Ran

References and Homages

1,738 posts in this topic

On 12/31/2015 at 4:16 AM, FuzzyJAM said:

Abel is pretty obviously a reference to Bael in-universe, but I think it's also an allusion to the Biblical Abel.  Abel is most famous for being the first brother.  He quarrels with his brother and is killed by him.  Mance too quarrels with his brothers and is "killed" by them (actually Rattleshirt, but hey).  And in the story of his death, burnt offerings to God are key.  There's a question about whether "God's favour" (which Abel has, his brother does not) might come into play with the NW later on, or perhaps R'hllor glamouring him might fit in.  At any rate, it's not at all one for one, but there seems to be enough mixed up similarities for it to be something of an allusion.

But maybe just seeing patterns where there aren't any.  Sad to say, this was the only potential allusion I remembered from my re-read that has yet to be mentioned in the thread.  

I don't really buy that one. The name itself is a dead ringer for biblical character but nobody can be his Cain, especially not Rattleshirt. He's no shepherd either unless a shepherd of men and while he has an antagonism with kneeling farmers, no one can personify enough.

If anything, this choice of alias for Winterfell mission is Mance's way of pointing a huge fat finger at:

  1. Bael the Bard obviously
  2. Barristan's short speech about Rhaegar being, first and foremost, able.

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I got a gold dragon says this was influenced by Harris’s The Silence of the Lambs...

Quote

To toughen her, Ser Goodwin used to send her to her father's butcher to slaughter lambs and suckling pigs. The piglets squealed and the lambs screamed like frightened children. By the time the butchering was done Brienne had been blind with tears, her clothes so bloody that she had given them to her maid to burn.

Brienne IV, Feast 20

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The Mountains of the Moon was a movie starring Ian Glen (Jorah Mormont) that came out in 1990: http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0100196/ 

That would have left it fresh in the mind of GRRM as he was worldbuilding in 92/93.
 
 

This may be an inspiration for the mountainous Gates of the Moon.

Edited by Daendrew

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21 minutes ago, Daendrew said:
The Mountains of the Moon was a movie starring Ian Glen (Jorah Mormont) that came out in 1990: http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0100196/ 

That would have left it fresh in the mind of GRRM as he was worldbuilding in 92/93.
 
 

This may be an inspiration for the mountainous Gates of the Moon.

The second link you posted suggests that there is no Mountains of the Moon. Rather is suggests that a man in ancient times had claimed to have discovered the source of the Nile in a range of mountains, which the local inhabitants called the Mountains of the Moon for their snow caps. 

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8 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The second link you posted suggests that there is no Mountains of the Moon. Rather is suggests that a man in ancient times had claimed to have discovered the source of the Nile in a range of mountains, which the local inhabitants called the Mountains of the Moon for their snow caps. 

It exists as a reference. 

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52 minutes ago, Daendrew said:

It exists as a reference. 

I appreciated the link. I didn’t know the history, and I can see better why the George named the mountains of the Vale the Mountains of the Moon. 

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According to a SSM, In 2008 GRRM said he wanted to write about Baldwin VI "the Leper" King of Jerusalem:

Quote

GRRM: Would like to write about leper king of Jerusalem - has a lot of empathy for his problems and it’s a fascinating exercise to try to get into his mind. Creation of a character who is not like yourself is very difficult. You have to be able to project yourself into these different kinds of people.

Source: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/2724 

 
 
 

I think JonCon pays homage to Baldwin VI "the Leper" that GRRM wanted to write about so much.

Edited by Daendrew

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On 15-11-2016 at 8:14 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

I got a gold dragon says this was influenced by Harris’s The Silence of the Lambs...

Brienne IV, Feast 20

Nice one, especially when thinking how she comes face to face with a cannibal, who likes to chew people alive

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On 12/30/2016 at 3:46 PM, sweetsunray said:

Nice one, especially when thinking how she comes face to face with a cannibal, who likes to chew people alive

I didn't even consider that. Cool. 

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"Lyra and Jory are with our mother."

Jory is short for Jorelle. Jor-El and Lara were Superman's parents. 

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Alboin, king of the Lombards, second wife was a spoil of war named Rosamund. He humiliated her by forcing her to drink wine out of her father's skull. She enlisted her husband's master at arms and another man to assassinate him. Which she did. 

Combination of The Boy too Bold by half, Lo Bu and the Dothraki woman who murdered her non-Dothraki husband. 

Edited by Pain killer Jane

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The Night's Queen 

Moll Dyer, a woman in 1695 that was accused of witchcraft because she was surviving the "Longest Winter We Have Known" in Leonardtown, Maryland. She was chased out of her home in the woods. Her body was later found frozen to a rock. According to locals, she left her hand prints on the rock. 

Check out American Supernatural - Wicked Witch of Winter 

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This one is obvious but;  Brienne defeated Harry Sawyer and Robin Potter for participating in a bet for her maidenhead. Robin even received a scar on his forehead.

Cersei Lannister's prophecy "younger and more beautiful queen" is reference to another "younger and more beautiful princess" Snow White.

 

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Gilbert of the Vines, the founder of House Redwyne is a reference to the 1993 movie What's Eating Gilbert Grape.

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Place reference - I know some people said that the Quiet Isle reminds them of Mont St Michel in France but the Holy Island or Lindisfarne off northeast England seems a bit more like the Quiet Isle.

'It is accessible, most times, at low tide by crossing sand and mud flats which are covered with water at high tides. These sand and mud flats carry an ancient pilgrims' path, and in more recent times, a modern causeway.'

(From the wikipedia entry)

 

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On 3/25/2017 at 5:50 AM, Castellan said:

Place reference - I know some people said that the Quiet Isle reminds them of Mont St Michel in France but the Holy Island or Lindisfarne off northeast England seems a bit more like the Quiet Isle.

'It is accessible, most times, at low tide by crossing sand and mud flats which are covered with water at high tides. These sand and mud flats carry an ancient pilgrims' path, and in more recent times, a modern causeway.'

(From the wikipedia entry)

 

If it's Lindisfarne, does that suggest that Euron will raid it? 

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3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

If it's Lindisfarne, does that suggest that Euron will raid it? 

I hope not. Euron's headed off for bigger game right now, anyway.

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