1234567 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I suppose I will be the Bronn for Tyrion. Tyrion is a genius and has proven himself worthy of my respect over the past five books. Sansa has done nothing but be an idiot throughout all the books sitting there in kings landing dreaming of ser loras. May I suggest the Sansa Re-read Threads here: And the Tyrion Re-read Threads here: Firstly it has to be said that on a first read Tyrion appears as a hands down favourite along with Arya. GRRM goes out of his way to paint them sympathetically and everything they says or think in their chapters is taken at face value and as the gospel truth. Tyrion is initially very likeable. He's funny and appears to be a "genius". He is also incredibly sympathetic. He's nice to Jon, builds Bran a saddle, gets the Mountain Clans on side etc. However on a re-read, you begin to see that although funny, he goes out of his way to antagonise people when he really doesn't have to. He can be a bit of a bully. The only difference is we don't like the people he bullies so that makes it seem okay. He breaks Marillion's fingers over a jest which among other examples shows that despite what he told Jon about using your weaknesses as armour, he himself never does that and is quick to retaliate against perceived threats. While he appears to be a player in ACOK a re-read shows that LF and Varys ran rings round him and rather than make use of the Lannister lackey Pycelle, he actively attacked and antagonised him. It goes on and on. He often takes no responsibility for his failing, by immediately assuming that his dwarfism is the problem rather than using some introspection into his own actions.Sansa on the other hand is more difficult for many people to like: she is not the "sassy go getting down with the people tomboy action girl" that we have come to expect from fantasy novels. She is in fact a very realistic portrayal of a pre-teen. She is naive and believes in handsome knights etc. given that her world is one where knights do exist, this is no different than modern girls plastering their walls with posters of actors (I believe I may have nearly wall papered my entire bedroom with pictures of Christian Slater when I was 12). Her dreams are no different or any different to many peoples. She is aware of her social status, which may make her appear big headed, but then she is going to be Queen of all 7 Kingdoms. I think that would have gone to my head at 11 as well. Kids show off, be it getting a better bike or going to Disney World or having the newest toy etc. however this is quickly changed once her father is killed. She is gulable to an extent and takes people at face value which is a mistake. She is however a very compassionate character and one of the kindest in the series. She is not however "badass" and this seems to be a major crime in fandom. She has made mistakes (many due to her age and inexperience of court life) but she is learning and her character development is some of the best in the series. She has bided her time waiting for the escape plan to come to fruition and stopped dreaming of perfect princes in ASOS. What is interesting is that Sansa is lambasted for showing attraction to handsome men. Somehow this is seen as shallow, while on the other hand we have Tyrion who makes a fool of himself over Shae and only wants stunningly perfect looking women and yet that is seen as perfectly right and not at all shallow. Tyrion's arc has taken an interesting course in ADWD and in many ways he is struggling to be a good man, whilst also trying to be like his father, which makes him a fascinating character. He is not however a good man. Please see the re-reads for more I depth analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Well, that's okay. It just points out you're a pretty average, mildly sexist guy. It's okay for Tyrion to treat women like shit and to be a rapist, but a young eleven year old girl who has made some mistakes, learned from them and developed as a character to NOT die is just asking waaaay too much! Right?Yep, he should be happy the SanSans aren't here to tear him to shreds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I honestly don't see any way Stannis survives the series. The way I see it, he either dies heroically, or he lets his hunger for the crown consume him entirely.I disagree. Once the boltons are handled he will be in a very good position. The lannisters are spent and the tyrells are engaged on multiple fronts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I disagree. Once the boltons are handled he will be in a very good position. The lannisters are spent and the tyrells are engaged on multiple fronts.But i don't know how he'll survive the Others though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 But i don't know how he'll survive the Others though...Very easily, the same way sam did. With obsidian from dragonstone. Rolland storm will deliver it to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Éadaoin Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Yep, he should be happy the SanSans aren't here to tear him to shreds...I think some Sansa Stans are present. :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyWind BreaksWind Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Florina, very valid points. Valid indeed. I can see why some people would be put off by Tyrion but frankly most of the things you stated I just can't hate on him for. And I am terrified for the pandoras box I am about to open here, but I also liked Tywin...Dun dun dun. And he is sooooo obviously like Tywin and I love it. As for the prostitute that he "raped" I shall choose to not dive into that on this day. And although he killed Tywin and it is indeed kinslaying, I saw it coming from a long way off so I wasn't that upset about it, even though I was fond of Tywin. And lets be honest...the Septa wanted him to look.Now Mya, I just don't think I will ever agree with the idea that I should respect and like Sansa because she has "developed." Her character bores me to death, her thoughts make me want to skip her chapters and her words make it even worse. Sansa and Dany are similarly foolish to me, But I will rep Dany all day every day because Dany is my girl. And Dany had a bad situation as well but instead of playing dead until a fool saved her she sprung into action and became a badass woman with dragons. And I suspect everyone hates Dany on here too....but like Tyrion....Dany REPRESENT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The only way I can truly understand your opinion on Sansa and others similar opinions is you just can not relate to a young femaleHai, how ya doin'? You know, i was an 11 year old girl once. No really, i was. And to be honest, my mind didnt venture to where Sansa's went. So no, i cant really relate to her. I relate more to Arya because her personality is almost a mirror image of my own when i was an ankle biter. You can relate to Sansa? Fantastic! At least people can. But blanket statements like that are bound to get people's knickers in a knot. :) Has Sansa changed? Yes she has. But i still cant quite relate to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 If anything happens to Stannis I will nerdrage all over the fucking place.And i will nerdrage with you...I shall join you in the nerd rage and together we shall build a shrine the like of which the world has never seen, all to the glory of Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 LOL, that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Florina, very valid points. Valid indeed. I can see why some people would be put off by Tyrion but frankly most of the things you stated I just can't hate on him for. And I am terrified for the pandoras box I am about to open here, but I also liked Tywin...Dun dun dun. And he is sooooo obviously like Tywin and I love it. As for the prostitute that he "raped" I shall choose to not dive into that on this day. And although he killed Tywin and it is indeed kinslaying, I saw it coming from a long way off so I wasn't that upset about it, even though I was fond of Tywin.And lets be honest...the Septa wanted him to look.Now Mya, I just don't think I will ever agree with the idea that I should respect and like Sansa because she has "developed." Her character bores me to death, her thoughts make me want to skip her chapters and her words make it even worse. Sansa and Dany are similarly foolish to me, But I will rep Dany all day every day because Dany is my girl. And Dany had a bad situation as well but instead of playing dead until a fool saved her she sprung into action and became a badass woman with dragons. And I suspect everyone hates Dany on here too....but like Tyrion....Dany REPRESENT!You are a summer child, perhaps with more experience you will change your ways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I shall join you in the nerd rage and together we shall build a shrine the like of which the world has never seen, all to the glory of Stannis.Stannis! :commie: :commie: :commie:Rapsie you can help me right the post that was promised if stannis dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I think some Sansa Stans are present. :cool4:Yep, you guys have arrived... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Stannis! :commie: :commie: :commie:Rapsie you can help me right the post that was promised if stannis dies.What about me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I don't get how someone can sit there and just say Sansa is an idiot. She's not a favorite character of mine, but she's a very complex character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 What about me?Your not old enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I don't get how someone can sit there and just say Sansa is an idiot. She's not a favorite character of mine, but she's a very complex character.Human ignorance never suprises me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Your not old enough.Oh come on Ero! Why must you do this to me?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Hai, how ya doin'?You know, i was an 11 year old girl once. No really, i was. And to be honest, my mind didnt venture to where Sansa's went. So no, i cant really relate to her. I relate more to Arya because her personality is almost a mirror image of my own when i was an ankle biter.You can relate to Sansa? Fantastic! At least people can. But blanket statements like that are bound to get people's knickers in a knot. :)Has Sansa changed? Yes she has. But i still cant quite relate to her.I was an eleven year old girl once too. I didn't want a prince charming and I didn't want to be Queen of England but I was very fanciful, I did dream of finding some faerie kingdom one day and meeting elves and piskies and I had hoped for a life that was all nice and perfect and stress-free and not a life as shitty as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I don't get how someone can sit there and just say Sansa is an idiot. She's not a favorite character of mine, but she's a very complex character.She is complex. Theres a lot of things going on in Sansa's mind. And not all of it is rainbows and puppies. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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