The Princess and the Queen [SPOILERS]

[Old-Growth]

And FWIW, that phrase doesn't appear in the SSM, or anything like it. That said, the SSM only contains direct text of certain things. Possibly you saw it in one of the linked interviews instead.

Thanks for looking, Ran. I could swear I stumbled on such a statement sometime last year, but the memory of a sixty something can be unreliable :(

Any chance it could have been there, but was removed as not being authentic? I presume that such has happened before.

[History of Westeros]

IIRC, the info that Rhaenyra had three sons from Lyonel Strong that were killed during the war came from Green Ronin's RPG campaign guide. I don't own it, so I can't check. Still, it's something that could have changed: the sons of Lyonel Strong have not been necessarily transferred to the new Targaryen father.

BTW, have you noticed the the modifications to the Blood of Dragons setting done by Linda and Ran? They have updated it including some of the new information available, allowing us to intuit the fate of some of the players in the Dance. Perhaps the most interesting bit is what happens with Lorent Marbrand:

{Ser Lorent} (b. 90), Lord Commander of the Queensguard, killed by rioters (d. 130)

Quite a few good bits of info in there. Some mild spoilers on why the Ironborn were troublesome and a TON of people listed as having died during the Dance. I'm sure not all of those deaths are canon, but some certainly are. The more major the name, the more likely it's canon, I'm thinking. But the dates that each page have been updated are crucial as well. Several of these have been updated in the last few days.

looks like there was no Baratheon/Targ marriage during the Dance, though the Baratheon page hasn't been updated since late June.

Also cool to see Cregan Stark in there, allows us to go back even farther in the Stark line. We had most of it figured out from him onwards.

[Lord Varys]

Just getting back on the whole topic of the 'Hightower coup' from the excerpt. If we look at it with the information of the series (especially from AGoT) in mind, what Alicent and Otto are doing does seem like it comes straight from the textbook. They control the flow of information, have prepared themselves for the king's death (or caused/hastened it), put their men in the right places, and are only going to reveal the death of Viserys after the Small Council has 'decided' who should succeed Viserys I.

Alicent and Otto are definitely much smarter than Cersei.

But since we already know that a devastating war of succession is about to break out, one cannot help but wonder if what we have seen does not matter all that much. The Targaryens have to be the people really in control of both the capital and the Realm, have they not? They have their dragons, and at this time there should be dragons all around the Dragonpit and on Dragonstone.

The flow of information is limited to the Kingsguard knights at the Red Keep (controlled by the Green man Criston Cole), and later only revealed only to the members of the Small Council who meet at the apartment of the Queen Dowager of all places. This actually does not show or deliver the feeling that the Greens are actually confident to pull off their coup...

[Arataniello]

I am now somewhat confused by comments on GRRM's blog from August 10th -

"The full 80,000 word account of the Dance will eventually appear in a book, as yet untitled, that we're calling the GRRMarillion".

Does this mean that the material (which I understood to have been written for the World book, due out realtively soon) that was the source of tP&tQ will now NOT be in the World book, but in the GRRMarillion?

[LordBloodraven]

Just going to throw this crackpot out there: what if überTarg and Lomas Longstrider are one and the same?

Excellent guess. I believe it

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

I am now somewhat confused by comments on GRRM's blog from August 10th -

"The full 80,000 word account of the Dance will eventually appear in a book, as yet untitled, that we're calling the GRRMarillion".

Does this mean that the material (which I understood to have been written for the World book, due out realtively soon) that was the source of tP&tQ will now NOT be in the World book, but in the GRRMarillion?

Ran commented on this upthread...

"The Princess of the Queen" is a shorter version of a rather longer and more detailed account of the Dance, trimmed down by focusing very tightly on the titular characters. The World of Ice and Fire draws on the entire account, distilling it down to key point and events... including things that TPatQ barely touches on, or doesn't reference at all.

So they're definitely a bit different, even if they share some commonalities due to shared content.

It will be, along with other material George has that couldn't really fit into TWoIaF, at some future date. :)

TWoIaF is getting to be a very large book presently, and there's a practical limit to how much can fit in there.

It sounds like the GRRMarillion material is source material for both TPatQ and TWoIaF

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Blacks;

House Targaryen

House Arryn

???

Greens;

House Targaryen

House Hightower

House Baratheon

House Lannister??? (Tyland Lannister was a potential hostage)

The Martells were not a part of the kingdom, so, I think they were out of the war.

[History of Westeros]

We did this a few days after the excerpt was published, but I forgot to post it here. We compile our analysis with the thoughts and theories that originated from this post and others.

History of Westeros Podcast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSeCRc4bNec&lc=6LKGfpKh6CzNCRlaPr9iqKeBAwZs5R4xkFpWdmK5wFw

[RumHam]

The Martells were not a part of the kingdom, so, I think they were out of the war.

[History of Westeros]

Stumbled across Haldon referring to Lomas Longstrider as a "scribe" so I guess he can't be uber-Targ.

This line from the Bubonicon reading spices things up a bit. Apparently this wasn't the first time a female was strongly considered for the top spot, even though Maegor, a son of Aegon himself was around. (Maegor was also Visenya's only son, and she was alive during this time, while Rhaenys was not).

However, Aenys' soon had a daughter and many argued that succession should go through Aenys and then his daughter, before reaching Maegor.

[Baela Targaryen]

I found those 2 interesting posts on tumblr:

http://nobodysuspectsthebutterfly.tumblr.com/post/58922442195/waverlyrowan-replied-to-your-post-otp-westeros

"I’ve read The Princess and the Queen, and even that isn’t much better about explaining who can ride dragons. Those with Targ blood are most likely, but it’s not absolutely exclusive to Targs (and not all those with Targ blood can become dragon rider)."

http://nobodysuspectsthebutterfly.tumblr.com/post/59370458444/meetapossum-replied-to-your-post-waverlyrowan

"To be fair, I think a lot of people will interpret a particular part to mean that only Targs can ride dragons, but there is something that happens that makes it much more speculative.

Obviously I’m being incredibly vague since I don’t want to give away any spoilers. It’ll be interesting to see what people say in December!"

[Bushido]

Alys Rivers, whose tumblr is this? A critic from Tor.com?

[RumHam]

I found those 2 interesting posts on tumblr:

http://nobodysuspect...st-otp-westeros

"I’ve read The Princess and the Queen, and even that isn’t much better about explaining who can ride dragons. Those with Targ blood are most likely, but it’s not absolutely exclusive to Targs (and not all those with Targ blood can become dragon rider)."

http://nobodysuspect...st-waverlyrowan

"To be fair, I think a lot of people will interpret a particular part to mean that only Targs can ride dragons, but there is something that happens that makes it much more speculative.

Obviously I’m being incredibly vague since I don’t want to give away any spoilers. It’ll be interesting to see what people say in December!"

Interesting.

Stumbled across Haldon referring to Lomas Longstrider as a "scribe" so I guess he can't be uber-Targ.

This line from the Bubonicon reading spices things up a bit. Apparently this wasn't the first time a female was strongly considered for the top spot, even though Maegor, a son of Aegon himself was around. (Maegor was also Visenya's only son, and she was alive during this time, while Rhaenys was not).

Is this the new reading he did the other day? got a link?

[Arataniello]

Is this the new reading he did the other day? got a link?

there is a thread in the Brotherhood without Banners forum about Bubonicom, the reading details are in there.

[RumHam]

there is a thread in the Brotherhood without Banners forum about Bubonicom, the reading details are in there.

Ah thanks, lots of interesting stuff.

[Fire Eater]

Though armies marched and met in savage battle, much of the slaughter took place on water

There will be fighting between navies with Redwyne fleet fighting on the side of Aegon, and Dany's fleet consisting of the Iron Fleet, and captured ships from the fleets of Slaver's Bay, Qarth and Volantis along with a pirate fleet led by corsair king and Master of Ships: Gerion Lannister. He is best suited to the job since he has over a decade of naval combat experience.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Though armies marched and met in savage battle, much of the slaughter took place on water

There will be fighting between navies with Redwyne fleet fighting on the side of Aegon, and Dany's fleet consisting of the Iron Fleet, and captured ships from the fleets of Slaver's Bay, Qarth and Volantis along with a pirate fleet led by corsair king and Master of Ships: Gerion Lannister. He is best suited to the job since he has over a decade of naval combat experience.

Will krakens be drawn to the great battle the way Drogon was drawn to the pit?

[History of Westeros]

Will krakens be drawn to the great battle the way Drogon was drawn to the pit?

The blood and commotion should be substantial but Dragonbinder might be heard deep down as well.

So to answer your question: I hope so.

[Fire Eater]

Will krakens be drawn to the great battle the way Drogon was drawn to the pit?

I think the only kraken attack we will see is when Arya is on one of Dany's ships to Westeros.

[Old-Growth]

There will be fighting between navies with Redwyne fleet fighting on the side of Aegon.....

As much of it as survives the encounter with Euron and the rest of the ships from the iron islands, and assuming that Euron does not manage to pen Lord Paxter's ships up in Oldtown harbor.

It seems to me more likely that Euron stayed in Westeros rather than sailing with the Iron Fleet. If so there is little chance that Lord Paxter will "sweep the ironmen from the sea" as Lord Mace so foolishly says.