Ran

References and Homages

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Re: 'direwolf', 'destrier' and especially 'citadel'.

All three are very common and generic words in fantasy fiction and not ones anyone who'd read much fantasy (or history for that matter) would be unfamiliar with or need to 'look up'. And GRRM has read a lot of both. ;) I'm quite certain he was familiar with the words before reading Wolfe.

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Re: 'direwolf', 'destrier' and especially 'citadel'.

All three are very common and generic words in fantasy fiction and not ones anyone who'd read much fantasy (or history for that matter) would be unfamiliar with or need to 'look up'. And GRRM has read a lot of both. ;) I'm quite certain he was familiar with the words before reading Wolfe.

Edited by keele864

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Re: 'direwolf', 'destrier' and especially 'citadel'.

All three are very common and generic words in fantasy fiction and not ones anyone who'd read much fantasy (or history for that matter) would be unfamiliar with or need to 'look up'. And GRRM has read a lot of both. ;) I'm quite certain he was familiar with the words before reading Wolfe.

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There's also a Castle Rock in New Mexico...not a real castle, a landmark that looks like a castle in a mountain, I think. I remember driving by it when I lived there ten years ago. The Scotland reference may be more realistic, but Martin does live in Santa Fe.

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FWIW, Dorcas is also a real (if uncommon) name - I'd personally want to see more evidence tying GRRM's Dorcas to a particular other Dorcas.

FWIW, Dorcas is also a real (if uncommon) name - I'd personally want to see more evidence tying GRRM's Dorcas to a particular other Dorcas.

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In British fiction written in the first third of the 20th century, maidservants often seen to be called Dorcas (or Gladys). My guess is that this is where GRRM got the name from, as he has read widely enough that he must have read some of these books. I believe it is one of those biblical names that were common in the 19th century.

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Castle Rock is north of the Springs and south of Denver.

Edited by RWHamel

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Someone alluded our Kingslayer to Luke Skywalker, which is quite fitting.

Another possible inspiration for his story is Tyr, the norse god of war. Needless to say he is a great swordsman. But where it really gets interesting is the legend of the leashing of the Fenris wolf.

For those unfamiliar with norse mythology, the Fenris wolf is one of Loki's (the trickster god) children, a huge wolf - prophetised to devour the moon at Ragnarok - the end of the world.

This beast of a wolf wouldn't let the gods put this leash on him, so they had to trick him. They taunted the wolf and finally he agreed to be leashed if one of the gods put his right hand into the wolf's mouth - to prevent any treachery.

Needless to say, it was the brave Tyr that stepped forward - and subsequently lost his hand.

Now, as for Golden Boy Lannister - the reason that Cat sets him free is to free the wolf girls - which might be counterintuitive. But when he strays from the path that Cat set him upon - that is, when he tries to break free from Brienne. Well, that's when he looses his hand. For his treachery against the wolf.

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I dont recall if this theory has been thrown up around here, but the Hound is clearly a homage to CuChullain of Irish legend. Cuchullain, translated, means the Hound of Chullain, and in several places he is referred to solely as the Hound. And, when he enters his Warp Spasm, CuChullains face undergoes a transformation into a hideous and terrifying form.

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And, what I came upon today...

"The Stallion who mounts the world" is the Khal of Khals, which means the chief of chiefs. A legend of some warrior people to the east of the proper world.

Anyone reminded of the Car'a'carn?

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CB - you're forgetting the most important part. It's only after Setanta kills Culann's hound and takes its place as watchdog that he earns the name Cuchulainn. Okay, Sandor didn't kill Lady directly, or drive Nymeria away, but I'd argue that his actions were a large part of why the wolves and girls were separated. He's had his turn guarding each of Sansa and Arya, too, though admittedly it was after he got the nickname.

OTOH, Setanta was known for being exceptionally handsome, which is a charge nobody can lay at Sandor's door. ;)

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CB - you're forgetting the most important part. It's only after Setanta kills Culann's hound and takes its place as watchdog that he earns the name Cuchulainn. Okay, Sandor didn't kill Lady directly, or drive Nymeria away, but I'd argue that his actions were a large part of why the wolves and girls were separated. He's had his turn guarding each of Sansa and Arya, too, though admittedly it was after he got the nickname.

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Yeah, that first part was meant to be in support of your notion, hence the later 'otoh'. The second... well, nobody's perfect. Just imagine if Setanta'd had an older brother Gearóid - he might not have been so handsome after all! :P

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A couple of things spring to my mind-

One has been mentioned earlier in this thread, kind of, inreference to The Red Wedding, but in the flaying of their enemies, it seems to me that the Boltons equivalents to the Tepes dynasty in Wallachia, led of course by the infamous Vlad the Impaler (he even had a son who was kind of Ramsay-ish). The fact that the Boltons contested the title of King in the North with the Starks in earlier days also echoes the fact that Vlad fought several wars with other Wallachian nobles for the throne.

The second thing I thought of was the bit when Jaime is convincing Loras about the worth of the knights in the White Book, and one of them was called 'The Kingmaker'- Robert Neville, Earl of Warwick, The Kingmaker, was a key figure in the Wars of the Roses, one of Martin's acknolwedged inspirations for the series.

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I can' t remember if this was mentioned before, but GRRM uses the term "merling" to describe aquatic creatures of some sort (the Spears of the Merling King in one of Davos' chapters, and a mention of them being seen near Eastwatch in one of Jon's chapters).

In Jack Vance's "Trullion: Alastor 2262", the merlings are the denizens of The Fens around Welgen - subaquatic creatures that grab humans and eat them.

Aratan

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Costayne of Three Towers: A reference to a Thomas B. Costain, a favorite historical fiction writer of GRRM's.

The lord is named Tommen Costain

The Heraldry on this one is great. Thomas costain's two most loved books are the Black Rose an The Silver Chalice and the houses arms are a Black rose quartered with a silver chalice.

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Is Thoros of Myr as Turjan of Miir from Jack Vance's Dying Earth too big a stretch?

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Hi, this might fall into the "too bloody obvious" category, but I couldn't see it mentioned above anywhere:

"Varys the Spider" - as in the Who song, "Boris the Spider"? Plus the "V" sound is in several languages represented by the letter "B"... :cool:

I doubt there's any connection other than the name, but if there is, we can expect to see Varys squashed horribly. :)

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I didn't see this one, sorry if I missed it.

In the Illiad, Achilles and Patroclus are very close. It isn't too hard to read their relationship as sexual in nature. Some key incidents in the story are Patroclus wearing Achilles armor to strike fear in the enemy hosts, Patroclus's death, and Achilles violent response to his death (he kills Troy's champion, Hector).

In ASoFaI, Loras and Renly are probably lovers. Loras wears Renly's armor at the Battle of Blackwater to strike fear in Stannis's army. Loras's anger (dare I say wrath?) at Renly's death is significant in the story as well - he kills several people when he finds out, and later his anger is important to bringing the Tyrells into the Lannister fold.

Basically, in both stories we have gay lovers (probably) sharing tents on the battlefield. In each there is an incident where the less "important" one wears the other's armor to affect the course of a battle. One of the pair dies, and the other's emotional response to the loss has significant consequences.

Seems like there is at least some influence from/reference to the Illiad there.

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