E-Ro Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 I suppose so, it just seems rather unlikely. Almost as unlikely as the Ironborn holding the Riverlands and most of the west coast of Westeros...I cant speak for the ironborn, but the stormlands breed men like robert, stannis, beric dondarion, barristan selmy, and the basterd of nightsong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 I suppose so, it just seems rather unlikely. Almost as unlikely as the Ironborn holding the Riverlands and most of the west coast of Westeros...Or England conquering half the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherbeef Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 I cant speak for the ironborn, but the stormlands breed men like robert, stannis, beric dondarion, barristan selmy, and the basterd of nightsong.and Lyonel Baratheon and Balon Swann and Brienne. Though i don't know if Beric getting himself killed six times over is something to brag about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 Though i don't know if Beric getting himself killed six times over is something to brag about.But before that he was very skilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherbeef Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 But before that he was very skilled.True, and three of his deaths were at the hands of the Clegane bros. No shame in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Or England conquering half the world.Britain conquered half the world, and even then had a tentative grip, and did a hell of a lot of damage. I'm English btw, but the empire was a dick move.I imagine the Storm king, and Greyjoys conquered what they did, was because they conquered bit by bit, and their subjects never united in one form to fight against them together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDDUnit Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Population wise, my estimate:Reach - 10m - density 25/square mileNorth - 6m - density 5/sq.mRiverlands -6m - density 20/sq.mWesterlands - 4m - density 20/sq.mVale - 4m - density - 15/sq.mStormlands - 3m - density - 15/sq.mDorne - 2.5m - density - 10/sq.mIron Isles - 1m. Crazy densityI'll check these figures more carefully tomorrow when I have my maps in front of me. Right now, I imagine the order of geographical size goes:NorthReachRiverlandsDorneValeWesterlandsStormlandsIron IslesI need to go back and check how the sizes of the Vale, Stormlands and Westerlands compare to each other though. To be continued...I like all you said except for Doran Martell states that Dorne is the least populated of all of the seven kingdoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I imagine the Storm king, conquered what they did, was because they conquered bit by bit, and their subjects never united in one form to fight against them together.Can you blame them, if you had a king like stannis would you rebel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Can you blame them, if you had a king like stannis would you rebel?I was talking about Argilac (sp?) and Harren, neither of which are anything like Stannis. Harren seems to have been all about shock, and awe (Harrenhall, basically a penis metaphor) and Argilac seems to have been incredibly aggressive. I don't see Stannis in either.Stannis has in fact a skill for uniting people against him. (He's still awesome though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Stannis has in fact a skill for uniting people against him. (He's still awesome though)Except the men that followed him to the wall and the men marching through a blizard with him. They seem united with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Except the men that followed him to the wall and the men marching through a blizard with him. They seem united with him.He has a extremely loyal core group no doubt, how much of that is due to Mel is debatable. But the Northerners are there for Ned and because they hate Freys and Boltons. Either way he lost the vast majority of his host, and he was the Stormlanders second choice, even though they all knew he should have been first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherbeef Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I was talking about Argilac (sp?) and Harren, neither of which are anything like Stannis. Harren seems to have been all about shock, and awe (Harrenhall, basically a penis metaphor) and Argilac seems to have been incredibly aggressive. I don't see Stannis in either.Stannis has in fact a skill for uniting people against him. (He's still awesome though)neither of those guys were kings at the apex of their respective kingdoms, but i suppose the point still stands. It is also interesting that is was the ironborn that took the riverlands from the Storm Kings and not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 He has a extremely loyal core group no doubt, how much of that is due to Mel is debatable. But the Northerners are there for Ned and because they hate Freys and Boltons. Either way he lost the vast majority of his host, and he was the Stormlanders second choice, even though they all knew he should have been first.The problem with the stormlords was that renly was their lord, as lord of storms end. If stannis were lord of storms end they would have been fighting for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 neither of those guys were kings at the apex of their respective kingdoms, but i suppose the point still stands. It is also interesting that is was the ironborn that took the riverlands from the Storm Kings and not the other way around.It seems the ironborns usage of ships allowed them to be effective in the riverlands, thats my geuss anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 neither of those guys were kings at the apex of their respective kingdoms, but i suppose the point still stands. It is also interesting that is was the ironborn that took the riverlands from the Storm Kings and not the other way around.Harren certainly was, the Ironborn have never as far as we know had greater holdings. But the Storm kings certainly were sliding down the scale, they were more powerful then than they were pre Wo5K.Harren seems to have been an extremely effective military leader, or at least had access to them. Argilcs fear of him, sparked the conquest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherbeef Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 The problem with the stormlords was that renly was their lord, as lord of storms end. If stannis were lord of storms end they would have been fighting for him.i've always thought about that. I am not disagreeing but If i was a Storm Lord that wanted Stannis as king, and i'm already rebelling against the iron throne, why not join Stannis? You are already a traitor (Renly declared before anyone knew Joff was illegitimate), why not at least get behind who you want? Or did it have more to do with the fact Renly already had the Highgarden alliance, making victory very likely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 i've always thought about that. I am not disagreeing but If i was a Storm Lord that wanted Stannis as king, and i'm already rebelling against the iron throne, why not join Stannis? You are already a traitor (Renly declared before anyone knew Joff was illegitimate), why not at least get behind who you want? Or did it have more to do with the fact Renly already had the Highgarden alliance, making victory very likely?Its probably a combination of stannis not declaring untill after renly and the tyrells marriage to renly making victory likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherbeef Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Harren certainly was, the Ironborn have never as far as we know had greater holdings. But the Storm kings certainly were sliding down the scale, they were more powerful then than they were pre Wo5K.Harren seems to have been an extremely effective military leader, or at least had access to them. Argilcs fear of him, sparked the conquest.i was under the impression the ironborn lost a good amount of the land they conquered previously (in the west perhaps) before gaining the riverlands. i could be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Well under Quored, they ruled the coast from Bear Island to the Arbour. But I never thought they really 'ruled' with any massive assurance, just were unopposed naval wise. And we know that Casterly Rock has never been taken, so the phrase should be taken with a pinch of salt. I'd say under Harren they had a much firmer grip on lands, and a much larger terrestrial army.Anyway need to go to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franko99 Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Argilcs fear of him, sparked the conquest.Yeah, in the end everything is Angelic's fault isn't it? When finally a Baratheon (who are descendants from te Storm Kings by female line) overthrown the Targs it felt somehow like justice.Anyways, by the time of AGOT the Baratheons of Storm's Ends (to mark a difference from the KL and Dragonstone branchs) were not even close as powerful as the old Storm Kings. They still make great soldiers like Robert, Stannis, Balon, Barristan, Brienne, etc. One does not simply mess with the marcher Lords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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