[Sample] Arianne I, round 2

[Jon Icefyre]

Ok so I just read the Arianne sample chapter for the first time in full on GRRM's website http://georgerrmarti.../if-sample.html and wow it was epic. If you havent read it yet please read it at the link I above before replying to this(Spoiler Alert!).

The chapter as a whole was great but there were a few specific thing that really stuck out to me confirming some theories and forshadowing others. The first thing that stuck out to me was the part when she talks with Ser Daemon sand about Darkstar:

Only Ser Gerold Dayne had escaped unscathed. Darkstar. If Myrcella's horse had not shied at the last instant, his longsword would have opened her from chest to waist instead just taking off her ear. Dayne was her most grievous sin, the one that Arianne most regretted. With one stroke of his sword, he had changed her botched plot into something foul and bloody. If the gods were good, by now Obara Sand had treed him in his mountain fastness and put an end to him.

She said as much to Daemon Sand that first night, as they made camp. "Be careful what you pray for, princess," he replied. "Darkstar could put an end to Lady Obara just as easily."

"She has Areo Hotah with her." Prince Doran's captain of guards had dispatched Ser Arys Oakheart with a single blow, though the Kingsguard were supposed to be the finest knights in all the realm. "No man can stand against Hotah."

"Is that what Darkstar is? A man?" Ser Daemon grimaced. "A man would not have done what he did to Princess Myrcella. Ser Gerold is more a viper than your uncle ever was. Prince Oberyn could see that he was poison, he said so more than once. It's just a pity that he never got around to killing him."

So we know that not only is Balon Swann with Obara but Areo Hotah and his longaxe as well. Doesn't look like Darkstar is makin it out alive yet Daemon Sand doesn't seem convinced. What is about Darkstar that has everyone so spooked? Does Daemon Sand know something about Darkstar that we don't? Even Oberyn acknowledged the poison that is Darkstar. Leave it it to GRRM to give us a sample chapter that gives even more mystery the legend that is Darkstar.

The second thing that stuck out to me was the fact basic confirmation that JC was indeed gay and in love with Rhaegar:

Connington was Lord of Griffin's Roost when Griffin's Roost was still a lordship worth the having. Prince Rhaegar's squire, or one of them. Later Prince Rhaegar's friend and companion. The Mad King named him Hand during Robert's Rebellion, but he was defeated at Stoney Sept in the Battle of the Bells, and Robert slipped away. King Aerys was wroth, and sent Connington into exile. There he died."

"Or not." Prince Doran had told her all of that. There must be more. "Those are just the things he did. I know all that. What sort of man was he? Honest and honorable, venal and grasping, proud?"

"Proud, for a certainty. Even arrogant. A faithful friend to Rhaegar, but prickly with others. Robert was his liege, but I've heard it said that Connington chafed at serving such a lord. Even then, Robert was known to be fond of wine and whores."

"No whores for Lord Jon, then?"

"I could not say. Some men keep their whoring secret."

"Did he have a wife? A paramour?"

Ser Daemon shrugged. "Not that I have ever heard."

That was troubling too. Ser Arys Oakheart had broken his vows for her, but it did not sound as if Jon Connington could be similarly swayed. Can I match such a man with words alone?

Ya he's gay

The third thing is Doran's suspicion on Aegon and worry of Quentyn:

Fire and blood was what Jon Connington (if indeed it was him) was offering as well. Or was it? "He comes with sellswords, but no dragons," Prince Doran had told her, the night the raven came. "The Golden Company is the best and largest of the free companies, but ten thousand mercenaries cannot hope to win the Seven Kingdoms. Elia's son... I would weep for joy if some part of my sister had survived, but what proof do we have that this is Aegon?" His voice broke when he said that. "Where are the dragons?" he asked. "Where is Daenerys?" and Arianne knew that he was really saying, "Where is my son?"

As expected getting Doran's support won't be as easy as JC expected and wow I have a bad feeling about Doran's reaction towards Dany once he finds out his son is dead.

The fourth thing that stuck out and is probably the biggest forshadowing we've seen in the series concerning the battle for the throne between Dany, Aegon, and possibly Jon snow:

"Once we know beyond a doubt whether these be friends or foes, my father will know what to do," the princess said.

It was then that pasty, pudgy Teora raised her eyes from the creamcakes on her plate. "It is dragons."

"Dragons?" said her mother. "Teora, don't be mad."

"I'm not. They're coming."

"How could you possibly know that?" her sister asked, with a note of scorn in her voice. "One of your little dreams?"

Teora gave a tiny nod, chin trembling. "They were dancing. In my dream. And everywhere the dragons danced the people died."

Ya i think there will be a second dance of dragons war and the last of the Targs will duke it out with each other in some form or another in Westeros before this is all over.

Last but not least is this:

Daemon Sand found her leaning on a parapet and gazing out to sea, where the moon was dancing on the water. "Princess," he said. "You ought to be abed."

"I could say the same of you." Arianne turned to gaze upon his face. A good face, she decided. The boy I knew has become a handsome man. His eyes were as blue as a desert sky, his hair the light brown of the sands they had just crossed. A close-cropped beard followed the thin of a strong jaw, but could not quite hide the dimples when he smiled. I always loved his smile.

The Bastard of Godsgrace was one of Dorne's finest swords as well, as might be expected from one who had been Prince Oberyn's squire and had received his knighthood from the Red Viper himself.

I have a strong feeling Daemon Sand is gonna turn out to be as big of a beast as Oberyn.

[Angalin]

Have at it. (In case you're wondering about the above post, I merged a couple of threads.)

[The Dragon has three heads]

Deamon Sand is worth watching, he loves I think but also hates that he'll never have her as more than a paramore.

Arrianne herself will most like wed Aegon, but as soon as the greyscale plague bought by JC gets out-or claims Aegon, all bets are off...

[The Mountain That Posts]

Is it just me, or is it relatively obvious that Doran most likely sent Daemon knowing of his affections toward Arianne with the objective to be the real brains and to keep Arianne safe, with the promise of Arianne's hand ultimately?

I don't know, I feel like this is the only rational reason Doran would send him knowing their history together,

[Recently]

The way i see it, Doran sends Daemon because

1.) He is more or less described as a bad-ass fighter. When your sending only a few guards, you probably want to make sure they are pretty damn good.

2.) He will more likely than not ensure her safety above all else if he loves her, at the cost of his life

3.) She is more likely to listen to him/take his advice since he is someone she knows well. Doran could be using him as his eyes/ears to help make sure she isn't doing something stupid.

Mostly because of reason 1 though. Their history doesn't matter that much; Arianne has changed enough personality wise to no longer make stupid, emotional decisions imo.

I just feel like their history and the revealing of it is a "death flag" for poor Daemon Sand in the future. It creates a bit of emotional attachment to the character as well as an emotional button to press on Arianne down the line.

[Bastard of Boston]

Something I've noticed is that not many seem to think Arianne might actually have legitimate feelings for Daemon, outside of sexual. Yes, she wanted casual sex, but my Spidey sense tingled a few times throughout that chapter. I think, because Daemon refuses her offer, he sort of becomes a different animal for Arianne. She's so used to men giving in willingly. With Oakheart, I think she might have lacked respect for him -- she appeared to bring out his weakness. You had this man -- an honorable and brave white cloak -- whose worst qualities dominated in his relationship with Arianne. He was easily manipulated and made to look like a girl-crazy knucklehead. In Daemon, you have someone who is immune to Arianne's M.O. And, more specifically, knows exactly what she's thinking. I think, with Daemon, we might see a situation which will make it harder for Arianne to throw herself at Aegon. And, maybe that's the rationale behind Doran sending Daemon. He knows there's history -- maybe he suspects Arianne has deeper feelings for Daemon, and maybe he's counting on Daemon as some sort of cock block.

[Silverin]

I just read this chapter, started reading the other thread, but it is long so maybe these things were already said but I still need to say them out.

1. The whole thing with the dragon piece in cywass.

Arianne is loosing because she only moves with the dragon. She sais because she loves that piece. I think it is a metaphore for the whole House. After all that is why Quentyn died, because he was only paying attention to the dragon. And that is what Doran's strategy mainly consist, ally with the dragon. Other pieces in cywass are like elephants. (reminder GC has elephants)

So while some sais that Arianne constantly loosing because she only plays with the dragon piece, forshadows her joining Aegon, I kinda disagree.

I do think she will join him, but not because he is a dragon. From this chapter we know that all of them are very suspicious about him. I think Arianne will be aware that he is very possibly a fake.

If she joins him I think because she starts playing with other pieces as well, like with the elephants.

2. Elia winning in the horse race.

Some sais that she represents the Dothraki, and it means they will win.

I disagree, I think it represents her winning over Arrianne. For example Arrianne trying to charm Aegon, while he likes Elia. Or Daemon whom we know Arianne has feelings for.

I think the name and her personality are kinda a bad omen together, after all both Elia and Lyanna had a horrible fate. So I am actually really worried about her. She would be definietly great friends with Arya though, if she survives, and Arya ever reaches Dorne.

I simply can't understend though why Doran would send her. She is clearly immature, young, and reckless. I feel it is incredibly dangerous for her. I wonder if she has some hidden work to do for him. Anyway if not, sending such a young free spirit to a journey like that far from her safe home is kinda cruel.

3. Aurane Waters pirate lord! I wonder wether he works with anyone at all. :pirate:

4. Krakens, krakens everywhere. Euron is really set up like some big bad boss to defeat in a game...

5. Dany needs to work on her image and PR a little bit. I mean they are already questioning why she let her husband kill Vis (we know she didn't have a choice), they might her about Quentyn's death as her fault, she comes with Dothraki, selswords, and if she accepts the Ironborns help no one will believe she is not a tyrant.

Because of this how it seems more and more that Dany's image to the outside seems like a true tyrannt, I think the only factor right now can save it, Barristan, will die before she reaches Westeros. After all with Dany there is the POV: Dany, and we might get to tyrion join her (who won't improve her image as well), I think Barristan is among the POVs that might die.

6. Dragon dreams, where the dragons dance people die. Well I think there will be a big massacre in Meereen thanks to their dance. And later in Westeros.

A maester trying to say the dreams mean nothing.

7. I think if we have another Aero Hotah chapter it wil be a prologue, about how all of them are killed by Drakstar. I too can't take him seriously but I feel like he ought to be something dangerous. So if he actually kills Hotah and saves as from one of the most boring POVs I say his badassness will definietly increase.

8. Jon Connington will die. First he has greyscale. Second Arianne is heading to Aegon, no need for two POVs there.

[Nick Baratheon]

I´m only afraid that TWOW will be as slow as ADWD. I mean, we now know there is a Tyrion chapter that consists of a game of Cyvasse,

a Victarion chapter wherein the ironborn take a Yunkai´i ship and then Victarion fingerbangs the Dusky woman, and two Arianne travelogue chapters. ......

[kephv]

I´m only afraid that TWOW will be as slow as ADWD. I mean, we now know there is a Tyrion chapter that consists of a game of Cyvasse,

a Victarion chapter wherein the ironborn take a Yunkai´i ship and then Victarion fingerbangs the Dusky woman, and two Arianne travelogue chapters. ......

It's only the beginning. Things have to be set up before they're properly executed. Also, the Tyrion chapter isn't just a game of Cyvasse.

[Jon AS]

Is it just me, or is it relatively obvious that Doran most likely sent Daemon knowing of his affections toward Arianne with the objective to be the real brains and to keep Arianne safe, with the promise of Arianne's hand ultimately?

We touched briefly on this in the last thread: Daemon is one of the people who are willing to openly voice their discontent with Doran, he's not someone Doran would rely on more than on his own daughter.

[Sandra Melis]

I've the strong suspect of Daemon Sand being involved in Arianne's small expedition with the aim of enticing Jon Connington (obviously everything has been planned by Doran).

Martin already gave us some hints:

1) Arianne thoughts about courting Jon Connington

2) JC is gay

3) Daemon Sand is bisex and comely

So... the bastard of Godsgrace will somehow seduce Connington and persuade him to join forces with Dorne!

[Ice Turtle]

So Doran send Daemon Sand to seduce JonCon and maybe Elia to seduce Aegon if had the same taste as Rhaegar?

[eggs]

The second thing that stuck out to me was the fact basic confirmation that JC was indeed gay and in love with Rhaegar:

Connington was Lord of Griffin's Roost when Griffin's Roost was still a lordship worth the having. Prince Rhaegar's squire, or one of them. Later Prince Rhaegar's friend and companion. The Mad King named him Hand during Robert's Rebellion, but he was defeated at Stoney Sept in the Battle of the Bells, and Robert slipped away. King Aerys was wroth, and sent Connington into exile. There he died."

"Or not." Prince Doran had told her all of that. There must be more. "Those are just the things he did. I know all that. What sort of man was he? Honest and honorable, venal and grasping, proud?"

"Proud, for a certainty. Even arrogant. A faithful friend to Rhaegar, but prickly with others. Robert was his liege, but I've heard it said that Connington chafed at serving such a lord. Even then, Robert was known to be fond of wine and whores."

"No whores for Lord Jon, then?"

"I could not say. Some men keep their whoring secret."

"Did he have a wife? A paramour?"

Ser Daemon shrugged. "Not that I have ever heard."

That was troubling too. Ser Arys Oakheart had broken his vows for her, but it did not sound as if Jon Connington could be similarly swayed. Can I match such a man with words alone?

Ya he's gay

How exactly is that confirmation? Jon C wouldnt be the first character to avoid whoring.

[Sandra Melis]

So Doran send Daemon Sand to seduce JonCon and maybe Elaria to seduce Aegon if had the same taste as Rhaegar?

Maybe! To be honest, it's JonCon who is looking for an alliance with its message to Sunspear, but Daemon Sand may be able to steal a better agreement and terms for Dorne.

[Sandra Melis]

How exactly is that confirmation? Jon C wouldnt be the first character to avoid whoring.

In previous chapters there are other hints about his sexual preferences, e.g. Rhaegar referred as his "Silver Prince" or his current "complicity" with Myles Toyne of the Golden Company!

[GoldenVale]

I just read this chapter, started reading the other thread, but it is long so maybe these things were already said but I still need to say them out.

1. The whole thing with the dragon piece in cywass.

Arianne is loosing because she only moves with the dragon. She sais because she loves that piece. I think it is a metaphore for the whole House. After all that is why Quentyn died, because he was only paying attention to the dragon. And that is what Doran's strategy mainly consist, ally with the dragon. Other pieces in cywass are like elephants. (reminder GC has elephants)

So while some sais that Arianne constantly loosing because she only plays with the dragon piece, forshadows her joining Aegon, I kinda disagree.

I do think she will join him, but not because he is a dragon. From this chapter we know that all of them are very suspicious about him. I think Arianne will be aware that he is very possibly a fake.

If she joins him I think because she starts playing with other pieces as well, like with the elephants.

2. Elia winning in the horse race.

Some sais that she represents the Dothraki, and it means they will win.

I disagree, I think it represents her winning over Arrianne. For example Arrianne trying to charm Aegon, while he likes Elia. Or Daemon whom we know Arianne has feelings for.

I think the name and her personality are kinda a bad omen together, after all both Elia and Lyanna had a horrible fate. So I am actually really worried about her. She would be definietly great friends with Arya though, if she survives, and Arya ever reaches Dorne.

I simply can't understend though why Doran would send her. She is clearly immature, young, and reckless. I feel it is incredibly dangerous for her. I wonder if she has some hidden work to do for him. Anyway if not, sending such a young free spirit to a journey like that far from her safe home is kinda cruel.

3. Aurane Waters pirate lord! I wonder wether he works with anyone at all. :pirate:

4. Krakens, krakens everywhere. Euron is really set up like some big bad boss to defeat in a game...

5. Dany needs to work on her image and PR a little bit. I mean they are already questioning why she let her husband kill Vis (we know she didn't have a choice), they might her about Quentyn's death as her fault, she comes with Dothraki, selswords, and if she accepts the Ironborns help no one will believe she is not a tyrant.

Because of this how it seems more and more that Dany's image to the outside seems like a true tyrannt, I think the only factor right now can save it, Barristan, will die before she reaches Westeros. After all with Dany there is the POV: Dany, and we might get to tyrion join her (who won't improve her image as well), I think Barristan is among the POVs that might die.

6. Dragon dreams, where the dragons dance people die. Well I think there will be a big massacre in Meereen thanks to their dance. And later in Westeros.

A maester trying to say the dreams mean nothing.

7. I think if we have another Aero Hotah chapter it wil be a prologue, about how all of them are killed by Drakstar. I too can't take him seriously but I feel like he ought to be something dangerous. So if he actually kills Hotah and saves as from one of the most boring POVs I say his badassness will definietly increase.

8. Jon Connington will die. First he has greyscale. Second Arianne is heading to Aegon, no need for two POVs there.

1. To be fair to Dorne the "dragon" is the only real choice they have. They are hated by the Tyrells and thus by extension the Reach. They despise the Lannisters and the Baratheons for their role in the butchering of Elia M. and co. The North even after you exclude their involvement in the rebellion aren't a practical ally. True it might be their undoing but it's not like they have a lot of options.

As far as allying with Aegon even after they are convinced he's fake I think Arianne would consult Doran before that and that he'd decide not her. He might wait to see his how other prospects turn out first especially since all he has to work with are his rebellious daughter and the disrespectful, deadly. unpredictable Sand Snakes.

2. I think some people are reading too much into the whole Elia S. thing. We honestly can't take too much from a sample chapter. So far I generally think she's just there to spice up the Arianne chapters

5. True Dany is a public relations nightmare and I don't see it getting any better any time soon.

6. Like I said on the last thread it could be just a metaphor for Varys and JonCon doing what they need to to get supporters instead of actual fighting.

7. I actually doubt we'll see that match, whatever the outcome. I don't see the need other than for some cool action and think we'll just hear the message about his victory if Darkstar does indeed defeat a Sand Snake trained by Oberyn from childhood, and two very skilled and experienced members of the Kingsgaurd.

I personally think people are letting the Darkstar-mania get to them. It's perfectly reasonable that Darkstar has his own small band of loyal men. For all we know the three sent after hi could die not by his skill but by being overwhelmed by said force.

8. He will die surely. Not sure about the Arianne thing just yet though.

How exactly is that confirmation? Jon C wouldnt be the first character to avoid whoring.

I think he was being a bit flippant but it would seem that JonCon did have romantic feelings for Rhaegar. This sample alone would be flimsy evidence indeed but the JonCon chapters from the previous book seemed to point in that direction. Combined with the sample I wouldn't call it hard evidence but the Westeros Tabloids would be buzzing.

[Budj]

Probably way off base, but in all this 'why send Elia?' discussion I was wondering if Doran sent her to feel out Aegon. Elia sounds like a Lyanna type character and perhaps he is hedging his bets on Aegon's legitimacy being tied to his preference in women. They are of similar age after all...

Considering what we know of Jon's (Snow) preferences in women it wouldn't be a bad tactic (like father like son in that department). I personally think Aegon will end up disliking Elia though. Worst case scenario he is hiding his Joffrey tendencies...best case scenario he just think's she is annoying.

[aFeastForDragons]

"And krakens off the Broken Arm, pulling under crippled galleys," said Valena. "The blood draws them to the surface, our maester claims. There are bodies in the water. A few have washed up on our shores.

More Kraken sightings! The first we here of is Vary's telling us one was sighted off the Fingers.

“A kraken has been seen off the Fingers” He giggled. “Not a Greyjoy, mind you, a true kraken. It attacked an Ibbenese whaler and pulled it under."

Maybe the Horn on Claw Isle for summoning monsters form the deep is being used. At first I taught it was reavers from the Iron Islanders being exaggerated but they are mentioned later by Valena.

Its also cool to see what Aurane Waters has been up to.

[eggs]

In previous chapters there are other hints about his sexual preferences, e.g. Rhaegar referred as his "Silver Prince" or his current "complicity" with Myles Toyne of the Golden Company!

I think he was being a bit flippant but it would seem that JonCon did have romantic feelings for Rhaegar. This sample alone would be flimsy evidence indeed but the JonCon chapters from the previous book seemed to point in that direction. Combined with the sample I wouldn't call it hard evidence but the Westeros Tabloids would be buzzing.

Well I know he's gay, but that little piece of information that Daemon gives to Arianne shouldn't be enough for her to reach that conclusion. She'd probably have the same reaction she had to Jon to a single Ned Stark or Jaime.

[GoldenVale]

Probably way off base, but in all this 'why send Elia?' discussion I was wondering if Doran sent her to feel out Aegon. Elia sounds like a Lyanna type character and perhaps he is hedging his bets on Aegon's legitimacy being tied to his preference in women. They are of similar age after all...

Considering what we know of Jon's (Snow) preferences in women it wouldn't be a bad tactic (like father like son in that department). I personally think Aegon will end up disliking Elia though. Worst case scenario he is hiding his Joffrey tendencies...best case scenario he just think's she is annoying.

I think that main fact is why Doran didn't send Elia off to entice Aegon. Considering they aren't even remotley sure about Aegon yet it'd be a premature move.

Even so "why send Elia" sums it up, The only thing Doran would know about Aegon is his age. While she is closest of the Sand Snakes to his age that's hardly anything to go on. Our first impressions of her is that she's wild, crude, overly proud and most of all a bastard. That alone should be enough for anyone much less Aegon and JonCon to declince. I firmly believe Elia was not sent for marriage deals.

Well I know he's gay, but that little piece of information that Daemon gives to Arianne shouldn't be enough for her to reach that conclusion. She'd probably have the same reaction she had to Jon to a single Ned Stark or Jaime.

I doubt she had came to that conclusion. I think "Jon Icefyre" meant that to us the reader there's definitely no chance he isn't gay.

Arianne probably just thinks that he's a proud, prude.