DavosSeaworthy Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 The dragons are here now. How long have their powers been working?In Sixskins POV, the prolouge in Dance, he is recalling when his parents realize he is a skinchanger and how he ends up going with some other skinchanger if memory serves me correctly, I don't have the book at hand. So I am safely assuming that he was a warg long before the dragons since he discovered this talent as a boy and appears to be a much older man in the books. Additionally, Bloodravens Greenseeing abilities have nothing to do with him being a Targ, and everything to do with his mother being a Blackwood, one of the few families south of the neck to keep the old gods, having the blood of the first men.As to the OP, Ned and his siblings may very well have had warging abilities and just might not have recognized them as warging abilities and did not develop them, or, they were dormant because they did not get a catalyst like his children. Sansa seems to lack this ability, maybe because she did not have enough time with Lady to develop them, but all the others had their direwolves for a while have all developed this ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southron_Ambitions Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 While I think that warging probably does/did "run in the family," I think it's a stretch to say that ALL Starks are skinchangers. That's kind of why being a skinchanger is a big deal, it's rare.Yeah, Varamyr mentions that none of his offspring have the gift. I think that the passing of the gift through generations of Starks is what separates them from others, though. I also think that not all Starks in recent years were aware that they are wargs. Take Ned and Sansa, for example. Without an animal to bind to, they haven't/hadn't developed the skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southron_Ambitions Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 ARE all six of them Wargs? We never heard of Robb warging, or Sansa, and with Rikkon it's too early to tell.GRRM has confirmed that ALL of the Stark kids are wargs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 ARE all six of them Wargs? We never heard of Robb warging, or Sansa, and with Rikkon it's too early to tell.Um, yes -> http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/TrinocCon_8_Durham_NC_August_3_5_20072We probably never heard of Robb warging because we were never in his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Yeah, Varamyr mentions that none of his offspring have the gift. I think that the passing of the gift through generations of Starks is what separates them from others, though. I also think that not all Starks in recent years were aware that they are wargs. Take Ned and Sansa, for example. Without an animal to bind to, they haven't/hadn't developed the skill.Sansa's a skinchanger; we know this because GRRM confirmed it. I do not think that Ned had that gift, though, latent or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavosSeaworthy Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 ARE all six of them Wargs? We never heard of Robb warging, or Sansa, and with Rikkon it's too early to tell.It sounds like magic always existed North of the Wall, far from civilization. It returning now is important. I wonder how much of the important stuff has been lost. Something had to be really, really scary to warrant the construction of a wall like that....It is widely believed that Robb was a warg as him and Greywind have that same bond as the other Starks and their wolves. Jojen is certain that Rickon is a warg, his personality and Shaggydogs personality are exactly the same, as is Bran's and Summers. We don't have POV's for these two so it is hard to be 100% sure but there is lots of evidence in the books pointing that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 ARE all six of them Wargs? We never heard of Robb warging, or Sansa, and with Rikkon it's too early to tell.It sounds like magic always existed North of the Wall, far from civilization. It returning now is important. I wonder how much of the important stuff has been lost. Something had to be really, really scary to warrant the construction of a wall like that....How do you explain the connection between the Starks personalities and feelings being tied to the wolves if the kid are not wargs? GRRM already said that the children are all wargs, so there really isn't any debate on this issue. There are probably a hundred threads asking this question with them all ending with GRRM's confirmation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southron_Ambitions Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Sansa's a skinchanger; we know this because GRRM confirmed it. I do not think that Ned had that gift, though, latent or not.I know GRRM confirmed that Sansa is, but just like with Ned, we never see anything in the books that confirms it. I just find it compelling that in the crypts, all the Kings of Winter have direwolves at their sides, and ALL the Stark kids, including Jon who is likely only a cousin, have the gift. 6 out 6 of the grandchildren of Rickard all have it. It seems to be especially strong, hereditarily, in the Stark family. I doubt very much it skips generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavosSeaworthy Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Sansa's a skinchanger; we know this because GRRM confirmed it. I do not think that Ned had that gift, though, latent or not.As my above post stated, it could be possible that he did but never had that catalyst to develop it or not. It comes across as one of those use it or lose it skills. But you could be right, the only way this would be 100% resolves is if Martin comes out and says yes or no to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of the Smiling Knight Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Onein a thousand is a skinchanger and one in a thousand skinchangers is a greenseer. The blood of teh first men makes this possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summer is Ending Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I know GRRM confirmed that Sansa is, but just like with Ned, we never see anything in the books that confirms it. I just find it compelling that in the crypts, all the Kings of Winter have direwolves at their sides, and ALL the Stark kids, including Jon who is likely only a cousin, have the gift. 6 out 6 of the grandchildren of Rickard all have it. It seems to be especially strong, hereditarily, in the Stark family. I doubt very much it skips generations.Martin specifically said he didn't want to make it into some science fiction genetic trait. All six being wargs is a miracle or anomaly if you will same as Dany surviving the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavosSeaworthy Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Martin specifically said he didn't want to make it into some science fiction genetic trait. All six being wargs is a miracle or anomaly if you will same as Dany surviving the fire.But aren't all Targs fireproof? Except you know, the ones killed by molten gold, and at Summerhall, and the one who drank wildfire, and I'm sure there are more, but you know, the rest are all fireproof, well except for Dany in DWD. Targs are fireproof!! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I know GRRM confirmed that Sansa is, but just like with Ned, we never see anything in the books that confirms it. I just find it compelling that in the crypts, all the Kings of Winter have direwolves at their sides, and ALL the Stark kids, including Jon who is likely only a cousin, have the gift. 6 out 6 of the grandchildren of Rickard all have it. It seems to be especially strong, hereditarily, in the Stark family. I doubt very much it skips generations.As my above post stated, it could be possible that he did but never had that catalyst to develop it or not. It comes across as one of those use it or lose it skills. But you could be right, the only way this would be 100% resolves is if Martin comes out and says yes or no to it.I just don't see anything suggesting that Ned (or Rickard, Brandon, Benjen or Lyanna) had the gift, latent or not. I wouldn't base it on "well the kids have it, Ned must have too." That's kind of flimsy. I do think it's possible that more Starks had it earlier on, before the Andals arrived and the blood of the First Men started getting diluted. I think that might easily explain why some of the kings have direwolf statues with them in the crypts. But again, I think it's a big leap, without basis, to assume that Ned and his siblings would have had it.And Jon is just as much a "Stark," blood-wise, as his cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Isle Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 But aren't all Targs fireproof? Except you know, the ones killed by molten gold, and at Summerhall, and the one who drank wildfire, and I'm sure there are more, but you know, the rest are all fireproof, well except for Dany in DWD. Targs are fireproof!! :P They are not fireproof. Just look at Jon - he gets burned pretty badly killing a wight. another one tried to drink wildfire and died. Dany was fireproofed only at the pyre burning of drogo and it is believed that occurred MAYBE because of Mirri's protective spell misfiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 They are not fireproof. Just look at Jon - he gets burned pretty badly killing a wight. another one tried to drink wildfire and died. Dany was fireproofed only at the pyre burning of drogo and it is believed that occurred MAYBE because of Mirri's protective spell misfiring.He was being sarcastic, dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Isle Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 He was being sarcastic, dear. so good to know that you are here to enlighten all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 so good to know that you are here to enlighten all of us.Well someone has to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Chevrolet Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 But aren't all Targs fireproof? Except you know, the ones killed by molten gold, and at Summerhall, and the one who drank wildfire, and I'm sure there are more, but you know, the rest are all fireproof, well except for Dany in DWD. Targs are fireproof!! :PDon't forget that Daenerys walked into a fire made of wood. The others all involved something far worse -- wildfire, molten gold, dragon-flames, and so on -- that obviously cause more damage than ordinary fires. Just becuase Danaerys could be "unburnt" in a normal fire doesn't mean she would be immune to more powerful forms of heat.And even if Daenerys had some natural resistance to ordinary fires, it does not mean all Targaryens share this trait. Just like some Targaryens had prophetic dreams and some did not. So the fact that Daenerys was "unburnt" from the funeral pyre but Jon's hand suffered a normal burn doesn't seem to have any significance.This gets to the original question in this thread. Some Starks were Wargs and some were not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavosSeaworthy Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 He was being sarcastic, dear.I thought the :P was a dead give-a-way to sarcasm...Of course Targs aren't fireproof, Drogo's pyre and the dragon eggs hatching is a oneoff event, as Martin has said.Apple, I agree that there is no textual evidence to Ned and siblings being wargs, but it is one of those things that's really unprovable until Martin clears it up, if ever. But you tend to be more right than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songbirdsings Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 This made me think back to descriptions of both Brandon and lyanna. They were both well known through out the north as amazing horseback riders. Iirc lyanna was referred to as half horse sometimes. Im not saying there was full on warging but maybe since they lacked the direwolves, they developed a similar bond with their pets. I know it seems on the crackpot side but it is a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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