same in the book: he is fat and that's it (though he does kill a goblin with his belly at one point). The changes to the Azog storyline actually work quite well in giving Thorin a nemesis and a more omni-present threat than in the books. The depiction of the fall of Erebor and Dale is fantastic (despite the silly contrivances they use so as not to show us Smaug fully). The scenes in Rivendell with the elves playing harps and the dwarves sitting there going, "What the fuck?", is the comic highlight of the movie. The scenes at Dol Guldur were really well-handled, if straining at violating the whole "Sauron has not yet taken physical form," assessment from the earlier movies. The Witch-King of Angmar showing up was also unexpected and cool. Sylvester McCoy was great as Radagast. The troll scene was pretty good. Gollum was great, with Serkis topping his performance from the trilogy. Jackson also gave just the right amount of weight to the 'mercy' sequence without over-egging it.

Overall: decent, but over-indulgent in places. My biggest problem is that it really does feel like one more film should finish off the whole story with Bilbo and the dwarves. Unless the third film is going to be solely about Dol Guldur and the White Council, I cannot fathom how on earth they are going to make the story work.

[Derfel Cadarn]

I liked it a lot. Didnt measure up to FOTR, but it set the bar so high nothing could. If An unexpected Journey had been the first Tolkein film, it would be interesting to see if I'd be similarily wowed.

Re the next film,

We've got Beorn, then Mirkwood, the spiders etc. Plus I think the dwarves being held by the elves will be extended as there's apparently a romance thing between Kate from Lost and the vampire from Being Human (Fili or Kili). It will apparently end with the dwarves going over the waterfall into Laketown.

[Werthead]

That would only work if the film is about an hour long. Having just passed that whole section in the book (I'm reading it to my gf's son at the moment) there is absolutely no way you can stretch that out to two hours, let alone three. Unless more than half the film is about the Necromancer and Radagast's hedgehog rescue programme, that's not going to fly.

At the moment I'm hoping the entire rest of The Hobbit is in Part II and Part III focuses mostly on the the White Council and Dol Guldur. I don't think it will be (and I can't see how that's possible either), but that at least would give the movies the best hope of having decent plots to follow.

[Clueless Northman]

The scenes at Dol Guldur were really well-handled, if straining at violating the whole "Sauron has not yet taken physical form," assessment from the earlier movies.

That's good, since this idea from LOTR was just plain wrong if not worse.

Derfel Cadarn:

You don't mean that the 2nd movie will end with the Dwarves arriving at Laketown. That would be awful and make a totally useless movie... Cutting the first one at the Egales or with them arriving at Beorn's is the logical place to cut a third of the book. But they have to arrive at Erebor - if not enter it - in the 2nd one... Seriously, the book really only picks up when they come to Laketown, then everything flows very well, but before, it's a highly episodic story without much to tie one episode with the others.

[The Anti-Targ]

If Wert gives it a passing grade then that's a pretty strong endorsement for the film.

As someone who's not a Hobbit officionado I won't notice many (if any) departures from the book. Other than the losing and finding of the ring thing, which I already know about. So if I have any criticisms, once I see it, it will be more about the movie as a movie, not the movie as an adaptation.

My friend thought the Azog CGI was terrible and looked video game quality rather than movie quality.

[cseresz.reborn]

If Wert gives it a passing grade then that's a pretty strong endorsement for the film.

My friend thought the Azog CGI was terrible and looked video game quality rather than movie quality.

Don’t listen to anyone. Make your own judgement.

[Crazydog7]

I don't have the energy to go to a midnight. Fuck 10 years ago I would have been the first in line.

[Alytha]

Dunno if the threads are going to merged at some point, but here's my review again:

In terms of structure, we start with a prologues describing the fall of the Dwarf Kingdom of Erebor (The Lonely Mountain), when the dragon came (although we don't see much of him, except for a tail or a wingtip here and there), and the following diaspora of the Dwarf people, under the leadership of Throin (?), the grand-son of King Durin. We get a bit of an explanation about why the Dwarves hate the Elves so much: they didn't help them in their times of need, neither in Erebor nor in Moria. Nice glimpse of King Thranduil of Mirkwood, riding a giant moose, too.

The main plot is framed by having old Bilbo reminisce about his life and adventures, just before the party at the beginning of Fellowship of the Ring.

Dissolve to: young Bilbo and his first encounter with Gandalf, and subsequently with 13 more or less misbeaving Dwarves. I was a bit afraid of the singing numbers, but the "that's what Bilbo Baggins hates" song is quite nice as an Irish jig, and thankfully rather short. The sing about the fall of Erebor, however, is really goose-bumps-inducing. Definetely have to get the soundtrack. (a lot of the musical cues will be familiar from the LOTR trilogy)

Apropos Dwarves: I'm not sure if I'm totally happy with their looks. While Thorin and Kili look totally human, and quite attractive, some of the others look like they're coming straight out of the Asterix comics. Maybe the Dwarf race has a lot of diversity, or they start growing their nose and ears and hair excessively as they get older? It's a bit inconsistent. I really liked Balin, he's a lovely character, and the most fatherly and supportive of them all. In a way, he is as important as Thorin in keeping them all together.

The company then sets off, and encounters the Trolls, which is quite nicely done. They find the swords in the troll cave, as in the book. In a positive change from the books, Gandalf does not claim that he needs Elrond's help to read the runes on the swords, but to decipher the map to enter the Lonely Mountain. I've always found it unrealistic that Gandalf would not have been able to read what's written on the swords...

We are also introduced to the wizard Radagast the Brown, played by the former Doctor, Sylvester McCoy as a lovely, weird old guy, who, at first sight seems a bit simple, living in his hut and caring for his animals (hedgehog scene!), but is revealed to have a good common sense and no small amount of power. He tells the company that the old forteress at Dol Guldur in the Greenwood seems to be inhabited again, and that the wood and its creatures are sick. The Dol Guldur scenes are really creepy.

In Rivendell, Gandalf inexpectedly meets the rest of the White Council, Galadriel (who has perfected the art of elegantly turning on the spot), and Saruman, who thinks that they're all exagerating. Signs and portends, eh?

After Rivendell, there's a rather bizarre scene in which stone giants throw gigantic rocks at eachother. I honestly can't remember if that was in the book...

After that, they get trapped in the goblin caves. The design is really nice and complex, and the Goblin King is great (by which I mean, utterly disgusting but oddly charismatic).

And, most importantly, Bilbo meets Gollum, finds the ring, and they have the contest of riddles, which is keeping close to the original, and thus quite long. On the other hand, I have no idea how else one could have done it.

After having escaped the goblins, the company is ambushed by the warg-riding orcs, under the leadership of Thorin's old nemesis, Azog, and they are rescued by the Eagles, which looked really nicely realistically animated this time. Although, it's not very nice of them to rescue people and then abandon them on a mountaintop in the middle of nowhere... ;)

Then, we get a nice view of Smaug appearing from out of a drift of gold coins, and opening his eye...the End.

In general, I really liked it, especially the beginning and the inclusion of all the material from the LOTR appendices, because I just love worldbuilding, and the intricately crafted background story of Middle Earth. As far as I'm concerned, they should film the Silmarillion. It does have some lengths though, where the company basically wanders from battle scene to battle scene: trolls, goblins, and again and again the ubiqitous Azog. The secind half could have used some more non-battle related plot.

Can't wait for the next one though :) 8/10

[Jaimeisnotazombie]

really good. 8.5/10

Lots of funny moments.

The songs are great.

Kili and Fili were awesome.

Kili was really cool, lot of badass moments.

Thorin is a god amongst dwarfs.

The Rock Giants scene is awesome.

Goblin fight scene was epic.

Martin Freeman is great.

The riddles scene was damn near perfect.

Who doesnt love Wargs, always room for more Wargs.

Gandalf = deus ex machina every 5 minutes. <<< this is what bothered me the most about the movie.

I hated the eagles, always did, why couldnt the eagles just fly them to Erebor. Its a stupid question, but it happens to pop into your head.

As the little bird was trying to break open the nut by smashing it into the Mountain, i wanted to start singing Bring the Ruckus, that little bit of noise woke a sleeping dragon lol. Blame that bird for all future hardships.

Still think it should only be 2 movies.

[Howdyphillip]

There is a whole lot to like about this movie. It is loosely based on a book that I read written by JRR Tolkien.

[Lupigis]

I hated the eagles, always did, why couldnt the eagles just fly them to Erebor. Its a stupid question, but it happens to pop into your head.

Why would they? It's one thing to save the lives of some guys who are being attacked close to your home (especially when the ones who are trying to kill them are you enemy), and another thing to give them a several days long ride to get wherever they are going.

[Lupigis]

That would only work if the film is about an hour long. Having just passed that whole section in the book (I'm reading it to my gf's son at the moment) there is absolutely no way you can stretch that out to two hours, let alone three. Unless more than half the film is about the Necromancer and Radagast's hedgehog rescue programme, that's not going to fly.

Jackson took 40 minutes just to get them out of Hobbiton!

He will no doubt take his time getting them to Beorn and getting them introduced and fed. After that, Beorn fighting the goblins and Azog and his orcs will be probably shown on screen, and then they have to get to Mirkwood and say goodbye to Gandalf. I hereby predict that at least 50 minutes of film will have passed before they even enter the forest!

Edit:

And that's without anything about Galadriel/Radagast/Saruman etc. Add in that and it could easily be an hour.

[Jaimeisnotazombie]

Why would they? It's one thing to save the lives of some guys who are being attacked close to your home (especially when the ones who are trying to kill them are you enemy), and another thing to give them a several days long ride to get wherever they are going.

well they seem to do whatever gandalf asks, also thorin would be king, why not have a king be indebted to you.

[Lupigis]

But Thorin already owes them one! Plus, does he actually even tell the eagles where he is going? I don't remember for sure, but he is generally very secretive in the book.

[DaveSumm]

In the book, they ask them to take them further, but they say that if they take them anywhere near Men they'll be shot at with arrows. So they compromise on the Carrock.

[waaimasjien]

My friend thought the Azog CGI was terrible and looked video game quality rather than movie quality.

There is actually a theory that Azog was originally Yazneg or Bolg (who appears in one shot in the prologue) in some of the scenes, which is why they covered him up with a CG version. Much like the troll instead of Sauron at the end of RotK.

There were all kinds of problems with casting Azog, Bolg and Yazneg, and I guess they decided one villain was enough for the first movie. Just to show you how last minute these changes have been: This figure was released last month. Note the white warg.

Anyway, I thought the movie was about 30 minutes too long. I'm an enormous fan of Howard Shore's work on the soundtrack for LotR, but was disappointed with the music in the film: too many rehashed themes, and I was really perplexed by the use of the Ringwraith theme for Thorin.

As it turns out, the soundtrack album is entirely different and features loads of new themes, and doesn't have the Nazgul theme on it at all (but features another choral theme at that specific moment in "Out of the Frying Pan". I guess that's what happens when you're still editing a few days before the premier.. Hopefully the EE will do justice to the music.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Interestingly, Azog was played by Manu Bennet (Crixus from the Spartacus tv show) and the Great Goblin by Conan Stevens (Gregor Clegane from season 1 GoT and the last season of Spartacus).

I'm pretty sure there PJ will find enough to fill the dwarves' time with from Beorn until Laketown. People might not be happy with it, though. I really think Mirkwood and the time with the elves will be extended. They've got Kate from Lost and Legolas to go get their moneys worth from. Plus the raid on the Necromancer which I suspct will be about half the film.

Armitage was excellent as Thorin., He had the right amount of haughty arrogance without making him unlikable.

[AndrewBaelish]

I gotta say, with all of the talk about the orcs and goblins going CG, it may have just been me, but with the exception of the goblin king, I didn't really notice much of a difference. Especially because there WERE men in suits.

Aside from that, I agree with pretty much everyone else here. Most of the movie was good, and the Riddles in the Dark scene was damn perfect.

Any word on if he'll be back sometime in the next two movies with all the new stuff, or if they'll keep it as is?

[waaimasjien]

Interestingly, Azog was played by Manu Bennet (Crixus from the Spartacus tv show) and the Great Goblin by Conan Stevens (Gregor Clegane from season 1 GoT and the last season of Spartacus).

No, the Great Goblin is played by Barry Humphries. Conan played Bolg (who doesn't really feature in this movie, and I guess has digitally been replaced at some points).

In this very interesting interview with Philippa Boyens, it is explained that Azog was only written in when the move to a trilogy was greenlit. That was in July. So the flashbacks and some other scenes were filmed in pickups.

[lokisnow]

Don't see it in High Frame Rate. Yes, as advertised it completely and totally eliminates eyestrain and fatigue from watching in 3D

But it's fucking weird and awful to look at, and I went in thinking it would be wonderful, since I'm not a huge fan of 24fps (which is the low end of barely adequete for human vision)

I'd give it a 7. I was hugely disappointed from a storytelling perspective. The pace seemed non-existant the whole thing moving in fits and starts. Indulgent from beginning to end and about two months of non-stop editing away from being finished. I'd lose probably forty five minutes to an hour: Radagast, the prologue, moria/azog, the white council, dol guldor, all of it can be junked, more or less, have the story of the fall of erebor flow out of the song of the lonely mountain, have thorin narrate it rather than old bilbo. Ugh.

words cannot express how awful the opening with elijah wood and prologue are. ugh. The shock when we hear Tolkien's words with the three or four opening lines of the hobbit is exhilerating, finally the awful wordsmithing narration ends and we have something written well take over.

Riddles in the Dark was worth the price of admission though, brilliant, on par with the rest of the trilogy.

Most of the fanservice fellating though was just awful, learn how to fucking edit again PJ, the worst thing to ever happen to you were the goddamn extended editions on the trilogy, ever since your movies have gotten progressively weaker as you lose the ability to lose scenes and tighten narrative flow. (I say all this as an editor working in film/television) This is so vastly more poorly paced than King Kong it is downright exasperating.

The best thing I could compare the film to is the wild shifts in tone and overall corniness/cheeseballness of Peter Jackson's early Horror films, I know Hobbit has a lighter tone but PJ seems tone deaf to all that, a shame it's so poorly done.

(There was a lot/majority I loved about the film, but right now I'm still venting/focused on the things I disliked, future viewings will temper some of that foul taste, I'm sure).