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Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time


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With out Jordan there would probably be no Williams

Except for the fact that The Dragonbone Chair was published two years before The Eye of the World ;) GRRM has said that it was Williams, not Jordan, who actually inspired him to write an epic fantasy series that was aimed at a proper mature audience and not just kids.

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But Jordan had the sales. Its not as if there wasn't intelligent fare before the 90s. The Book of the New Sun and the Thomas Covenant Chronicles being major examples but Jordan did sell a lot more books than any of them. Williams did inspire GRRM but Jordan inspired the publishers. :P

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True, and of course Feist had his long-running series of series beginning 1982, Eddings' series were longer than trilogies right from the off etc.

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The only thing you need to know about the WoT is that by the time you get to book 10, the plot is so bloated with irrelevant sidetracks and pointless minor characters that the only thing of note that happens in the entire 800-odd pages is that one of the main characters has a bath.

You think I'm joking don't you? I'm not. Crossroads of Twilight should have been renamed Elayne Washes

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The only thing you need to know about the WoT is that by the time you get to book 10, the plot is so bloated with irrelevant sidetracks and pointless minor characters that the only thing of note that happens in the entire 800-odd pages is that one of the main characters has a bath.

You think I'm joking don't you? I'm not. Crossroads of Twilight should have been renamed Elayne Washes

OMG, shouldn't you black out that tremendous spoiler Vestrit!? ;)

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Here are summaries of books 9 and 10 from Book-A-Minute:

Book 9 (Winter's Heart):

Perrin: I was going to rescue my wife, but that will have to wait for the next book.

Mat: I was going to escape with my friends, but that will have to wait for the next book.

Egwene: I was going to attack Tar Valon, but that will have to wait for the next book.

THE END

Book 10 (Crossroads of Twilight):

(Rand BROODS and DREAMS about his THREE WOMEN.)

Minor Characters: There is a large use of the One Power over there. (repeat indefinitely)

Perrin: I was going to save my wife, but that will have to wait for the next book.

Egwene: I was going to attack Tar Valon, but I won't finish it until the next book.

Mat: I might flirt with Tuon in the next book.

THE END

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When did Jordan's wife become his editor? I haven't heard that before, but it would sure explain a lot - was it book 7 or 8? I'm guessing 8.

I don't recall reading exactly when his wife became his editor, but IIRC it was around those books that I learned of it.

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Oh man, I might get really sick of that really fast. So what happens in book eleven, do they get their asses in gear or what?

Somewhat, but not much.

I think his wife has been the editor of all his books published by Tor. That's how they met. She's an old buddy of Tom Doherty, the founder of Tor.

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Everyone's said it dozens of times here, but I have to chime in since I am a bitter person when it comes to Jordan >:[

The first 3-4 WOT books were decent in my opinion, but it seems like the remaining books were just stuffed with air. Rank, rotten, STINKING air.

It seems like he's dragging out the story in all different directions for the simple reason to sell more books rather than to actually tell a compelling tale. While I dont fault the author for wanting to earn a lucrative income from his work, I think he does deserve a bitch-slap for putting out poor quality stuff. Clearly I'm not the only person who feels that way.

In interviews, Jordan has stated that (a) he has had the final scene written in his head since before he started writing book 1, and (B) he originally envisioned the series to be a trilogy or maybe five books at most. So why even write the others if you're just going to phone it in?

I think the people who say KoD is an improvement say that because Jordan has had to actually tighten things up and resolve the ENDLESS threads in order to end the series in any way that makes sense (I think there's only one book left, maybe two?).

Having said all that, I've bought all of them (well, got some as gifts) hoping that things would turn around. I put down KoD halfway through and I wont go back.

Every night before bed I drop to my knees and pray that GRRM doesnt go the way of Jordan with SOIAF (at least, in quality). I dont believe he will, the talent scale comparison is like night and day with these two, so we can only hope SOIAF goes for a dozen books.

./D

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No matter what everyone wants to say about RJ, WOT was the first fantasy series that i read, and even when the story has gone goes downhill, i've stuck with it. i actually tore through the books so fast on my first read that i didn't notice any of the flaws and problems which become evident on a second or third read. the books have their draw, and the writing is good. so hooray WOT! :D

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Jordan married his wife a long time before writing the WoT (1980 or 1981 I think, as I'm sure I remember him mentioning the 25th anniversary in his blog last year) and she was his editor on a few earlier books. I think somone else edited his earlier WoT novels, but Harriet took over after a few books, but couldn't say for sure where I heard that.

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Here are summaries of books 9 and 10

You forgot Rand: I'm going slowly crazy. I know it is my destiny, so I'm going to agonise about it in the next book. And the one after that. And probably the one after next too.

Ah well, at least I know everything about washing silk now. And I'm still asking myself what split skirts are supposed to look like. Wouldn't you see pretty much everything when the woman get on or off a horse? Why don't they just wear breeches?

I haven't read KOD yet, I'm waiting until it comes out as PB.

Cover design of most wot's is pretty awful though. The characters look very different from how they are described.

(Warning: spoiler)

I though bringing in the Seanchan was a superfluous move. As if there hadn't been enough plotlines and intrgues before. I suspect Jordan to go: hmm, I'll haveto get to some conclusion soon, and that means killing some main characters. But I don't want to do that. So what do I do? :idea: I'll just introduce a whole new plotline with a whole new people coming out of nowhere and starting a war!

And I was very unhappy about the way Moiraine dissapeared. Why are they all so certain that she's dead? As far as I'm concerned, she's alive in a parallel dimension. I hope she comes back at some point.

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And I was very unhappy about the way Moiraine dissapeared. Why are they all so certain that she's dead? As far as I'm concerned, she's alive in a parallel dimension. I hope she comes back at some point.

This is addressed in KoD, but yes it wasn't exactly the most unpredictable plot twist in the series, especially since Moiraine blatantly = Gandalf.

What was totally unexpected though was

SPOILER: Knife of Dreams
the fact that Mat basically finds out Moiraine is still alive. The conversation goes something like this:

Mat: "Moiraine is alive!"

Thom: "Yes, we must rescue her!"

Mat: "Yes! At once!" (instead buggers around killing Seanchan for 300 pages. Moiraine is not mentioned again in the book)

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SPOILER: KoD
Moiraine's rescue by Thom has been foreshadowed in one of the early books. He's going to enter the realm of the Snakes and Foxes through the Tower of Ghenjei, which Mat and Rand saw from the boat in the first book and which Perrin saw in a wolf dream in book 4 (I think). Mat and Olver will probably accompany him.


EDIT: Whilst generally KoD is outside the 'spoiler time' for books now, having been out for 6 months, it may be worthwhile putting spoiler tags on posts when a poster has just said they haven't read the book yet. Thanks - Werthead
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Except for the fact that The Dragonbone Chair was published two years before The Eye of the World ;) GRRM has said that it was Williams, not Jordan, who actually inspired him to write an epic fantasy series that was aimed at a proper mature audience and not just kids.

I knew that it was Williams that inspired Martin and not Jordan. I thought that was incrediblely cool. As I said in my first post I think anyone who wants to read Jordan, should read Williams first, because Williams does it better. And if you can't take the pacing of Williams, Jordan will drive you to maddness.

I didn't realize that Dragonbone Chair came out before Eye of the World though. I think that is cool as well and am glad that Williams was first. Do you have any other number mighty Werthead? How many copies has MST sold do you know, (and how do you look it up)?

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I have noticed something vaguely consistent though: people seem to feel the series started going downhill after they had to wait for the next book to come out.

I read books 1-10 in one summer. Book seven made me go "hmm.. must be a plateau in the story". Book eight made me go "What the hell? Nothing happened!". Book nine made me go "What's going on here? Enough already! Get on with it!" Book 10 was actually airborne. I waited 2 months for book 11. Read it with clenched teeth, and grudgingly admitted that it was better.

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EDIT: Whilst generally KoD is outside the 'spoiler time' for books now, having been out for 6 months, it may be worthwhile putting spoiler tags on posts when a poster has just said they haven't read the book yet. Thanks - Werthead

Werthead, what I wrote in that post is all old news. None of it is from KoD.

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How many copies has MST sold do you know, (and how do you look it up)?

Don't know figures for MST, aside from blurbs on the covers saying 'bestselling', 'international bestseller' etc, sorry. Sales figures for other books came from Wikipedia, the actual publishers, other interviews and websites etc.

Werthead, what I wrote in that post is all old news. None of it is from KoD.

True to a certain extent, but

SPOILER: KoD
Olver's involvement
was not foreshadowed in any of the earlier books IIRC. The other characters' involvement was, as you say, foreshadowed earlier though.
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