Ran

References and Homages

1,771 posts in this topic

how did i not see the Dune similarities before...once pointed out, so obvious!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I think this is a very interesting topic!
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but I think there are many similarities between Ramsay's macabre huntings in the woods and the novel of “Nastagio degli Onesti”, contained in Giovanni Boccaccio's Decameron.
George Martin is a great admirer of Italian literature, both Medieval and Renaissance (in an interview he mentioned Machiavelli's Prince as a main source of inspiration for his A Song of Ice and Fire), and Boccaccio is one of the greatest medieval writers along with Dante and Petrarca.

In A Song of Ice and Fire Ramsay is renowned for his savage cruelty, in particular he's known for chasing girls in the woods with his dogs, killing them, raping them and feeding their bodies to his dogs. In Boccaccio's novel Nastagio is walking through a pine forest when he sees a girl running naked in tears, being chased by two dogs trying to bite her and a knight with a black sword who kills her and gives her heart to the dogs.
This novel was renowned during Middle Ages and Renaissance: the famous Italian painter Sandro Botticelli was commissioned by Lorenzo the Magnificent to paint it on the occasion of Giannozzo Pucci's wedding to Lucrezia Bini (1483).

To see the paintings click the links below.

Nastagio degli Onesti, primo episodio

Nastagio degli Onesti, secondo episodio

What do you think about it? 

Edited by *Leah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On Invalid Date at 0:12 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:

This probably came up a long time ago, but does fAegon acting as the Westerosi Perkin Warbeck count as homage?

Right before I started watching GoT and reading ASOIAF, I read Philippa Gregory's "The White Princes." Now, I realize that Gregory doesn't exactly have the best reputation when it comes to historical accuracy, but what I found interesting is how similar her portrayal of Elizabeth of York was to Sansa in ACOK. Both of them "played dumb" in order to avoid saying the wrong thing and ending up on the chopping block. I don't support the theory that the War of the Roses can predict how ASOIAF will end, but I definitely see the parallels between Sansa and Elizabeth of York, more so than between her and Queen Elizabeth I. 

I agree Perkin Warbeck seems to be the best inspiration for Aegon (fake or not; I think he is fake).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm...

Quote

Three conflicting accounts exist as to the manner of death of Prince Daeron Targaryen. The best known claims that the prince stumbled from his pavilion with his night clothes afire, only to be cut down by the Myrish sellsword Black Trombo, who smashed his face in with a swing of his spiked morningstar. This version was the one preferred by Black Trombo, who told it far and wide.

The Princess and the Queen

Trombo did slay the dragon...

Quote

James Dalton Trumbo (December 9, 1905 – September 10, 1976) was an American screenwriter and novelist, who scripted films including Roman Holiday, Exodus, Spartacus, and Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo. One of the Hollywood Ten, he refused to testify before the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC) in 1947 during the committee's investigation of Communist influences in the motion picture industry. He was subsequently blacklisted by that industry. He continued working clandestinely, producing work under other authors' names. His uncredited work won two Academy Awards; the one for Roman Holiday (1953) was given to a front writer, and the one for The Brave One (1956) was awarded to a pseudonym. The public crediting of him as the writer of both Exodus and Spartacus in 1960 marked the end of the Hollywood Blacklist. His earlier achievements were eventually credited to him by the Writers Guild, 60 years after the fact.

Dalton Trumbo, Wikipedia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Hmm...

The Princess and the Queen

Trombo did slay the dragon...

Dalton Trumbo, Wikipedia

Nice. Super good find. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/7/2017 at 7:15 PM, *Leah said:

in an interview he mentioned Machiavelli's Prince as a main source of inspiration for his A Song of Ice and Fire

Confirms my suspicion. I always found Varys's speech to Kevan about fAegon and him going on about the "people" as something that fits Machiavelli's ideas about a Prince uniting regions into one giant empire. Macchiavelli advocated a political system where an absolute monarch had the power without having to cow-tow to feudal noble lords. The Medicis in France and Henry VIII in England pretty much used Machiavelli's ideas to gain total power and make it one country and it was the beginning of the end of feudalism. They weren't dependent of old noble houses anymore, but could levy armies of people directly. The war that Varys helps to bring about all over Westeros certainly aims to do that. It is also Tywin's tactc.

Aegon "Egg" was frustrated over the same issue. He wanted totalitarian power for himself so he could rule for the people, but the great houses and feudal lords had too much power. And there are literary links between Varys and Egg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/26/2017 at 11:09 PM, sweetsunray said:

Confirms my suspicion. I always found Varys's speech to Kevan about fAegon and him going on about the "people" as something that fits Machiavelli's ideas about a Prince uniting regions into one giant empire. Macchiavelli advocated a political system where an absolute monarch had the power without having to cow-tow to feudal noble lords. The Medicis in France and Henry VIII in England pretty much used Machiavelli's ideas to gain total power and make it one country and it was the beginning of the end of feudalism. They weren't dependent of old noble houses anymore, but could levy armies of people directly. The war that Varys helps to bring about all over Westeros certainly aims to do that. It is also Tywin's tactc.

Aegon "Egg" was frustrated over the same issue. He wanted totalitarian power for himself so he could rule for the people, but the great houses and feudal lords had too much power. And there are literary links between Varys and Egg.

I don't think Tywin had any interest in absolutism. He revoked the remainder of Egg's laws and restored some noble powers. As Hand for Joffrey and Tommen he let the Tyrells and Reach vassals take a lot of war spoils and gave them cushy political positions. Cersei is an absolutist because she has no interest in council and debate and wants to keep all the power and rewards for the crown. She even wants to build a new palace outside the city like Louis XIV.

 

Egg was probably an absolutist but not a totalitarian. Totalitarian rule would be impossible for a medieval bureaucracy and if Egg didn't even force his kids to marry it's unlikely he would want to direct total control over society and the economy like Stalin or other totalitarian dictators.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, SerBronnsMullet said:

I don't think Tywin had any interest in absolutism. He revoked the remainder of Egg's laws and restored some noble powers. As Hand for Joffrey and Tommen he let the Tyrells and Reach vassals take a lot of war spoils and gave them cushy political positions. Cersei is an absolutist because she has no interest in council and debate and wants to keep all the power and rewards for the crown. She even wants to build a new palace outside the city like Louis XIV.

 

Egg was probably an absolutist but not a totalitarian. Totalitarian rule would be impossible for a medieval bureaucracy and if Egg didn't even force his kids to marry it's unlikely he would want to direct total control over society and the economy like Stalin or other totalitarian dictators.

 

 

Henry VIII gave his in-laws good positions in his close council. He was still an absolutist.

Tywin repealed Egg's laws when he was a lord. But when his grandson becomes king, he sure went out of his way to destroy houses, giving rewards to those who helped him, but nothing anywhere near the same feudal power: Freys kill off Starks at the RW, and are rewarded with Riverrun, but without the LP-ship of the Riverlands. No that is handed to Petyr Baelish who gets Harrenhal, a castle he cannot himself occupy, for he does not have the people and the surronding lands and village went up in smoke so he cannot get money from the related lands of HH at the moment. Boltons are given wardenship of the North, but a fake Arya (and they know she's fake), while Tyrion's married to the elder sister Sansa. Storm's End will be Tommen's to distribute to his sons, etc. Lancel gets Darry, a lower house in the Riverlands, but at a crucial position near the Crossroads. The fact that he gives his in-laws a set at the small council is not a sign that he isn't an absolutist. He simply didn't live long enough after arriving at KL and having victory over Stannis to start changing laws.

Agreed on Egg: I used the wrong term. He's an absolutist, not a totalitarian. If Egg had managed to actually gain absolutist power and break down feudal power, a religious-fanatical great--great-grandson (religiously fanatical like Baelor I) could have gone totalitarian hypothetically, if he had a standing army and dragons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎7‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 9:05 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

The Princess and the Queen

Trombo did slay the dragon...

Nice catch.   GRRM gives other nods to Trumbo as well - I mean, watch "Roman Holiday" and get back to me - throughout the novels, and I've long believed that he specifically references Trumbo's lone fictional published work, Johnny Got His Gun.  I mentioned a couple in this post , as well as a few others on here from time to time.

He's quoted Trumbo on NaB several times as well.   I would love to ask him about this influence at a con.  :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Elizabeth Boyer's 1980 Norse-inspired fantasy novel 'The Sword and the Satchel', the map for which bears a passing resemblance to the style of the Westeros maps, there are places called Neck (an area where the landmass narrows, near a swamp), Reekness, and Trident.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aegon's landing site and the development of King's Landing among the three hills was surely inspired by the Seven Hills of Rome (but I see no parallels between Aegon the Conqueror and Romulus). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now