Bran, the King in the North?

[aryagonnakill]

As much as I love Bran and am pinning my hopes of a Stark revival on him, he's not the person to rebuild the human race... I'm not entirely sure he'll be having much sex unless they have some kind of viagra.

I might as well post this here as anywhere, even quadrapelegic people still have erections, and thus obviously get turned on. I'm not saying it happens or anything but I am saying Bran could still consumate his feelings for Meera.

[Apple the Great]

I might as well post this here as anywhere, even quadrapelegic people still have erections, and thus obviously get turned on. I'm not saying it happens or anything but I am saying Bran could still consumate his feelings for Meera.

Yeah I had a quick google search after I wrote it, so that was lazy of me not to do it before. I read that they can have erections but most of them don't have any sensation in their penis. It's possible I guess.

[Eddward Stark]

I was more shocked about this last line, Eddward Stark, because I'm afraid that is the destiny of Ned's heirs.

Regards!

I enjoyed reading your post, KatieStar. My comment about Bran probably never having children was made because I assume Ned was not mistaken when he and Arya were talking in GoT, and Ned said that Bran will never be able to have children of his own. I would love if Bran could get the use of his lower extremities back (all three of them), but the Three-Eyed Crow tells him he will never walk again. I hope that the TEC said this only as some sort of a lesson for Bran, or that he's simply mistaken (he can't see everything in the future), but I must assume for now that Bran won't be able to procreate. :(

After typing this, I saw the last 2 posts. I guess we'll have to wait and see about Bran's use of that one extremity.

Bran and Daenerys would therefore make the perfect childless couple then?

HA! I hope not! Dany may become pregnant again though. This is way off topic, but she may have just had a miscarriage in her last chapter in ADWD. (See the prophesy by Mirri Maz Duur and an interpretation of it here.)

[Apple the Great]

HA! I hope not! Dany may become pregnant again though. This is way off topic, but she may have just had a miscarriage in her last chapter in ADWD. (See the prophesy by Mirri Maz Duur and an interpretation of it here.)

Wow! I hadn't seen that! It's actually my sincerest hope that Bran becomes King in the North and marries Daenerys of the Six Kingdoms and the rule the whole thing jointly, with a Stark successor. And if Bran regains the use of his lower body all the better.

[Eddward Stark]

Wow! I hadn't seen that! It's actually my sincerest hope that Bran becomes King in the North and marries Daenerys of the Six Kingdoms and the rule the whole thing jointly, with a Stark successor. And if Bran regains the use of his lower body all the better.

That would be interesting, but IMHO it's hard to imagine Dany ever falling for someone who's not a strong, dominant, asshole-ish warrior type (even if Bran is powerful in many other ways, he's not like that)...okay unless he controls and rides one of the dragons, then maybe that'd be enough for her.

[aryagonnakill]

That would be interesting, but IMHO it's hard to imagine Dany ever falling for someone who's not a strong, dominant, asshole-ish warrior type (even if Bran is powerful in many other ways, he's not like that)...okay unless he controls and rides one of the dragons, then maybe that'd be enough for her.

I am pretty good at reading girls and I have to input that they can like more than one thing.

[Apple the Great]

That would be interesting, but IMHO it's hard to imagine Dany ever falling for someone who's not a strong, dominant, asshole-ish warrior type (even if Bran is powerful in many other ways, he's not like that)...okay unless he controls and rides one of the dragons, then maybe that'd be enough for her.

A Queen belongs to her people. Dany might see marriage to Bran, with all his mad powers and the alliance with the North as enough to compensate for any lack of passion. That said, maybe she'll grow up and start prefering mud to fire. Though this is all just my crackpot hopes and dreams - I don't think it will actually happen.

I am pretty good at reading girls and I have to input that they can like more than one thing.

I've no idea what women like, and I deeply suspect neither do they.

[-Ghost-]

No, it's not. People keep throwing their desires into this but law is law and while we don't have a manuscript of westerosi law, assuming it is different from any other law ever really made doesn't make sense to me as I have posted elsewhere. We do not know the exact words of Jons will. If he legitimized Jon in the name of his father he could have very well made Jon king of Westeros. If he said "I name you Jon Snow my Heir Jon Stark" then Jon is his heir as simple as that. I have family, but I could will anyone in the world my estate, so could Robb.

Its most likely true that Jon is Robb's heir in the will and that would mean he eould come before Bran and the other kids but Im almost positive Jon would say no if he found out Bran was alive. He may accept the legitimizing part but no way would he take WF from Bran. Stannis offered Jon a free pass out of the NW, the last name of Stark, Val as his bride and Lord of Winterfell and he still turned it down because he felt wrong about taking it from his brothers, who at that time are thought of as dead.

[Winter's Prince]

No, it's not. People keep throwing their desires into this but law is law and while we don't have a manuscript of westerosi law, assuming it is different from any other law ever really made doesn't make sense to me as I have posted elsewhere. We do not know the exact words of Jons will. If he legitimized Jon in the name of his father he could have very well made Jon king of Westeros. If he said "I name you Jon Snow my Heir Jon Stark" then Jon is his heir as simple as that. I have family, but I could will anyone in the world my estate, so could Robb.

You don't need a manuscript of westerosi law, it's commons sense duh.

[Eddward Stark]

A Queen belongs to her people. Dany might see marriage to Bran, with all his mad powers and the alliance with the North as enough to compensate for any lack of passion. That said, maybe she'll grow up and start prefering mud to fire. Though this is all just my crackpot hopes and dreams - I don't think it will actually happen.

That's very true. Dany has already shown the capacity to marry for political reasons. Hopefully she'll wise up when it comes to liking the bad-boy type!

I've no idea what women like, and I deeply suspect neither do they.

Hear, hear. :cheers:

[summer_stark]

No, it's not. People keep throwing their desires into this but law is law and while we don't have a manuscript of westerosi law, assuming it is different from any other law ever really made doesn't make sense to me as I have posted elsewhere. We do not know the exact words of Jons will. If he legitimized Jon in the name of his father he could have very well made Jon king of Westeros. If he said "I name you Jon Snow my Heir Jon Stark" then Jon is his heir as simple as that. I have family, but I could will anyone in the world my estate, so could Robb.

You don't need a manuscript of westerosi law, it's commons sense duh.

Well, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say neither of you are lawyers. Since that's likely the case, let me clarify a bit about the law of wills and estates--taking into account that this is like middle ages England: the English have more of a "forced heirs" law--Americans otoh, can bequeath their estates to whomever they choose.

However, there is some wiggle room for King. But, even though Kings can name other family members in the will, it is not the end of the discussion.

Intention matters, as it did in middle ages England. I said this before, but maybe it was a different thread: there is a law that has existed since like 300AD that is called the "omitted heirs" law--which even exists in the US. It means that if an heir is omitted from the will unintentionally--usually because that heir was thought dead, or wasn't born when the will was written--then the omitted heirs inherit as if they were in the will.

In other words, if Robb said Jon is my heir, Bran would still have a claim because his omission from the will was unintentional. The way this is disproven is if the will specifically disinherits an heir--like Robb did with Sansa--or if the will gives him something else, meaning he was thought of).

However, I concede that this will most likely not come into play in Westeros. Even if it did, which I doubt, I don't think it will be make a difference. I think what will make a difference is Jon knowing that Robb didn't mean to disinherit his brothers, so he will step aside.

Also, there is still a problem for Bran--and it is not that Robb's will names Jon heir (if that is what it does). The problem is that the will also (most likely) legitimizes Jon, which cannot be undone, as Cat so astutely noted. So, although this seems like an insignificant difference, legally, it makes all the difference.

There is still the question of where legit bastards fall in the line of succession, and I don't know the answer to that. But, I figured I'd clear up all of these misconceptions about the law of wills :).

[Blue Rose Direwolf]

Jon will continue to turn down being Lord of Winterfell or King in the North because he will be King of Westeros, of course! He is the Prince that was Promised! AA reborn!

:bowdown:

I do think that Rickon will probably become the Lord of Winterfell and will swear allegiance to King Jon, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, titles, titles, etc., etc.

Sansa will either become Lady of the Vale or Lady of Casterly Rock. And Arya will... Gods know what Arya will do. I'm still holding out for her to run from the FM and come home to her family. I also think she'll hook up with Gendry who maybe will inherit Storm's End and so Arya will become Lady of Storm's End. Probably not because the FM will kill her if she runs from them, but I can always hope.

I think that Bran, alas, will stay under his tree. He's going to be the Stark link to all that has gone on before and all that is going on now. He'll have tons of advice for his brothers and sisters.

Oh yeah, and as King, Jon is going to plant Weirwoods all over the south. Mwuhahahahaha!!!

[Apple the Great]

I think that Bran, alas, will stay under his tree. He's going to be the Stark link to all that has gone on before and all that is going on now. He'll have tons of advice for his brothers and sisters.

But why would Bran stay under the tree if he can fly dragons and see the world? He was a boy that dreamed of joining the Kingsguard and being a famous knight. He's not going to become famous while sat underground, becoming part of a tree. His powers give him a chance to realise his dreams at least partially and be the hero he wanted to be, so I don't think he's going to stay under the tree. I mean, even now, he's exploring the cave through Hodor - admittedly he can potentially see much of the world from under the tree, but it's not the same and it doesn't strike me as a kid who wants to stay in a cave for the rest of his long, long life.

[Eddward Stark]

I think that Bran, alas, will stay under his tree. He's going to be the Stark link to all that has gone on before and all that is going on now. He'll have tons of advice for his brothers and sisters.

:crying:

I hope you're wrong about this particular one. Bran's been dealt a bad hand (then again, what Stark kid hasn't??); he needs to live out his life before retiring to the tree! He only needs to be near some weirwood, not necessarily in that cave, in order to do his job. Maybe he'll become Lord of the Isle of Faces. :cool4: Okay, just kidding about the last part.

[KatieStar]

None of it was insane or stupid at all katie star.

Right now it doesn't look like any of Ned's kids will produce heirs to Winterfell, and Winterfell is half-ruined and in the hands of their evil enemies. This whole story may still end with the utter destruction of the Stark line, and Winterfell becoming a ghostly ruin.

A Stark baby or pregnancy thrown into the story would be very welcome as a ray of hope for the North.

Thanks for your kind words :)

About the Starks, I'm not quite confident because GRRM is expert in butchering this family but I have a little bit of hope. I mean, maybe Winterfell right now is nothing more that some burned rocks but if is something like the Starks will help to rebuilt Westeros and by so the destruction of their household is a metaphor of their rebirth. A new Age of Heroes. Because lets face it. All the Stark children are pretty heroic, even Rickon.

I enjoyed reading your post, KatieStar. My comment about Bran probably never having children was made because I assume Ned was not mistaken when he and Arya were talking in GoT, and Ned said that Bran will never be able to have children of his own.

Thanks. You're nice!!

I don't see the connection between his legs and his reproduction abilities. I also don't recall Ned telling that to Arya but maybe was a display of medieval ignorance? I think Bran is very capable of having children but I don't see a chance of that. I think his destiny is more great than that. He will be not just a man and because of that, his priorities will be beyond love or just sex for that matters.

HA! I hope not! Dany may become pregnant again though. This is way off topic, but she may have just had a miscarriage in her last chapter in ADWD. (See the prophesy by Mirri Maz Duur and an interpretation of it here.)

Sadly, for me, everything points out that Dany will never become a mother beyond her dragons. That's why I believe in Aegon as a true Targaryen. If the Targaryen win the Iron Throne they will need a leader capable of having heirs. And because I believe the Starks will rule alongside them, Sansa is my choice for a queen. There's a pretty good chance that Dany will die at the end of the saga. In my dream world, she will be the Queen and will rule for years but I know GRRM and that's not likely.

But why would Bran stay under the tree if he can fly dragons and see the world? He was a boy that dreamed of joining the Kingsguard and being a famous knight. He's not going to become famous while sat underground, becoming part of a tree.

I'm not sure about the "famous part". You mean been mentioned on songs or tales? If you're, I think you're right but I hardly think Bran is thinking about that. He's just a boy, yes, but a very old one by now. Here and there child dreams resurface but he knows that he's meant to do greater things. And by the way, fight great battles, been a knight and stuff isn't the only way to become a hero.

[Apple the Great]

I'm not sure about the "famous part". You mean been mentioned on songs or tales? If you're, I think you're right but I hardly think Bran is thinking about that. He's just a boy, yes, but a very old one by now. Here and there child dreams resurface but he knows that he's meant to do greater things. And by the way, fight great battles, been a knight and stuff isn't the only way to become a hero.

Yep, I mean be mentioned in songs and poems and tales, be remembered and revered for his swordsmanship as Barristan the Bold and Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. Childhood dreams and wishes don't just evaporate; sometimes you grow up and realise they are unrealistic or impractical, sometimes you actually realise that they are really dumb. Other times, you follow them. For sure, Bran might be thinking about other things, and in fact, he comes to accept that he won't walk again, but do you really think he doesn't want to be a great hero any more, do you really think he wouldn't want the use of his legs and to be a knight any more? I think Bran sees his old dreams as impossible and puts them to one side... but now he has the power to be in the stories and be remembered for ever and ever, he has the power to be the one who helped defeat the others, who rebuilt the Wall and Winterfell. What boy wouldn't want that? What boy wouldn't want to ride dragons? Damn it! I'm 25 and want to ride dragons!

Yes, fighting great battles and being a knight isn't the only way to be a hero, but you ask a boy of about 11/12 what he wants to be, The Sword of the Morning or Baelor the Blessed, what do you think they'd chose :P?

[Winter's Prince]

Well, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say neither of you are lawyers. Since that's likely the case, let me clarify a bit about the law of wills and estates--taking into account that this is like middle ages England: the English have more of a "forced heirs" law--Americans otoh, can bequeath their estates to whomever they choose.

However, there is some wiggle room for King. But, even though Kings can name other family members in the will, it is not the end of the discussion.

Intention matters, as it did in middle ages England. I said this before, but maybe it was a different thread: there is a law that has existed since like 300AD that is called the "omitted heirs" law--which even exists in the US. It means that if an heir is omitted from the will unintentionally--usually because that heir was thought dead, or wasn't born when the will was written--then the omitted heirs inherit as if they were in the will.

In other words, if Robb said Jon is my heir, Bran would still have a claim because his omission from the will was unintentional. The way this is disproven is if the will specifically disinherits an heir--like Robb did with Sansa--or if the will gives him something else, meaning he was thought of).

However, I concede that this will most likely not come into play in Westeros. Even if it did, which I doubt, I don't think it will be make a difference. I think what will make a difference is Jon knowing that Robb didn't mean to disinherit his brothers, so he will step aside.

Also, there is still a problem for Bran--and it is not that Robb's will names Jon heir (if that is what it does). The problem is that the will also (most likely) legitimizes Jon, which cannot be undone, as Cat so astutely noted. So, although this seems like an insignificant difference, legally, it makes all the difference.

There is still the question of where legit bastards fall in the line of succession, and I don't know the answer to that. But, I figured I'd clear up all of these misconceptions about the law of wills :).

YES, that's exactly what I was saying and knew!!! But I just never took into account the succession line thing where Jon falls in after being legitimized.

[KatieStar]

Yes, fighting great battles and being a knight isn't the only way to be a hero, but you ask a boy of about 11/12 what he wants to be, The Sword of the Morning or Baelor the Blessed, what do you think they'd chose :P?

I didn't said that he couldn't dream about or want that anymore. Gee, even he eventually choose to be a rebel and live his dreams. But as you say, if I ask a boy but Bran isn't any boy. You think that a great mind like him could be wasted on been just a knight who ride dragons for joy? He never walk again. I think that's a fact. He has Summer for that and can travel time and space with his mind. Of course, there's a missing link about how Bran will deal with all of that and how will be applied to contribute with the war against the Others.

I think we sometimes want all to be idealistic about a world we don't control. You know: "Jon will be king and married to Dany" (Despite the fact that he wears black and didn't met Dany yet or even when she might be his cousin) for example, forgetting that GRRM is a truly bastard until now and doesn't write character's happy endings because he's more invested in the Westeros history of at all. Every character is a device for an end. And yes, I think almost every character we know will be dead by the seventh book.

[Eddward Stark]

I love this discussion. :D I'm glad not everyone has written Bran off, and not everyone thinks he's going down some dark path. (Those people are nuts, if you ask me.)

And I think we will have a mostly happy ending to the series.

[Blue Rose Direwolf]

But why would Bran stay under the tree if he can fly dragons and see the world? He was a boy that dreamed of joining the Kingsguard and being a famous knight. He's not going to become famous while sat underground, becoming part of a tree. His powers give him a chance to realise his dreams at least partially and be the hero he wanted to be, so I don't think he's going to stay under the tree. I mean, even now, he's exploring the cave through Hodor - admittedly he can potentially see much of the world from under the tree, but it's not the same and it doesn't strike me as a kid who wants to stay in a cave for the rest of his long, long life.

Dude, I hope I'm wrong and you're right. I'd love for Bran to get out in the world and have a real life. But I don't think that'll happen. GRRM won't let Bran have so many powers and not sacrifice a great deal for them. I think Bran will probably become BR's successor and become a powerful greenseer in the North.