NFL 2012 Superbowl Prelude: Gods Must Be Strong

[Xray the Enforcer]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but considering our conviction that Chip Kelly looks like a man who could eat wings for 6 hours straight, I thought that the kicker to this interview was deeply appropriate.

When asked about what it would be like for the Eagles to win the SuperBowl, Kelly said "It would be like 1,000 Wing Bowls." :lol:

Well, the man clearly knows his wings.

[Kalbear]

Yeah, a lot of Philly fans I've talked to who weren't used to Kelly's style love him to death now. He's a funny sarcastic guy.

One thing that'll take people off guard is his depth of knowledge; at one point in an interview leading up to USC he mentioned how many 5 star recruits they had and what an advantage that was. Kiffin responded douchily as always, saying that he didn't have the time to memorize people (he couldn't remember lamichael James) because he was busy coaching. Kelly responded naming off every single recruit and then saying that it didn't take him any time at all - and that knowing who you're facing was a pretty important part of coaching.

[awesome possum]

Tim Brown sounds like a very bitter man. I could give a little credence to Robbins being driven AWOL by a last-minute game change (if Brown is correct the change happened Friday and Robbins - who was off his depression meds - went AWOL the next day).

But I would say not changing the terminology of the offensive play-calling from when Gruden ran it was the greatest factor in that loss. Both Sapp and Derrick Brooks have said Gruden taught them the terminology so that they knew what Gannon was calling as he called it.

[Independent George]

Because every three pages or so, we need to bring the discussion back to Jay Cutler:

Jay Cutler Spends Entire Visit With Sick Child Complaining About Offensive Line

Brilliant!

[Fragile Bird]

Is it necessary to be so cruel? :lol:

[Jaxom 1974]

Huh. It's an unkindness. I am unkind to Ravens?

Bah. There goes the Ray Lewis/Murder of Ravens jokes right out the window...

[Maithanet]

Bah. There goes the Ray Lewis/Murder of Ravens jokes right out the window...

As Ray Lewis always says, better an unkindess than a murder.

[Jaime L]

I have to admit that I did not recall that Ed Reed was not part of the last Ravens team to win it all.

ETA: Which I guess means that we've got Randy Moss and Ed Reed both going for their first ring.

Yeah IIRC Ed Reed came in 2003 and reinvograted a defense that was still good but no longer at the all-universe level they were in 2000. I think that's the most amazing thing about the Ray Lewis saga is how there's almost like 3 distinct acts to this Ravens defense which has been able to climb back to the pinnacle of the sport every 3-4 years or so with new talent.

There was the original crew from like 1996-2002 - Guys like Boulware, McCrary, Siragusa, Starks etc.

Then the second wave talent infusion 2003-2005 - Reed, Suggs

Then the third wave 2006-Present - Ngata, Webb

They've also had a bunch of DCs over that span. Marvin Lewis, Mike Nolan, Rex Ryan, Chuck Pagano. Hell as I think about it I don't even know the DC this year. I'm sure he'll be a HC sooner or later.

But Ray Lewis has been the one constant. I'm no Ravens or Ray Lewis fan (and I'm more than sick of that dance) but that remains pretty amazing. That's 16 years of pretty sustained excellence all revolving around one constant in the middle. So yeah, LT or Ray Lewis...one of those guys is the greatest LB of all time. No-one else really compares.

[James Arryn]

That's cool. I think you're seriously overestimating the notion that Alex Smith could've been Aaron Rodgers if drafted by the Packers. I've seen enough unique gifts in Rodgers such that I'm not positive anyone else could've become what Aaron Rodgers is now.

As for physical gifts, I agree Alex Smith had equivalent mobility to Aaron Rodgers but the rest is a huge overstatement. Check out an example scouting report from Alex Smith coming out. Does this sound like an equivalent arm talent? How about this?

Meanwhile every scouting report on Rodgers, even back then mentioned his live arm and quick release.

Listen, I get the tendency to think about Alex Smith in "what could've been" terms. I remember thinking quite clearly at the time that he was the better pick for his intangibles, mobility and all those wins at Utah. But I, like the 49ers, underestimated what Aaron Rodgers was or would become which actually is a running theme in his football career. And I think I'm seeing a lot of historical revisionism in how you're choosing to remember Alex Smith.

Eh, 3 points.

1) I don't think I am saying the situations would be exact reversals, I am saying it's hard to tell where the line wold be. I did say I doubted Smith would have been as good as Rogers is.

2) That said, Rodgers really developed his arm strength since coming into the legue. A lot of that comes down to technique. This year, after all the surgeries, Smith's arm got 'stronger' simply because, for the first time, he spent part of his offseason working on technique rather than absorbing an entirely new play book.

Check the Rodgers scouting report in your first Smith link; sounds much the same. Both scouting reports cite the QB as having 'zip' on their passes, but both suggest that e QB is not a deep threat guy at this point. Their arms were very comparable. IMO Rodgers was somewhat stronger at the time, but not a lot, and he really developed his strength over the years...much like Brady did...by refining his footwork and technique. Smith only ever had the time to concentrate on that this year, and it did show improvement. If he had had that time before the injuries and also the benefit of the same system from Day One, we are probably seeing a much stronger arm throwing with more regular authority.

3) I also think e 'new offence every year' thing has been said so often people have stopped taking into account what that men's to a QB. Really, Rodgers and Smith have been at entirely different poles. I am much more confident saying Rodgers would be a lot more like Smith has been if he had been in his shoes than I am saying the reverse. I don't think AR is anywhere near the QB he is if his career path had gone the same way Smith's did. Maybe Smith doesn't become Godgers the other way....dunno, probably not...but I am almost dead sure he also doesn't if he gets 6 OCs in 6 years, no OL, no WRs and a slew of injuries.

You mentioned how AR withstood pressure when he got it, but that kinda misses my point. Smith withstood a lot of pressure too...he just did it under different circumstances, from the word go, while trying to run an offence he was always just learning.

[Jaxom 1974]

As Ray Lewis always says, better an unkindess than a murder.

Anyone else hear a rimshot...?

[James Arryn]

Anyone else hear a rimshot...?

Well, I heard a shot...

[Maithanet]

Tough crowd

[James Arryn]

Tough crowd

We are talking about Ray Lewis, here. If we were talking about RGIII, we'd ...*ducks*

[James Arryn]

Anyways, meant to reiterate what..I think mexal said about Russell Wilson on NFL tv. He looked like a duck in water...really impressive. Already more articulate and less forced than many veterans who made the move towards the end of their career; he could do the job tomorrow.

[Independent George]

Well, I heard a shot...

Is Marvin Harrison around?

But Ray Lewis has been the one constant. I'm no Ravens or Ray Lewis fan (and I'm more than sick of that dance) but that remains pretty amazing. That's 16 years of pretty sustained excellence all revolving around one constant in the middle. So yeah, LT or Ray Lewis...one of those guys is the greatest LB of all time. No-one else really compares.

Ozzie Newsome might have had something to do with it, too.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

Well, I heard a shot...

He's hanging out with Marvin Harrison now?

[Jaime L]

3) I also think e 'new offence every year' thing has been said so often people have stopped taking into account what that men's to a QB. Really, Rodgers and Smith have been at entirely different poles. I am much more confident saying Rodgers would be a lot more like Smith has been if he had been in his shoes than I am saying the reverse. I don't think AR is anywhere near the QB he is if his career path had gone the same way Smith's did. Maybe Smith doesn't become Godgers the other way....dunno, probably not...but I am almost dead sure he also doesn't if he gets 6 OCs in 6 years, no OL, no WRs and a slew of injuries.

Y'know it's a bit of a chicken and the egg issue in that if a QB is playing well or at least showing promise, there tends not to be change in the offensive coordinator. As a Redskins fan, I remember a similar explanation being given for why Jason Campbell wasn't further along. And it was 100% true that he had had a different OC for like 8 straight years going back to his Auburn days. And to a degree, I agree with you that that impedes any young QB's development. I was a big fan of Campbell as a prospect (and just as a man) and I really wanted him to be successful so at the time I was completely on board with the notion that his development was irrevocably stunted due to that.

I now tend to think that was just excuse making for a guy who at his core was just average. That, yes, it is a factor, but that if there was greatness within him he'd either be able to overcome it or would never have had to, because the promise he'd shown would make the team far more reluctant to switch offensive systems considering their investment at QB. What we're debating here is pretty much nature vs. nurture for NFL QBs (which is why I find it interesting) and while I acknowledge that nurture matters, I think nature will hold the day almost every time. The great QBs are defined by the how they overcome the adversity they're up against. Like Andrew Luck this year. Everyone else we end up making excuses for why they didn't get there.

That line from The Social Network keeps coming up when I think of these guys: "If you guys were the inventors of Facebook, you'd have invented Facebook." It's not completely fair, but I think that for the most part if a guy like Alex Smith had it in him to become a great QB, he would've been a great QB.

(Now watch him turn into one whereever he ends up.)

[James Arryn]

Y'know it's a bit of a chicken and the egg issue in that if a QB is playing well or at least showing promise, there tends not to be change in the offensive coordinator. As a Redskins fan, I remember a similar explanation being given for why Jason Campbell wasn't further along. And it was 100% true that he had had a different OC for like 8 straight years going back to his Auburn days. And to a degree, I agree with you that that impedes any young QB's development. I was a big fan of Campbell as a prospect (and just as a man) and I really wanted him to be successful so at the time I was completely on board with the notion that his development was irrevocably stunted due to that.

I now tend to think that was just excuse making for a guy who at his core was just average. That, yes, it is a factor, but that if there was greatness within him he'd either be able to overcome it or would never have had to, because the promise he'd shown would make the team far more reluctant to switch offensive systems considering their investment at QB. What we're debating here is pretty much nature vs. nurture for NFL QBs (which is why I find it interesting) and while I acknowledge that nurture matters, I think nature will hold the day almost every time. The great QBs are defined by the how they overcome the adversity they're up against. Like Andrew Luck this year. Everyone else we end up making excuses for why they didn't get there.

That line from The Social Network keeps coming up when I think of these guys: "If you guys were the inventors of Facebook, you'd have invented Facebook." It's not completely fair, but I think that for the most part if a guy like Alex Smith had it in him to become a great QB, he would've been a great QB.

(Now watch him turn into one whereever he ends up.)

lol, I getcha. on the other hand, first picks tend to go to dysfunctional organizations...a symptom of which is often overturn, irrespective of player merit.

But as an example of other causes, Norv Turner was one OC, loved Smith, saw some progress, and left to take a HC job. At which point Smith was set on rest again.

[Independent George]

I look at it this way: entropy usually wins. In other words, you are far more likely to screw up a potentially productive QB than you are to mold an unproven prospect into a productive QB.

Would Joe Montana have been great without Bill Walsh? Probably not; when he was drafted, it was still all about arm strength. Steve Young was terrible in Tampa, and it took two years under Walsh to become the HoF QB we're now familiar with. How good could Randall Cunningham have been if he'd been coached by anyone besides Buddy Ryan? Would anyone have ever heard of Kurt Warner if Trent Green didn't tear his ACL? What could Doug Flutie have done if he were drafted in 2012?

Great QBs don't develop in isolation, and I've no doubt that there are tons of potentially great passers who didn't make it for whatever reason. I think we tend to underrate the role of luck in evaluating players.

[Sivin]

Pep Hamilton hired as new Colts OC.

This is Luck's former Stanford OC, and I love the hire. I was devestated when Arians left (knew he had to go, but still), but this is a good hire. And a West-Coast offense will be good for Reggie Wayne in his last year or two, the man is probably the best route-runner and possession reciever in the game today. I hope that they can bring a little QB movement to the system, though, it's one thing that I wanted to see more of last year. Luck is very good at throwing on the run, and it protects him from that O-line. A final wish from me is that they keep going deep. Luck throws a nice ball, and I don't want to see defenses get comfortable playing single-high against him.