Bear Island Bruiser Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 If R+L=J is true how will it help develop the plot? Is it possible to prove that Jon is Targ, and that he is a legitimate child when there is no paternity test? People will think that he is a next imposter.Come on Jon is clearly not a Targ. His hand got burnt and we all know Targ's are fire proof....Sorry wanted to be the first on the page to throw this old one up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Procrastination Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Come on Jon is clearly not a Targ. His hand got burnt and we all know Targ's are fire proof....And he doesn´t have silver-gold hair and lila eyes :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 What does iirc mean? I´ve seen that abreviation a couple of times, but I couldn´t figure out what it means.If I Recall Correctly.I copied and pasted your previous post, it is on page 2, because I don't check the thread hourly. As for timeline, I start at Harrenhal Tourney. Zero is when I estimate Ashara and Elia beginning their pregnancies. It seems pretty obvious to me that Lyanna and Rhaegar don't get together until after Aegon's birth, so at least 9 months after Harrenhal. Brandon gets notified ricky-ticky and goes hell bent for King's Landing, then Rickard is summoned (from Winterfell?) and they are roasted and strangled at say 11+ months*. Then good king Aerys asks for Ned's and Robert's heads, and they begin their plot. They can't get their armies going with less than a months delay. We know that Jon Arryn had to fight some of his loyalist bannermen, too. Storm's End is besieged for nearly a year, but after Robert has left with his army. Ned and Catelyn, Jon and Lysa are married in Riverrun, and Ned marches off to war afterwards. Catelyn is pregnant with Robb and delivers shortly before going to Winterfell. She arrives with Jon present, and he is younger than Robb, else Catelyn does not have a reason to grumble about Ned's (supposed) infidelity. Aegon was 12 months, and Rhaenys was 2-3 when King's Landing fell. *Harrenhal Tourney was held in the year of the false spring. Obviously we have some number of winter months following, but if it is a full year things get stretched a bit to make ages line up. So, it certainly looks like from Harrenhal to the sack is 21 months, but to be fair we can say 24 +/- 3 months. This depends on the exact date that Elia started her pregnancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roza Ahai Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Come on Jon is clearly not a Targ. His hand got burnt and we all know Targ's are fire proof....Sorry wanted to be the first on the page to throw this old one up....Ha-ha. He is half Targ. Only one half of his body is fire proof, which one I dont' remember, either top or bottom. Wait. Maybe right or left. Another half is cold resistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Procrastination Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 If I Recall Correctly.ThanksI copied and pasted your previous post, it is on page 2, because I don't check the thread hourly.Me neither :).I wasn´t critizising you, you did well. It was just some sort of a general idea for a project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I wasn´t critizising you, you did well. It was just some sort of a general idea for a project.If we could twist the moderator's arm when the next thread is opened to quote that in the new thread. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Procrastination Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 If we could twist the moderator's arm when the next thread is opened to quote that in the new thread. ;)??? I am confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erudain Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Lol- Can I just share that I "came up with" R +L=J on my own after my second re-read and couldn't get any of my friends to agree. So I did a search online and found some incarnation of this thread. All my pride in "my" discovery evaporated instantly :blushing: But I did find lots of interesting new evidence to bring back to my friends :smug:I'm a relative noob at posting but a longtime lurker, and I think I'll always keep the pulse of the R + L=J debate. Glad it always comes back :)Hey at least you did find it on your own....I didn't even pay attention to any of the clues and actually never cared....until I came here for the first time, read the theory and it's arguments.....first I was :eek: ...then I went to do a re- :read:......and then I was :bang: :bang: "how could I be so stupid!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 ??? I am confused.Dr Pepper's summary that you and I have quoted in on the last two threads. It would be nice for the openning post (at least the second post) on a new (R+L=J) thread would be that summary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Procrastination Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Dr Pepper's summary that you and I have quoted in on the last two threads. It would be nice for the openning post (at least the second post) on a new (R+L=J) thread would be that summary.Okay got it.Maybe we could get the mods into doing it at every knew R+L=J thread.Or we could just make some sort of agreement among us (meaning all the guys who often visit the R+L=J thread) that one of us who´s online when the mods open the new thread makes the opening post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Okay got it.Maybe we could get the mods into doing it at every knew R+L=J thread.Or we could just make some sort of agreement among us (meaning all the guys who often visit the R+L=J thread) that one of us who´s online when the mods open the new thread makes the opening post.I think that getting mods engaged might be the most efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I think that getting mods engaged might be the most efficient.I think that the threads that they lock, and create a new thread for should have a summary post instead of a "go at it". Of course not all threads would be eligible, such as the heresy thread which meanders all over that half acre. It would be nice, if we have a summary, such as the one that Dr Pepper wrote up and has been posted to the last three threads, that the mod knows to pull it into the new thread. However, it may not be possible to get all of the mods to cooperate, so if it isn't in the first post the first of the regulars should go back and copy it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Heir of Bear Island Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I have a question to pose. Kind of TV Show, but relevant to this post. Does anybody think it would spoil anything to reveal the Theory of R+L=J to people who have only watched the first two seasons of the show and haven't read any of the books? Most of the proof is given in the first two books so I don't think its so terrible. Plus as much evidence as there is, it is only a theory.BTW, I do keep hammering them to read the damn books! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I have a question to pose. Kind of TV Show, but relevant to this post. Does anybody think it would spoil anything to reveal the Theory of R+L=J to people who have only watched the first two seasons of the show and haven't read any of the books? Most of the proof is given in the first two books so I don't think its so terrible. Plus as much evidence as there is, it is only a theory.BTW, I do keep hammering them to read the damn books!For screenplay only people I try to keep it to logical questions. Do they really think honorable Ned would have a bastard child, after being married? Of course they won't be able to tell that Arya, Jon and Ned have the traditional Stark look. Why was Ned so hesitant at naming Wylla? Why doesn't Ned call Jon his son? Why doesn't Ned want to discuss Jon's mother with Jon? There is a lot of unsaid things that come across in the screenplay, but honestly they can be easily missed. I do tell them that they are missing out on more than half the story if they don't read the books. The books are a very interesting read, even on reread, which has been the fault of many books that I read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erudain Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I guess it depends mostly on how will your friends take the spoiler......I. E. got a friend that only watches the show and every time I try to throw a spoiler he covers his ears and stats "yada yada I can't hear you"....on the other side, his gf also watches the show and keeps asking me for spoilers/confirmations every time she gets some crazy theory (guess it's easier asking someone else than to sit and read the damn books ¬_¬) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Heir of Bear Island Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 For screenplay only people I try to keep it to logical questions. Do they really think honorable Ned would have a bastard child, after being married? Of course they won't be able to tell that Arya, Jon and Ned have the traditional Stark look. Why was Ned so hesitant at naming Wylla? Why doesn't Ned call Jon his son? Why doesn't Ned want to discuss Jon's mother with Jon? There is a lot of unsaid things that come across in the screenplay, but honestly they can be easily missed. I do tell them that they are missing out on more than half the story if they don't read the books. The books are a very interesting read, even on reread, which has been the fault of many books that I read.I like your style.. That is sort of what I've been doing. I hate when they try and guess things like " Does Dany fly to Westeros and kill the Whitwalkers with her Dragons." I just laugh at those questions.I agree you lose a lot not reading the books. In my opinion you don't get enough with just one read.I guess it depends mostly on how will your friends take the spoiler......I. E. got a friend that only watches the show and every time I try to throw a spoiler he covers his ears and stats "yada yada I can't hear you"....on the other side, his gf also watches the show and keeps asking me for spoilers/confirmations every time she gets some crazy theory (guess it's easier asking someone else than to sit and read the damn books ¬_¬)I think the size of the books just scare people who aren't avid readers. I understand not wanting to be spoiled, ttu I can't understand the other side though. I love Dexter and like True Blood, but never tried to spoil myself. If I was that interested I'd read the books! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I have a question to pose. Kind of TV Show, but relevant to this post. Does anybody think it would spoil anything to reveal the Theory of R+L=J to people who have only watched the first two seasons of the show and haven't read any of the books? Most of the proof is given in the first two books so I don't think its so terrible. Plus as much evidence as there is, it is only a theory.BTW, I do keep hammering them to read the damn books!When people I know want book spoilers, I offer a few but also gently remind them of Dexter and True Blood, two shows that have diverged completely from the books they are adapted from. I think it's reasonable to assume that Game of Thrones will continue to diverge from the book series. Dexter and the Southern Vampire Mysteries have a consistent publishing schedule, A Song of Ice and Fire does not. It's very possible that the show will catch up to the books and it wouldn't be right for the show to spoil readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFDanny Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 For those interested:“Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread” (thread one)“Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread” (thread two)“The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon thread (Part III)” (thread three)“The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon thread (Part IV)” (thread four)“The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread (Part V)” (thread five)“The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread (Part VI)” (thread six)“The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Thread Part VII” (thread seven)“The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon thread, Part VIII” (thread eight)“The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon thread, Part IX” (thread nine)“The Rhaegar + Lyanna =Jon Thread, Part X”(thread ten)“The R+L=J thread, part XI” (thread eleven)“The R+L=J thread, part XII” (thread twelve)“R+L=J Part XXIII” (thread thirteen)“R+L=J Part XXIV” (thread fourteen)“R+L=J XXV” (thread fifteen) “R+L=J v.16” (thread sixteen)“R+L=J v.17” (thread seventeen)“R+L=J v.18” (thread eighteen)“R+L=J v.19” (thread nineteen)“R+L=J v.20” (thread twenty)“R+L=J v.21” (thread twenty-one)“R+L=J v.22” (thread twenty-two)“R+L=J v.22a” (thread 22a)“R+L=J v.23” (thread twenty-three)“R+L=J v.24” (thread twenty-four)“R+L=J v.25” (thread twenty-five)“R+L=J v.26” (thread twenty-six)“R+L=J v.27” (thread twenty-seven)“R+L=J v.28” (thread twenty-eight)“R+L=J v.29” (thread twenty-nine)“R+L=J v.30” (thread thirty)“R+L=J v.31” (thread thirty-one)“R+L=J v.32” (thread thirty-two)“R+L=J #33” (thread thirty-three)“R+L=J v.34” (thread thirty-four)“R+L=J v.35” (thread thirty-five) “R+L=J v.36” (thread thirty-six)“R+L=J v.37” (thread thirty-seven)“R+L=J v.38” (thread thirty-eight)“R+L=J v.39” (thread thirty-nine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 For those interested:. . .Thank you. That is the best list I have seen to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 If I Recall Correctly.I copied and pasted your previous post, it is on page 2, because I don't check the thread hourly. As for timeline, I start at Harrenhal Tourney. Zero is when I estimate Ashara and Elia beginning their pregnancies. It seems pretty obvious to me that Lyanna and Rhaegar don't get together until after Aegon's birth, so at least 9 months after Harrenhal. Brandon gets notified ricky-ticky and goes hell bent for King's Landing, then Rickard is summoned (from Winterfell?) and they are roasted and strangled at say 11+ months*. Then good king Aerys asks for Ned's and Robert's heads, and they begin their plot. They can't get their armies going with less than a months delay. We know that Jon Arryn had to fight some of his loyalist bannermen, too. Storm's End is besieged for nearly a year, but after Robert has left with his army. Ned and Catelyn, Jon and Lysa are married in Riverrun, and Ned marches off to war afterwards. Catelyn is pregnant with Robb and delivers shortly before going to Winterfell. She arrives with Jon present, and he is younger than Robb, else Catelyn does not have a reason to grumble about Ned's (supposed) infidelity. Aegon was 12 months, and Rhaenys was 2-3 when King's Landing fell. *Harrenhal Tourney was held in the year of the false spring. Obviously we have some number of winter months following, but if it is a full year things get stretched a bit to make ages line up. So, it certainly looks like from Harrenhal to the sack is 21 months, but to be fair we can say 24 +/- 3 months. This depends on the exact date that Elia started her pregnancy.Nice number crunching, not enough of that goes on around here. That being said, Elia could have been a month or two pregnant when she went to Harrenhal, it did not have to have happened after. Also, this is assuming that Ashara got pregnant at the same time as Elia? Why that assumption? (I am not trying to be difficult, I am curious as to the rationale.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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