Is Dany actually the ANTAGONIST?

[ab aeterno]

See, to me "Danystans" just sounds like people who 'ship Dany and Stannis. Which...well, to each their own, I guess?

Wasn't it like a South Part reference, or something? Every fan base has its "stans."

[Scipio Africanus]

I don't think Dany's going to necessarily be a villain. I think it's more accurate to say that she's a protagonist/ antagonist since her interests compete with other characters we are also invested in, and this will likely cause a lot of conflicted feelings about her presence in Westeros.

It's all a matter of perspective I suppose. If Jon for example ends up against Dany, then Dany would view Jon as the antagonist and vice versa (and so would Jon/Dany fans).

Something like this will most certainly happen next two novels I agree.

[butterbumps!]

Random outburst and moodswings. Burning people. Torturing people. How are those NOT traits that make you double take

It doesn't make her a villain; she's spent too much of her arc struggling with unleashing violence (i.e. having a conscience), and having abolitionist goals to really be considered truly villainous. She's a very dark shade of grey at times, but I think it's wrong to consider her a villain.

[ab aeterno]

It's all a matter of perspective I suppose. If Jon for example ends up against Dany, then Dany would view Jon as the antagonist and vice versa (and so would Jon/Dany fans).

Something like this will most certainly happen next two novels I agree.

The irony if Westeros united against Dany...

[Ribupr]

You mean like the one were the child's corpse is placed in front of her. Or the ones were she opposes to reopen the pits until she finally submits to her ill-advisers?

I really didn't like the way Dany went in ADwD but I sense a certain bias at work here.

I don't have an issue with her locking up the dragons. And I don't think I have a bias, because I actually like her character...other than that shit with Daario (can't stand that dude)

[Lady Green]

I think its interesting that we don't see many of Dany's actions outside of how she sees them, we probably feel sympathetic to the bad things because we can see her reasoning, but then again who's to say that if we knew some of the other 'bad guys' minds that we wouldn't feel the same. The exception being Cersei, if she lived here and now she'd be sectioned.

[Ribupr]

It doesn't make her a villain; she's spent too much of her arc struggling with unleashing violence (i.e. having a conscience), and having abolitionist goals to really be considered truly villainous. She's a very dark shade of grey at times, but I think it's wrong to consider her a villain.

Not a VILLIAN, but not a good person. You can say that about anything though.

I hate to use this example but...Im sure Osama Bin Laden thought he was doing the right thing. It is all a matter of perspective. So what I am saying is that the general consensus (by the readers) is that she will be on the antagonist side.

[The last Greenseer]

Re Quentyn: he arrived sans ships, sans army sans anything on the eve of her marriage and demanded that she honour an agreement that did not mention her at all. She welcomed him, treated him as an honoured guest and promised him that her marriage need not end his hopes and reminded him that the dragon has three heads. She did everything she could short of marrying him so could we please stop saying that she dumped poor Quent for Daario?

Agree on this 100%. Just because the guy came from half way across the world, bearing a parchment that talks of a "marriage contract", is Dany supposed to leave everything and go with him to Dorne? It would have been a totally different case if he had a navy at his back or say 1000 spears just to show off Dorne's strength! But How in seven hells is she supposed to trust this guy on his word?

[Scipio Africanus]

The irony if Westeros united against Dany...

That won't happen but yes that would be ironic indeed. Dany discovering that Westeros is full of ursurper dogs...she wouldn't be able to take the hint.

[Lady Green]

Not a VILLIAN, but not a good person. You can say that about anything though.

I hate to use this example but...Im sure Osama Bin Laden thought he was doing the right thing. It is all a matter of perspective. So what I am saying is that the general consensus (by the readers) is that she will be on the antagonist side.

I think the thing that needs to be considered is whether Dany can become a villian, it wouldn't surprise me if she uses Drogon to burn people or towns or something. With regards to Westeros she believes that it is her right to rule, and when people think that they have the right to something then they don't really think if something is right or wrong to get it.

[Samsaptakas]

I don't know about this... Ramsay, Cercei, Joff, Hoat, Lorch, the Mountain, Roose, Walder Frey, Rattleshirt,... Those are pretty easy to place on the dark side. On the other hand there's Frodo, I mean Jon and Sam and all their 'lil friends and Ned Stark. And then there are some ambiguous figures as well. But I think in most cases it is quite obvious were to put the characters.

Cersei, Ned, Sam and Jon have both fans and non-fans. Dany, Stannis, Renly, Arya, Jaime, Theon all have their fans and non-fans as well.

[Philip Baratheon]

Besides the Others, it doesn't seem to be a series where there is a clearly cut antagonist/protagonist dichotomy. That's not just for moral reasons (more greys than black/whites, if that makes sense) but because the series is structured by PoVs, some of whom we might consider villainous. Daenerys will be an antagonist to many characters, just as Cersei is an antagonist to many, many PoV characters, but she remains one of the series' protagonists. Daenerys will not be an antagonist to everyone, which is what will prevent her from becoming one of the main bad guys, I guess, but that's largely because we get her side of the story. We see her, from her own perspective, making her way through the world. If we didn't, and stuck more closely to, say, Jon, she might be such a figure when she arrives looking for vengeance on the Usurper's dogs.

Edit: to try and put it another way - it's like the Others are the only thing the characters we follow (through PoVs as in Jon's case, or proximity to PoVs as in Stannis, Robb, King Robert etc) would all oppose/agree on. Now there are some I guess people who aren't PoVs and are completely beyond the pale thus clear antagonists but they're usually only people like Ramsay Bolton. Evil people, certainly, but insignificant ultimately.

[The last Greenseer]

@OP, with GRRM it is hard to say if he intends to paint this character as Antagonistic! Like he has said in several of his interviews, characters in ASoIaF are grey!

Burning of MMD was a punishment she saw befit to her betrayal. The deaths of slavers was justice for the murders they inflicted on young slave children.. If Ned Stark had announced that same sentence for the slavers, I don't think anyone on the forum would have questioned it. We as readers don't trust her judgement because we still see her as a naive child who just wants to take what is hers by fire and blood! But that does not mean that Dany is slowly turning into an evil entity. At her core, I believe she is still "one of the good guys"!

[Grip]

Heh imagine your average man or woman living in the Stormlands when Dany arrives with the Iron Fleet flying the dragon banner aswell as the Greyjoy kraken, having three dragons circling above and leading an army of savages many of whom doesnt even speak my language. I would be worried to say the least. It would probably take some time before I put her on the side of the good guys..

I dont consider her too be "bad/evil" though, but certainly an antagonist to many in Westeros..

[Dreadwolf]

4.) As the story progresses, you can see her father in her more and more. I can't give examples right now, but there were more than a few passage on the re-read where I thought that.

Would you elaborate please?

You migtht be onto something here but I would suggest you be more precised.

If there is a serious flaw in your statement as quoted however I think it is that Aerys was a sadistic psycho - probably a side effect after he had been kidnapped. Something which is not true for Danny. At least till the last moment we saw her. Her jugment for MMD was cruel as per our standards. Yes may be. Then again Rob Stark judged much more cruelly the poor Karstark man who was only 'looking' - the execution of the captured Lannisters in Riberrun. And Rob Srark was many things but not the sadistic Psycho. Just a ruler and a king. Or a pretender which is mostly the same...

There could be a conflict between Danny and the Kingslayer. Which is kind of protagonist - antagonist, maybe. Although I am most inclined to believe that if ever Jaime meets Daenerys - it will be quite interestiong chapter and plot development. Rather than antagonistic exchange/ skirmish (like we had previously between Eddard and Jaime; Ned and Cersei and may be even Catelyn and Jaime...)

[blackwing]

I don't have an issue with her locking up the dragons. And I don't think I have a bias, because I actually like her character...other than that shit with Daario (can't stand that dude)

I don't like Daario either. The point is, that those things (like chaining the dragons) show off character traits uncommon in antagonists and bad persons.

Cersei, Ned, Sam and Jon have both fans and non-fans. Dany, Stannis, Renly, Arya, Jaime, Theon all have their fans and non-fans as well.

Being a fan or non-fan of a character doesn't say anything about them being faces or heels. I liked Tywin a lot as a villain, still by no means I'd say he was a good guy.

[Ribupr]

Would you elaborate please?

You migtht be onto something here but I would suggest you be more precised.

If there is a serious flaw in your statement as quoted however I think it is that Aerys was a sadistic psycho - probably a side effect after he had been kidnapped. Something which is not true for Danny. At least till the last moment we saw her. Her jugment for MMD was cruel as per our standards. Yes may be. Then again Rob Stark judged much more cruelly the poor Karstark man who was only 'looking' - the execution of the captured Lannisters in Riberrun. And Rob Srark was many things but not the sadistic Psycho. Just a ruler and a king. Or a pretender which is mostly the same...

There could be a conflict between Danny and the Kingslayer. Which is kind of protagonist - antagonist, maybe. Although I am most inclined to believe that if ever Jaime meets Daenerys - it will be quite interestiong chapter and plot development. Rather than antagonistic exchange/ skirmish (like we had previously between Eddard and Jaime; Ned and Cersei and may be even Catelyn and Jaime...)

Yeah I will definitely give examples. I just don't have the books in front of me at the moment.

I wasn't saying she is JUST like Aerys. But I do think she has more of the Targ madness than most think (I will give ex. at some point), and that something COULD push her over the edge.

[RoamingRonin]

Daenerys is already viewed as an antagonist to the majority of people in the story. She's viewed as a threat to damn near the entire world. She's about as antagonistic as she's going to get unless she starts burning people alive with her dragon(s) for no reason.

[SeanF]

It's a question of one's perspective. Dany is bound to be an antagonist in the eyes of many of the POV characters. If she regains the Iron Throne, then Jaime, Cersei, the Starks, the Tullys, can all expect no mercy at her hands.

[Ribupr]

It's a question of one's perspective. Dany is bound to be an antagonist in the eyes of many of the POV characters. If she regains the Iron Throne, then Jaime, Cersei, the Starks, the Tullys, can all expect no mercy at her hands.

QUESTION

If Dany wasn't a POV, what would you see her as?