Can Aegon really have Targ blood if he abandons the chance of getting dragons?

[Bayard]

Aemon can't be representative for all Targaryens.... he loved Egg, and Aegon died trying to get dragons. I think it was a very traumatic experience for Aemon. Maybe he was even a part of the Summerhall incident, providing info through ravens.

[Dr. Pepper]

Yeah, Dr. P, but Maester Aemon was not the narrator of that Chapter; Samwell was :)

This doesn't mean that Aemon is a reliable character. The characters with their own POVs are not the only unreliable ones in the series. That's the point. Words are wind.

[Old-Growth]

Also the dream the good Maester referred to was not his, it was that of his older brother Daeron who was known for true dreams.

[Dr. Pepper]

Also the dream the good Maester referred to was not his, it was that of his older brother Daeron who was known for true dreams.

The example we have of Daeron's dragon dreams were about people. He dreamed a black dragon fell from the sky on Dunk. It turned out to be Baelor Breakspear.

[Old-Growth]

Just what "my brother's dream" was about may be now lost, since Aemon and his older brother are both dead. But the way Aemon referred to it suggests that what ever it was, it was about something that had not yet come to pass, and it likely had to do with real dragons whatever else it was about, given the context in which Aemon mentioned it. And Aemon was a wise and learned man: I would not be so quick to assume you know better than he.

[Dr. Pepper]

Just what "my brother's dream" was about may be now lost, since Aemon and his older brother are both dead. But the way Aemon referred to it suggests that what ever it was, it was about something that had not yet come to pass, and it likely had to do with real dragons whatever else it was about, given the context in which Aemon mentioned it. And Aemon was a wise and learned man: I would not be so quick to assume you know better than he.

Aemon is wise and learned but that does not mean he is an expert. We have examples of Daeron's dreams from D&E. They are not about literal dragons. For all we know, Aemon's death rattle was about a dream Daeron had about a person...perhaps even Dany. Perhaps he dreamed a yellow dragon, a dragon the color of lemons. Or a dragon the color of a certain red door or a green dragon like the color of the dothraki sea. Or a firey dragon. Or whatever. Aemon is making a connection with Daeron's dreams and Mel's prophecy that isn't necessarily there. Yet, it's easy for us to infer that the dream was not about literal dragons since we know Daeron's dreams weren't about literal dragons.

[Old-Growth]

We do not know the content of this dream in question, but you are offering an inference from a small sample---not exactly reliable. I repeat, what Aemon says suggests something different from we saw in the Hedge Knight, if only in the time scale. As for the AAR prophecy, Aemon knows ex hypothesi more than you or I, such as the full text.

[Ser Lepus]

Aegon Dragonbane was a Targayren who hated and feared dragons. I think the dragons obsession is something adquired, not inherited. Young Griff has been educated by Jon Connington, who probably doesn't care too much about dragons.

[Lummel]

It might be worth pointing out that not every single Targ has had these "dragon dreams."...

Even John the Fiddler in The Mystery Knight has dragon dreams. Dragons are not mentioned in connection with Aegon except in relation to the history lesson, which by following Tyrion's advise Aegon ignores.

But since we don't know how common dragon dreaming and dragon obsessing was in the targaryen generations after Aemon's we can't know how significant this is.

More interesting as evidence of Aegon as a fake is that when Targaryens dream of other targaryens in the Hedge Knight and the The Mystery Knight they see dragons, when Daenerys has a vision of Aegon she sees a cloth dragon mounted on poles.

[Narea]

Even John the Fiddler in The Mystery Knight has dragon dreams. Dragons are not mentioned in connection with Aegon except in relation to the history lesson, which by following Tyrion's advise Aegon ignores.

John the Fiddler was Daemon II Blackfyre, as such he did have Targ blood, was connected to dragons and could have the dreams...and his dream in TMK about a dragon rising that night at Whitewalls also depicts a Targaryen- Egg revealing himself as such (not a smart move).

And yes, there were apparently some Targs that didn't care much for dragons and thanks mainly to them and maesters employed to "take care" of the dragons there are no more dragons in the beginning of the series.

[Hear Us Roar]

It is important for him to establish a power base in westeros, Dany will arrive with the dragons at some point and he can meet her then.

[SerBrightflame]

Aegon Dragonbane. Enough said.

[franko99]

It might be worth pointing out that not every single Targ has had these "dragon dreams."

What's the connection though? Aemon wants to break his oaths not because of dragon dreams, but because Dany, ostensibly the last of his line, seems to fit his understanding of Azor Ahai.

This is honestly a really strange leap in logic to take from this. Aegon simply turned around and didn't pursue dragons because Tyrion told him that Dany would not be receptive to someone who came without his own power to add to hers. He still wants the dragons, but is going about it more strategically than walking up to her and asking (or walking up to a dragon and "taming" it a la Quentyn).

Again, he's not dismissing the dragons. Tyrion actually gave him good advice. Why would Dany-- who has plenty of dragons and power in her own right-- agree to marry Aegon without gaining something in return? Why would she share what she has with him (that she largely earned, honestly) just because he shows up? She'd be far more amenable to Aegon if he earned some power first in his own right-- so they could be mutual assets without Aegon's siphoning off her power. It's a different appraoch to getting dragons.

Now back on topic, I agree 110% with this :agree:

[Philip Baratheon]

"You Westerosi are all the same. You sew some beast upon a scrap of silk, and suddenly you are all lions or dragons or eagles."

Aegon VI Targaryen is not a dragon, he's a human being. That his ancestors once rode them and thus made them the banner of his house doesn't necessitate any kind of connection between the animals and the person. Aegon isn't even required to like them to be a Targaryen, was it not Aegon III, a king of the Targaryen dynasty, who disliked dragons?

[otherbeef]

not all family members have identical personalities

[Buried Treasure]

Aemon said something like 'my brothers dreamt of dragons, and the dreams killed them, every one.'

Daeron is a fairly staightforward case. He inherited the Targaryen prophetic dream ability and that made him miserable enough that he drank and whored himself to an early death. His prophecies that were fulfilled in his lifetime were mostly of his family members as represented in the dreams by their House sigil the dragon (consistent with prophets seeing things closest to them more easily). His dragon prophecies fulfilled in his lifetime could only be metaphoric dragons as literal dragons did not then exist. However Egg did say 'the dragons will return, my brother saw it in a dream' (paraphrasing) which could be a prophecy that was only fulfilled when Dany's literal dragons were born. Aemon, in his fevered and dying state, evidently had his own weak gift of prophecy awoken and had dreams of the future actions of the dragons that do now actually exist.

I confess it has been too long since I read D&E but I do not recall any mention of Aerion or Egg sharing the dream ability, or at least none had developed at that stage in their lives. I think these two dreamt of dragons in the same way I, and thousands of others, dreamt of ponies as a young girl - a desire to have them. This is consistent with them both dying in attempts to bring dragons back to the world. Aerion thought drinking wildfire would transform him into a dragon, he is evidence some Targaryens were insane but not evidence that all Targs have a supernatural link to dragons. We have much yet to learn of Summerhall but Egg may have been trying to hatch dragons because he was reading the same texts as Rhaegar about the need for dragons, or if not perhaps because he wanted to strengthen the prestige of his House by restoring their symbol, rather than his Targaryen blood urging him to seek dragons.

Mostly I think Targaryens are associated with dragons not because of a supernatural link but because they are the only House in the history of Westeros to have ever owned them, and that has been the source of much of their power and wealth. Other noble houses are not supernaturally linked with their money, lands, weapons or their horses, but they still are not willing to share those things with the peasants. Dany is the exception, she has a link with her dragons, but she was part of the spell that hatched them (and because we don't know why the magic worked ,we don't know if it wouldn't have still been successful even if she were not a Targaryen).

I don't actually think Aegon is a Targ or a Blackfyre, but lets say for the moment he is. There is no particular reason he feels a strong urge to get the dragons because:

- he's not one of the really insane Targs.

- he's not one of the few Targaryens to have inherited the prophetic dream ability, telling him he needs the dragons.

- he's not read the prophecies that say how important dragons are.

And remember, in his plan Dany will ally herself with him when she reaches Westeros, so he is still going to get the dragons as a symbol and effective weapon, just a little bit later.

[Angalin]

That was an interesting exercise in post deletion. If you can't be polite to another poster, especially if you know from past experience that you don't agree on things, don't engage with him or her. And don't make lewd comments about other boarders, either.

[Lion of Judah]

I think it was a smart decision to not go after the dragons and I suspect that by the time he gets to Dany she is going to have an idea that he is a fake. Word is already spreading through KL that the boy is a fake, Randyll Tarly said as much, so the chances of him getting to sniff those dragons unless they are burning him alive are slim.

[joluoto]

I think a lot of the connection between the Targaryens and dragons have been severed over the years. Which is why Viserys could never have awakened the dragons, and why Aegon or Jon might not at all be suitable dragon riders even if they have Targ blood.

[Sevumar]

Let's assume Aegon does have some Targaryen blood, either as the child of Rhaegar or from a Blackfyre lineage. He's been raised in circumstances (and among cultures) that were not steeped in awe of Targaryen power and tales of dragonriding. From what we know, it seems his handlers are willing to use dragons as a weapon to further their somewhat mysterious cause, but they are not the focal point of Illyrio's and Varys's plans in the same way that they were an obsession for many Targaryen monarchs.

Aegon's Targaryen identity is markedly different from that of Dany or Viserys. All three share the desire to retake the throne lost in the backlash against Aerys's excesses. But Dany and Viserys, growing up in the Red Keep, among Targaryen princes, imagery, and courtiers, are deeply vested in the traditional dragon imagery of the Targaryen dynasty. Aegon's version of being a Targaryen is more about political birthright and effective rulership instead of being so heavily invested in the trappings of Targaryen power.

To me, this shows that the obsession with dragons is a classic example of nature vs. nurture. We have yet to see any conclusive evidence that Targaryen blood transmits a unique power to control dragons. There is some evidence that there is a genetic predisposition to prophetic dreams, and that this trait shows up in both the main Targaryen and cadet Blackfyre bloodlines. Targaryens raised in an environment that emphasizes the traditional "blood of the dragon" lore about a family that possessed and then lost dragons emerge with a sense that those dragons and the power they represent are important to a sense of Targaryen identity. Aegon, who was raised in different circumstances, has a more practical view of dragons as an advantage, but not as the very core of what it means to be a Targaryen prince/monarch.