New Game of Thrones Video Log

[protar]

One, we've already seen that sort of thing (think back to a scene last season). Two, I don't think people watching this show are expecting Westeros to be Disney World.

Personally, I'd rather have the worst of Ramsay's tortures off screen, I think it would be more effective. What you imagine is always worse than what you see.

I'm not remembering any underage sex implied or otherwise in S2. Remind me please.

And yes, it's most effective off-screen, but that also needs to be underscored with some onscreen stuff. That's how it happened in the books and it worked very well for the effect Martin presumably wanted. I see no reason why D+D should constrain themselves by using an underage actress/character, especially with all the other problems related to this particular plot.

[Le Cygne]

I guess we've dispensed with spoiler tagging but I'm going to do it anyway:

Sansa the character is I think 16 on the show now. The gang rape scene last season was quite realistic, the Hound saved her just in time. People love that scene. Sure, because the Hound rescued her. But she's going to get married to Tyrion this season, so that's another. At some point they have to show how it really was back then. And I think Jolene mentioned, by the time this is filmed, Arya will be older.

[boojam]

You can suggest a lot without showing it. I think the British restrictions for under 18 character/actor are in showing sex on screen. There can be kissing with an under 18 character/actor on screen, we've seen that. There was a quote where Martin said they could have kept the ages as they were, with 13 year old Dany marrying Drogo, but if they showed the sex, they had to make Dany 18.

I don't know why people go on and on about the age thing.

As a reader of the books and a viewer of the show the conforming to labor laws about actor's ages has not changed my enjoyment of the show one wit. In fact I didn't even notice it until book readers here brought it up.

It's almost more than 3 years old now , I wish it would got away.

[protar]

I guess we've dispensed with spoiler tagging but I'm going to do it anyway:

Sansa the character is I think 16 on the show now. The gang rape scene last season was quite realistic, the Hound saved her just in time. People love that scene. Sure, because the Hound rescued her. But she's going to get married to Tyrion this season, so that's another. At some point they have to show how it really was back then. And I think Jolene mentioned, by the time this is filmed, Arya will be older.

Well I think Jeyne/Talisa or whoever they're using will be a lot worse than that on screen.

My personal stance on the matter is that if they want flexibility on what they can do with Ramsay it will be better to cast an adult aka Talisa. Along with the problems of introducing Jeyne coming across as an asspull, I think that Talisa is the best option. They might as well do something good with her now she exists.

[Le Cygne]

I think the point is, some of us don't want it to be Talisa, because it won't make sense for the story.

[protar]

I think the point is, some of us don't want it to be Talisa, because it won't make sense for the story.

Explain how it wouldn't make sense for the story.

[Le Cygne]

I already did! I don't want to go back and forth about this until it turns into another endless Talisa thread. Besides, last time you were on the anti-Talisa side. What happened? :)

I hope we see the last of her this season, personally. I don't believe that character could have ever existed in Westeros.

[protar]

I already did! I don't want to go back and forth about this until it turns into another endless Talisa thread. Besides, last time you were on the anti-Talisa side. What happened? :)

I hope we see the last of her this season, personally. I don't believe that character could have ever existed in Westeros.

The stuff about her not giving Ramsay a valid claim to the North? I've already explained that. The people in power are the ones who write the rules and at that point in the story Talisa is the only person with any tenuous link to Robb. It's a flimsy excuse for PR.

And I would like to clarify that I still hate Talisa with all my heart. My stance here is a mixture of resignation, the recognition that they might as well do something useful with her now she's been written in, and of course, catharsis :P

[Le Cygne]

The part about Jon, he doesn't even know Talisa, it takes a lot of the drama away. Jon and Arya missed each other for five books, apart from love for parents, they were the most important people in the world to each other. Just do a search on "little sister" in the books and you'll see what I mean.

And I'm glad you still hate Talisa. :)

[protar]

The part about Jon, he doesn't even know Talisa, it takes a lot of the drama away. Jon and Arya missed each other for five books, apart from love for parents, they were the most important people in the world to each other. Just do a search on "little sister" in the books and you'll see what I mean.

And I'm glad you still hate Talisa. :)

It's a minor sacrifice. Those feelings for Arya aren't going to be coming to a conclusion in either the books or the show at this point, because Jon will not of course be rescuing Arya from Winterfell. So all we're actually losing is Jon's internal feelings which would've been hard to translate on screen. Again, Winterfell being occupied by the Boltons will be enough to drive Jon and the Northman to opposing Ramsay imo.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Talisa

replacing Fake Arya

would be a HORRIBLE idea.

First of all, the entire trek of everyone going to Winterfell for the wedding would be pointless, she's not even a real Stark, she's never even been there, it would make no sense. Secondly, you have a Jon angle previously discusses, Jon makes a bargain for Mance to rescue Arya, why would he even care if Ramsey is marrying some woman he's never met who's from Volantis has no claim to Winterfell. Thirdly, Stannis rallys the Clans because they wanted to rescue "Ned's girl". That was their entire motivation for most of the people in the North that rallies to Stannis for his campaign. Why would any of them care about Talisa? I hope Talisa dies at the RW so we don't have to entertain any more of this ridiculous possibility, it would also shut the the "Blackfish left wit the real Jeyne" theory that I'm not a fan of either.

[Le Cygne]

So all we're actually losing is Jon's internal feelings which would've been hard to translate on screen.

That's not an "all we're losing" thing, like it's not much. That's a lot. It's why we care about the characters, all of these internal feelings. It's why they do the things they do.

It's not hard to translate inner feelings to screen. It happens all the time. There are so many ways to show how a character feels on film, and of course, there's always just saying it to someone.

[YTDN]

Regarding the aging issue- the scenes we're talking about will be in season 5 or six, so two or three years time. By then both Maisie Williams and Sophie Turner will be 18 or over, and I suspect they'll increase the time frame to have the characters age with the actress' to an extent, so the Fake Arya/Jeyne Poole will be a 16-17 year old masquerading as a 14-15 year old. In that case it wouldn't be too hard for them to find an over-18 actress with a baby face willing to do sex scenes, and it wouldn't require too much suspension of disbelief.

[Jolene Brown]

Regarding the aging issue- the scenes we're talking about will be in season 5 or six, so two or three years time. By then both Maisie Williams and Sophie Turner will be 18 or over, and I suspect they'll increase the time frame to have the characters age with the actress' to an extent, so the Fake Arya/Jeyne Poole will be a 16-17 year old masquerading as a 14-15 year old. In that case it wouldn't be too hard for them to find an over-18 actress with a baby face willing to do sex scenes, and it wouldn't require too much suspension of disbelief.

Ha ha. Jinx. I was just catching up to the thread preparing to post that when I came to your post.

Also, what I mentioned above in terms of introducing the "Jeyne" character was literally two scenes. That's not "tons of screen time in season 4." It would take very little time at all.

[Le Cygne]

Case in point on the inner feelings thing. We get no Sandor POV in this or any other book. But we hear this throughout ASOS:

“Seven hells. The little sister.”

...

“This one’s own sister”

...

“I watched them beat your sister”

...

“I never beat your sister”

...

“Or maybe a sister? Sansa. That’s it, isn’t it? The wolf bitch wants to kill the pretty bird.”

...

“I saved your sister’s life too”

...

“Your sister sang me a sweet little song.”

...

“You ought to sing me a pretty little song, the way your sister did.”

...

“I thought your sister was the one with a head full of songs”

...

“What wife?”... The Hound sat on the bench closest to the door. His mouth twitched, but only the burned side. "She ought to dip him in wildfire and cook him. Or tickle him till the moon turns black." He raised his wine cup and drained it straightaway... The Hound poured a cup of wine for Arya and another for himself, and drank it down while staring at the hearthfire. "The little bird flew away, did she?"... “A proper little lady. Not like her bloody sister.”

...

He made a queer sound, and it took her a moment to realize he was sobbing. “And the little bird, your pretty sister, I stood there in my white cloak and let them beat her.”

So you know how he's feeling. That came up in a search on little sister in Arya's chapters. Next for the Jon ones, there are more books...

[Jolene Brown]

Ugh, shipping hard.

[YTDN]

Ha ha. Jinx. I was just catching up to the thread preparing to post that when I came to your post.

Also, what I mentioned above in terms of introducing the "Jeyne" character was literally two scenes. That's not "tons of screen time in season 4." It would take very little time at all.

Yeah, I mean in the books the introduction only amounted to a coupl of scenes- Tywin telling Tyrion that Arya is alive in the same way that Renly was alive (as in they got someone to dress up as them), Jaime seeing off the Fake Arya, who he identifies as not the real Arya, and Cersei offhandedly mentioning that Littlefinger dressed up 'some steward's whelp'. They wouldn't need much more than that.

[protar]

Well neither route is perfect I'll admit. I mean especially if Jeyne still has a role to play in TWOW seeing as

She's still posing as fake arya in the sample chapter

then I guess they'll have to have her. And also if Jeyne Westerling ends up having an other role. But unless those things happen I think Talisa would be for the best. I just don't get how one or two scenes introducing Jeyne and saying, "oh she was buddies with the Starks" would prevent her introduction from seeming like a cop-out.

[Le Cygne]

And now the Jon Snow and Arya edition:

Jon messed up her hair. “I will miss you, little sister.”

...

She wanted Jon to muss up her hair and call her “little sister” and finish her sentences with her.

...

“Most nights it’s my father, but sometimes it’s Robb instead, or my little sister Arya, or my uncle.”

...

She would have given anything if Jon had been here to call her “little sister” and muss her hair.

...

She wished somehow they could come to the Wall before Winterfell, so Jon might muss up her hair and call her “little sister.”

...

Jon had never met anyone so stubborn, except maybe for his little sister Arya.

...

He used to muss my hair and call me ‘little sister.’

...

She wondered if he would still call her “little sister.”

...

“The pointy end.” Jon had told his little sister something like that once, he remembered.

...

He’ll call me “little sister” and muss my hair.

...

Needle was Jon Snow’s smile. He used to mess my hair and call me “little sister,” she remembered, and suddenly there were tears in her eyes.

...

In another place, his little sister lifted her head to sing to the moon, and a hundred small grey cousins broke off their hunt to sing with her.

...

“He’s to marry Arya Stark. My little sister.” Jon could almost see her in that moment, long-faced and gawky, all knobby knees and sharp elbows, with her dirty face and tangled hair.

...

The thought came unbidden, seizing him with iron teeth, but this was not a woman he cared to be indebted to, not even for his little sister.

...

“You wanted a way to save your little sister and still hold fast to the honor that means so much to you, to the vows you swore before your wooden god.”

...

And Arya too, my little sister, wherever she might be. I pray you, let Mance find her and bring her safe to me.

...

“That’s good.” Jon felt fifteen years old again. Little sister. He rose and donned his cloak.

...

The girl smiled in a way that reminded Jon so much of his little sister that it almost broke his heart.

This was just a search on little sister, so there's more. It's breaking my heart just to read it again...

[Jolene Brown]

Awwwwwwwwww. I can't believe people SHIP those two. It is so wrong. WRONG WRONG WRONG.

:) Says the Sansa/Hound shipper. But whatever.