Tyrion and 'Aegon's' cyvasse game = foreshadowing?

[nekrohsis]

Just a little something I noticed yesterday, while re-reading ADWD. The cyvasse game between Tyrion and 'Aegon' seems to be loaded with foreshadowing and symbolism. I was wondering what this might predict about the future.

First, Tyrion plays off 'Aegon's' pride to goad him into playing. Aegon puts his dragons, elephants, and heavy horse up front. Tyrion permits him to go first. Aegon tries to move a dragon, but Tyrion councils him against it, saying it's dangerous to bring your dragon out too soon. This reminds me of Aegon's invasion of Westeros. Tyrion goads him into it out of pride. He's got elephants and cavalry, but he doesn't have dragons--because Dany is still in Essos, believing that it's too dangerous to bring out her dragons too soon or at all.

They talk about Rhaegar and Tyrion insinuates that Aegon might be a fake. Aegon takes offense at this and explains how Varys hid him. He says that Dany must marry him. They talk about Dany's character. Aegon moves his heavy horse. Tyrion thinks Aegon reminds him of Joff and moves his crossbows. So here we get the contrast set up between Aegon and Dany. The heavy horse is where knights traditionally fight. The crossbows very much represent Tyrion, specifically Tyrion as a murderer. So we see the honorable, straightforward tactics of knighthood (the honor Varys praised in Aegon) being opposed by the dishonorable tactics of Tyrion.

Tyrion advises Aegon to trust no one as he pushes his black dragon across a range of mountains. He then tells Aegon he should journey to Westeros and raise his banners. The black dragon is interesting because it can represent a Blackfyre, indicating Aegon is a fake, or Drogon, in which case it represents Dany. Either way, Tyrion's the one making it take action. Pushing it across a range of mountain could mean urging it to overcome an obstacle. So this might be linked to him telling a secret Blackfyre to go to Westeros, or some future advice he might have for Dany.

Tyrion talks about how his sister is an incompetent ruler and that Aegon should take advantage of that. Aegon says he can't conquer Westeros without the dragons. Tyrion tells him that Dany will come the second she hears Aegon is alive and fighting to retake the throne. He then moves his dragon once more and announces that he has Aegon in checkmake. Aegon says his dragon could break it, but Tyrion says no--his dragon is too far away from the center of battle. He lied to Aegon about not bringing it out early. "Keep your dragon close". An angry Aegon knocks the board over. Tyrion gets down on his hands and knees to pick it up.

This shows that Tyrion has a pretty decent understanding of Dany's psyche--she won't marry some boy with nothing to offer her, but she might marry a nephew who's fighting to regain the Iron Throne. Putting Aegon's king in check shows just how big an advantage dragons give you--but that words can be enough to put a dragon out of commission. This might foreshadow someone (possibly Tyrion) using lies to prevent an alliance between Dany and Aegon, while Dany uses her dragons as a weapon of war against him. But then the board is knocked over, just when Tyrion obtains victory. Could foreshadow the invasion of the Others putting an end to the Game of Thrones. Tyrion thinks sarcastically that Aegon's temper proves he's a real Targ--but this could foreshadow a real Targ knocking over the 'board' of the GoT. And in the end, despite winning through superior strategies and tactics, it's Tyrion who ends up kneeling to pick up the pieces.

Thoughts? Alternate ideas? And yes, I stopped putting quotes around 'Aegon' because it got too annoying, not because I think he's real or anything. After reading this, I'm also thinking that Tyrion suspects Aegon isn't real--he was the one who found the boy's clothing in Illyrio's manse and it's through his POV we get most of our clues Aegon is false. I'm sure someone as smart and jaded as him is suspicious of Aegon's claim.

[Kanon]

There is another game in AFFC between Myrcela and Trystane , and the sample chapter for TWOW has another game between Tyrion and BBP. I think all of these games are foreshadowing something that happened or will happen.

[NitzanLeo]

The only thing I got from this is that Tyrion will end up as king.

Just kidding. xD I love what you did here, this is very thorough and I believe every word here can be a foreshadowing indeed. Great, great job.

[the Scorpion Knight]

Just a little something I noticed yesterday, while re-reading ADWD. The cyvasse game between Tyrion and 'Aegon' seems to be loaded with foreshadowing and symbolism. I was wondering what this might predict about the future.

First, Tyrion plays off 'Aegon's' pride to goad him into playing. Aegon puts his dragons, elephants, and heavy horse up front. Tyrion permits him to go first. Aegon tries to move a dragon, but Tyrion councils him against it, saying it's dangerous to bring your dragon out too soon. This reminds me of Aegon's invasion of Westeros. Tyrion goads him into it out of pride. He's got elephants and cavalry, but he doesn't have dragons--because Dany is still in Essos, believing that it's too dangerous to bring out her dragons too soon or at all.

They talk about Rhaegar and Tyrion insinuates that Aegon might be a fake. Aegon takes offense at this and explains how Varys hid him. He says that Dany must marry him. They talk about Dany's character. Aegon moves his heavy horse. Tyrion thinks Aegon reminds him of Joff and moves his crossbows. So here we get the contrast set up between Aegon and Dany. The heavy horse is where knights traditionally fight. The crossbows very much represent Tyrion, specifically Tyrion as a murderer. So we see the honorable, straightforward tactics of knighthood (the honor Varys praised in Aegon) being opposed by the dishonorable tactics of Tyrion.

Tyrion advises Aegon to trust no one as he pushes his black dragon across a range of mountains. He then tells Aegon he should journey to Westeros and raise his banners. The black dragon is interesting because it can represent a Blackfyre, indicating Aegon is a fake, or Drogon, in which case it represents Dany. Either way, Tyrion's the one making it take action. Pushing it across a range of mountain could mean urging it to overcome an obstacle. So this might be linked to him telling a secret Blackfyre to go to Westeros, or some future advice he might have for Dany.

Tyrion talks about how his sister is an incompetent ruler and that Aegon should take advantage of that. Aegon says he can't conquer Westeros without the dragons. Tyrion tells him that Dany will come the second she hears Aegon is alive and fighting to retake the throne. He then moves his dragon once more and announces that he has Aegon in checkmake. Aegon says his dragon could break it, but Tyrion says no--his dragon is too far away from the center of battle. He lied to Aegon about not bringing it out early. "Keep your dragon close". An angry Aegon knocks the board over. Tyrion gets down on his hands and knees to pick it up.

This shows that Tyrion has a pretty decent understanding of Dany's psyche--she won't marry some boy with nothing to offer her, but she might marry a nephew who's fighting to regain the Iron Throne. Putting Aegon's king in check shows just how big an advantage dragons give you--but that words can be enough to put a dragon out of commission. This might foreshadow someone (possibly Tyrion) using lies to prevent an alliance between Dany and Aegon, while Dany uses her dragons as a weapon of war against him. But then the board is knocked over, just when Tyrion obtains victory. Could foreshadow the invasion of the Others putting an end to the Game of Thrones. Tyrion thinks sarcastically that Aegon's temper proves he's a real Targ--but this could foreshadow a real Targ knocking over the 'board' of the GoT. And in the end, despite winning through superior strategies and tactics, it's Tyrion who ends up kneeling to pick up the pieces.

Thoughts? Alternate ideas? And yes, I stopped putting quotes around 'Aegon' because it got too annoying, not because I think he's real or anything. After reading this, I'm also thinking that Tyrion suspects Aegon isn't real--he was the one who found the boy's clothing in Illyrio's manse and it's through his POV we get most of our clues Aegon is false. I'm sure someone as smart and jaded as him is suspicious of Aegon's claim.

tyrion doesn't get it that the clothes he wears were aegons (he never mentions that thought in his chapter)

I have the feeling that Tyrions ruse is gone horribly right (from tyrions POV). yes aegon listend to tyrions advice but instead of putting him in the in lost ground.

he is in there to grab everything where everthing falls apart

[Bolivar]

I can't agree that Tyrion thinks Aegon's fake, at least not from what we've read in his chapters. There would've been more.

Also, I don't think the boys clothes is what you all think it is. They were all pretty unique. Don't you think Aegon himself would have recognized them?

[the Scorpion Knight]

I can't agree that Tyrion thinks Aegon's fake, at least not from what we've read in his chapters. There would've been more.

Also, I don't think the boys clothes is what you all think it is. They were all pretty unique. Don't you think Aegon himself would have recognized them?

Aegon is surprisingly good at hiding his emotions and thought

(he surprised JonC of all people with his ideas and his charisma)

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

I can't agree that Tyrion thinks Aegon's fake, at least not from what we've read in his chapters. There would've been more.

Also, I don't think the boys clothes is what you all think it is. They were all pretty unique. Don't you think Aegon himself would have recognized them?

I agree. Tyrion is suspicious, as he should be, but seems pretty open to the idea as being a possibility. The whole point of the game was to get inside of Aegon's head and turn him towards Westeros.

With the Golden Company, Jon Connington, a Targaryen heir, and financial backing by Illyrio, Tyrion likely thought that he could have achieved all of his goals without ever having to travel all the way to Slavers' Bay. Once he was captured by Jorah and received the word that Aegon was taking ship for Westeros, he curses himself for not being with them and giving in to his base need for prostitutes.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

Aegon is surprisingly good at hiding his emotions and emtions and thought

(he surprised JonC of all people with his ideas and his charisma)

Fake or not, Tyrion may have awakened a sleeping Dragon. If he does not get himself killed in the process, Aegon may prove himself to be as charismatic and attractive a King as Rhaegar. He bent the Golden Company to his will and will soon meet Aryanne. It will be interesting.

[Fire Eater]

Dany is the dragon, there's no doubt about that. I think Tyrion was offering sincere advice to Aegon as he was his hope to gain Casterly Rock and get his revenge on Cersei.

This foreshadows Aegon taking Tyrion's advice in not taking the dragon out (going to Dany and bringing her with him to Westeros), and the king (Aegon) is dead with Tyrion saying that his dragon "was too far away to save you. You should have moved her to the center of the battle." In other words, Dany could still be in Meereen when Aegon is killed, and too far away to save him.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

I always kind of thought it was foreshadowing the Starks playing the game because of all the talk about when to play your dragon. Assuming R + L and Sansa having knowledge of it in ados and littlefinger telling her to make some moves that work against her and make no sense it could be her playing for jon "snow" letting the faith/blackfyer's win then playing jon targ thus blowing up the board and "leaving" a Lannister (either jamie or tryion or both) to pick the pieces up while Dany flies north to Jon, a true scion of house T, hard pressed and surrounded by Others in the north or whatever Tyrion says during the game

[Lion of Judah]

Tyrion did a very good job at manipulating Aegon, he doesn't trust Griff as much as he once did.

[NitzanLeo]

Dany is the dragon, there's no doubt about that. I think Tyrion was offering sincere advice to Aegon as he was his hope to gain Casterly Rock and get his revenge on Cersei.

This foreshadows Aegon taking Tyrion's advice in not taking the dragon out (going to Dany and bringing her with him to Westeros), and the king (Aegon) is dead with Tyrion saying that his dragon "was too far away to save you. You should have moved her to the center of the battle." In other words, Dany could still be in Meereen when Aegon is killed, and too far away to save him.

I feel so silly that I didn't think of this Dany=Dragons analogy. Guh...

[Ice Turtle]

Dany is the dragon, there's no doubt about that. I think Tyrion was offering sincere advice to Aegon as he was his hope to gain Casterly Rock and get his revenge on Cersei.

This foreshadows Aegon taking Tyrion's advice in not taking the dragon out (going to Dany and bringing her with him to Westeros), and the king (Aegon) is dead with Tyrion saying that his dragon "was too far away to save you. You should have moved her to the center of the battle." In other words, Dany could still be in Meereen when Aegon is killed, and too far away to save him.

I always thought so too, but it goes against Dance of dragons II theory, thanks to the prophecy, Dany was never meant to be his ally. I think that she will be the one to kill him. Could the far away dragon be Jon with Aegon refusing alliance?

[the Scorpion Knight]

Tyrion did a very good job at manipulating Aegon, he doesn't trust Griff as much as he once did.

he still trust JonC. he just stopped being walked over.

[NitzanLeo]

I always thought so too, but it goes against Dance of dragons II theory, thanks to the prophecy, Dany was never meant to be his ally. I think that she will be the one to kill him. Could the far away dragon be Jon with Aegon refusing alliance?

To continue on that line of thought, do you think that because each of the players has a dragon, one for Tyrion and one for Aegon, then perhaps the dragons Tyrion kept close to himself is actually Dany? Did he mean to get to Mereen from the start? I doubt that, but perhaps it was a foreshadowing that didn't have much to do with whatever Tyrion's plan was.

[Despot]

@ nekrohsis - really good theory! I think you got it right.

[Black Wolf Smith]

I believe some ways back that we discussed this in Heresy. IIRC some of this has already played out, so yes I agree with the basic theory.

[liliette]

Two things. =) 1,

First, Tyrion plays off 'Aegon's' pride to goad him into playing. ... Tyrion goads him into it out of pride. ...

They talk about Rhaegar and Tyrion insinuates that Aegon might be a fake. Aegon takes offense at this and explains how Varys hid him. He says that Dany must marry him. They talk about Dany's character. Aegon moves his heavy horse. Tyrion thinks Aegon reminds him of Joff and moves his crossbows. So here we get the contrast set up between Aegon and Dany. The heavy horse is where knights traditionally fight. The crossbows very much represent Tyrion, specifically Tyrion as a murderer. So we see the honorable, straightforward tactics of knighthood (the honor Varys praised in Aegon) being opposed by the dishonorable tactics of Tyrion.

I find this ironic. If Aegon is truly honorable then how can he be goaded into things by pride? As for the dishonorable tactics of Tyrion, are they? He wishes to teach the boy a lesson. I'd say those are quite honorable tactics. It's called strategy. In fact, Tyrion is 1 of my favorite characters for that very reason. He treats people exactly the way they act towards him. He treats decent people decently & horrid people w/ contempt. It's quite admirable in 1 dealt w/ such a bad hand, if you think about it. What I find most telling in all of this is Tyrion thinks Aegon reminds him of Joff. Joff is 1 of the most contemptible characters I've met so far & this young man has reminds Tyrion of him? And Varys says Aegon is honorable. Really? I find that interesting.

2,

Putting Aegon's king in check shows just how big an advantage dragons give you--but that words can be enough to put a dragon out of commission. This might foreshadow someone (possibly Tyrion) using lies to prevent an alliance between Dany and Aegon, while Dany uses her dragons as a weapon of war against him.

Could the words be the prophecy by Quaithe? She did say in ADWD, Daenerys II, p 153, "Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

Varys is a mummer, as is Illyrio, & it is there Dragon they created, is he not? Just an idea. *shrugging*

[Brownk48]

Once he was captured by Jorah and received the word that Aegon was taking ship for Westeros, he curses himself for not being with them and giving in to his base need for prostitutes.

Quite the opposite. When Tyrion finds out of Aegon's change of plans, he states "could the pretty princeling have swallowed the bait? Turned them west instead of east, abandoning his hopes of wedding Queen Daenerys? Abandoning the dragons... Will Griff allow that?" On the next page when he finds out he is going to Daenarys instead of Cercei he states "we're going east, and Griff and his prince are going west, bloody fools".

Tyrion is clearly playing the game of thrones as an actual game; he simply enjoys manipulating other people's minds and to make them second guess their own instincts. It's similar to what Moqorro sees in his fires, Moqorro sees "dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of it all". Clearly, Tyrion loves his game of thrones and will continue to make other key players second guess themselves.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

Quite the opposite. When Tyrion finds out of Aegon's change of plans, he states "could the pretty princeling have swallowed the bait? Turned them west instead of east, abandoning his hopes of wedding Queen Daenerys? Abandoning the dragons... Will Griff allow that?" On the next page when he finds out he is going to Daenarys instead of Cercei he states "we're going east, and Griff and his prince are going west, bloody fools".

Tyrion is clearly playing the game of thrones as an actual game; he simply enjoys manipulating other people's minds and to make them second guess their own instincts. It's similar to what Moqorro sees in his fires, Moqorro sees "dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of it all". Clearly, Tyrion loves his game of thrones and will continue to make other key players second guess themselves.

ADWD p.760 Tyrion Chapter (US Hardcover): By now Griff and Duck and Haldon Half-maester should be in Westeros with their young prince. " I should be with them...but no, I had to have a whore. Kinslaying was not enough, I needed cunt and wine to seal my ruin, and here I am on the wrong side of the world, wearing a slaw collar with little golden bells to announce my coming.

I totally agree that he is playing "The Game." My contention is that he always wanted to turn towards Westeros. Going to Dany was a dangerous gambit, as she might kill him before she makes use of him. Aegon offered a different path altogether. A safer route back to Westeros other than by way of Slaver's Bay. Tyrion was shocked we he learned that Connington had the Golden Company. That was his primary plan for winning the "Rock."