Confessions....say what?! v.11

[DogLover]

And Cersei-pologist should be forced to walk naked through the streets, (Once again kidding)

I AM COMING TO GET YOU! (kidding, kind of.)

(Again, late to the game and just chiming in.) Confession: It makes me see red when it's assumed I'm a Cersei apologist because I don't think she deserved the WoS. The WoS had nothing to do with Cersei's crimes. It was a punishment and statement against all women--"You dirty, dirty, dirty little whores. You better know your place."

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

As I said, he has no reason to trust ned. None at all.

Yeah I mean it's not like Ned was incredibly devoted to Jon Arryn, a man who had been killed as he worked out what was going on. Or that Ned was incredibly devoted to Robert Baratheon, a man for whom Ned had fought two wars. If Ned found out about things which would or had harmed either of those men he would have acted. Above all else, Ned had a reputation for honesty, fairness and justice. Any idea that he would not seek to right the wrong of the Lannister incest is farcical.

Also how do we not know stannis was just bidding his time and was going to go to kl and tell ned, but then everything whent downhill?

Because he was impounding ships on Dragonstone and spending his time nailing Melisandre.

Robb declared himself a king when by all rights, he should have sworn to joff or stannis

Swear to the child who killed his father or the man who left him to die? Hmmm. What a choice.

He was a traitor. Stannis never declared war on robb, if anything robb declared war on stannis when he made himself a king. Also renly was a usurpur that got what was coming to him, if robb went into an alliance with renly then robb got what was coming to him as renly comes after stannis and everyone knows it. stannis did not undermine robbs cause ever, in fact his attack on kl would have helped robb if not for unforseeable events.

Robb was willing to assist anyone who would grant the North independence. His father died trying to protect the realm and to protect Stannis' claim. What on earth did Robb owe Stannis? He had both abandoned his father and left his sisters to the Lannisters. Also, Stannis did essentially declare war on Robb (whilst happily letting him fight Tywin).

Renly may have been a usurper, but I was still rooting for Robb. Stannis killed any hope of that alliance and shot himself in the foot with the fruits of his endeavour.

Stannis' attack on KL undermined Robb because Stannis failed. Robb was then left to fight the Tyrells, Lannisters and Martells essentially alone.

[Kittykatknits]

I AM COMING TO GET YOU! (kidding, kind of.)

(Again, late to the game and just chiming in.) Confession: It makes me see red when it's assumed I'm a Cersei apologist because I don't think she deserved the WoS. The WoS had nothing to do with Cersei's crimes. It was a punishment and statement against all women--"You dirty, dirty, dirty little whores. You better know your place."

This. This. So much This. The trial by combat is for her actual crimes. The WoS was for having sex as a widow.

[JonisnoGarySnow]

I AM COMING TO GET YOU! (kidding, kind of.)

(Again, late to the game and just chiming in.) Confession: It makes me see red when it's assumed I'm a Cersei apologist because I don't think she deserved the WoS. The WoS had nothing to do with Cersei's crimes. It was a punishment and statement against all women--"You dirty, dirty, dirty little whores. You better know your place."

:agree: 100%. I love Cersei, but I don't apologize for her, she's done tons of shitty things (the torture of the Blue Bard I can barely think about because it's so horrifying to me, poor guy). But the WoS wasn't about her real shitty things, it was because she fucked someone and had to be brought down as a female.

Brings me to another confession: I think the torture of the Blue Bard haunts me more than a lot of other horrible things in the book. Seriously, poor guy just wanted to sing for the little queen and her cousins, and his eyes got put out and his nipple cut off and his boots filled with blood, and even when they whipped him at the Sept he didn't go back on what they forced him to say. It's just horrifying.

[The Wolves]

I think Stannis is as responsible for the dissolution and destruction of the Starks as almost anybody (though I have an annoying soft spot for the guy).

I never thought of it that way. I can see why you have blamed him now I have added another reason to loath his ass. I forever HATE Stannis because of this new revelation. Stannis has contributed to the destruction of myStarks, dammit!!! I want Vengeance

[Kittykatknits]

:agree: 100%. I love Cersei, but I don't apologize for her, she's done tons of shitty things (the torture of the Blue Bard I can barely think about because it's so horrifying to me, poor guy). But the WoS wasn't about her real shitty things, it was because she fucked someone and had to be brought down as a female.

Brings me to another confession: I think the torture of the Blue Bard haunts me more than a lot of other horrible things in the book. Seriously, poor guy just wanted to sing for the little queen and her cousins, and his eyes got put out and his nipple cut off and his boots filled with blood, and even when they whipped him at the Sept he didn't go back on what they forced him to say. It's just horrifying.

Yep, she's not a good person at all. She's guilty of multiple crimes including treason, murder, torture, conspiracy to commit murder and so on. But she should have a trial, be found guilty, and executed.

I'm personally against capital punishment but execution is the norm in ASOIAF so I can deal with that.

[Tookie Clothespin]

I secretly found Cersei and Jaime getting it on to be kinda hot, and I root for them still.

i do too. oh the shame... :blushing: but i always picture them as the show versions in my head, and gawd lena heady and nikolaj coster-waldau are HOT. them doing it in the sept, like was it beside? near? their dead son... THAT was weirdly awkward. :blink:

[JonisnoGarySnow]

i do too. oh the shame... :blushing: but i always picture them as the show versions in my head, and gawd lena heady and nikolaj coster-waldau are HOT. them doing it in the sept, like was it beside? near? their dead son... THAT was weirdly awkward. :blink:

I blame my fascination with twincest on the Harry Potter fandom when I was young...

[RedBean]

I confess that despite Arianne's mistakes, I find her a more interesting character than Doran and all the Sand Snakes put together. I wouldn't mind at all if Doran dies and she becomes ruler of Dorne in her own right.

I confess that I like LF more than Varys. Not because he's a "good" character, but because I like a villain who knows he's a villain than someone who feeds people bullshit about "working for the realm". Varys lost me the moment he lectured Ned Stark on honor. Don't get me wrong, I know Ned has faults, and I do put part of the blame of what happened at KL on his shoulders, but I don't want someone like Varys giving Ned a lecture (as though it's somehow honourable of himself to start a war just to plant his own pawn on the Iron Throne).

I confess that when I first got introduced to the books years ago by my sister, I wasn't in the mood to get really into a series of 4 doorstoppers (which wasn't even completed) so I only read some POV chapters that really interested me. Dany was the first of these, which is why I will always have a sweet spot for her in my heart even if her story hasn't been going the way I imagined at all. Tyrion and Sansa were two others, and though Tyrion has fallen out of favor with me (due to events that occurred in ADWD), Sansa is still a favourite and I must have the most shallow reason ever for starting to like Sansa's character - I liked the sound of her name. It's also interesting to me that even though the story is so interwoven with all the characters, I was still able to pick out the prominent feelings associated with these characters' chapters. And before anyone mauls me for not reading the series thoroughly, I did in fact get reintroduced to the series a year ago, and have now read all five books (even POVs that don't interest me at all).

[sifth]

I confess that despite Arianne's mistakes, I find her a more interesting character than Doran and all the Sand Snakes put together. I wouldn't mind at all if Doran dies and she becomes ruler of Dorne in her own right.

I confess that I like LF more than Varys. Not because he's a "good" character, but because I like a villain who knows he's a villain than someone who feeds people bullshit about "working for the realm". Varys lost me the moment he lectured Ned Stark on honor. Don't get me wrong, I know Ned has faults, and I do put part of the blame of what happened at KL on his shoulders, but I don't want someone like Varys giving Ned a lecture (as though it's somehow honourable of himself to start a war just to plant his own pawn on the Iron Throne).

I confess that when I first got introduced to the books years ago by my sister, I wasn't in the mood to get really into a series of 4 doorstoppers (which wasn't even completed) so I only read some POV chapters that really interested me. Dany was the first of these, which is why I will always have a sweet spot for her in my heart even if her story hasn't been going the way I imagined at all. Tyrion and Sansa were two others, and though Tyrion has fallen out of favor with me (due to events that occurred in ADWD), Sansa is still a favourite and I must have the most shallow reason ever for starting to like Sansa's character - I liked the sound of her name. It's interesting that even though the story is so interwoven with all the characters, I was still able to pick out the prominent feeling associated with these characters' chapters. And before anyone mauls me for not reading the series thoroughly, I did in fact get reintroduced to the series a year ago, and have now read all five books (even POVs that don't interest me at all).

you know I agree with you on quite a few points here. The bits about Sansa's name and Little Finger in particular. I also believe Arrianne is an amazing character who so far has been way underused by GRRM

[Lion of Judah]

I confess, I would like to know WK's opinion on this:

[suggestive content]

Genuinely. I think it is problematic in a number of ways.

It's ok with me. :drunk:

[Kolantero]

Yep, she's not a good person at all. She's guilty of multiple crimes including treason, murder, torture, conspiracy to commit murder and so on. But she should have a trial, be found guilty, and executed.

I'm personally against capital punishment but execution is the norm in ASOIAF so I can deal with that.

If Cersei should be executed for her crimes and since the WoS is a more lenient punishment than execution (which she will probably escape thanks to RS) then how is it unfair towards Cersei to be punished with the WoS?

[RedBean]

you know I agree with you on quite a few points here. The bits about Sansa's name and Little Finger in particular. I also believe Arrianne is an amazing character who so far has been way underused by GRRM

I'm hoping Arianne gets a more prominent role in the coming books. Even if she was introduced late, I'm quite interested in her storyline, and I think it's the only thing that's going to salvage Dorne's story for me.

[JonisnoGarySnow]

If Cersei should be executed for her crimes and since the WoS is a more lenient punishment than execution (which she will probably escape thanks to RS) then how is it unfair towards Cersei to be punished with the WoS?

It's the manner of punishment, not how severe it was. The punishment was supposed to sexually humiliate her, and wasn't a punishment for her actual crimes, it was a punishment for fucking a Kettleback. Not cool man.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Now that sam is mentioned, I must confess, I hate him. He just really annoys me. His whole whaaa why me attitude pisses me off. He is born of a lord and better off then 99% of people in westeros yet instead of making the best of it he mopes around like a big baby. I hate to say this, but sonny needs to man up.

Ha yea. I hate to say "man up" because it makes me sound like a douche but really thats what he needs to do.

/rant over

To those who say sexism against men isnt a thing, i present to you the above posts.

Sam? Jesus Christ, E Ro, his father raked him over the coals for being a butterball, and eventually told him he'd hunt him down dangerous game style if he didn't gtfo. This probably has a lot to do with why he mopes.

Is it less conventional? Mance is hot in a kind of rock star way I felt.

I know right...geeze.

You know, i dont even remember what Mance looks like. Its his personality and badassery that really stands out. I cant recall his physical description at all.

Your right, he did make himself better, in todays world. 21st century earth. Not westeros though, its a martial soceity and the noble houses have to fight to survive. The lords job is a martial one, you are given land and in return you raise men and fight when called upon. Randyle should have let him become a maester but didnt, that was wrong true, but I still think sam bought it on himself.

:stillsick:

If this nonsense can get away with being said, than i think it only fair when i say Sansa bugs me because she escapes into her own head too much and relies on others around her far too much. But ill never say she brought it on herself cuz she really never did.

[Kolantero]

It's the manner of punishment, not how severe it was. The punishment was supposed to sexually humiliate her, and wasn't a punishment for her actual crimes, it was a punishment for fucking a Kettleback. Not cool man.

Alright but that's a different matter from what i asked. It's one thing to dislike the punishment because its a sexist one or dislike the punisher (High Septon) for handing out a sexist punishment. But i am talking specifically about what Cersei deserves.

I just cannot understand how can person X deserve punishment A and not deserve punishment B at the same time when punishment A is worse than punishment B

[sifth]

I'm hoping Arianne gets a more prominent role in the coming books. Even if she was introduced late, I'm quite interested in her storyline, and I think it's the only thing that's going to salvage Dorne's story for me.

I don't know, i rather like the Dorne plot, but part of that might just be my love for The Red Viper

[Kittykatknits]

If Cersei should be executed for her crimes and since the WoS is a more lenient punishment than execution (which she will probably escape thanks to RS) then how is it unfair towards Cersei to be punished with the WoS?

It's the manner of punishment, not how severe it was. The punishment was supposed to sexually humiliate her, and wasn't a punishment for her actual crimes, it was a punishment for fucking a Kettleback. Not cool man.

What JonisnoGarySnow said. I don't think sexual assault is an appropriate form of punishment ever. And it was a punishment for having sex, not for an actual crime like murder or torture. I'm not saying she doesn't deserve punishment, she's guilty as all get out. I'm saying she deserves a humane form of punishment.

Whenever this stuff comes up, I always ask myself What Would Ned Do? Well, I'm pretty darn certain he wouldn't strip her, shave off her hair and march her naked through the streets of KL. Not that Lancel, one of the men who she "fornicated" with was not punished at all. Ned would try her, find her guilty, and then execute her with a single stroke of his blade.