E-Ro Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 What can I say, happens to the best of people, such as Julius Caesar.Yea, poor guy.At least jon will come back, although how he comes back and how death affects him is yet to be seen. As soon as rickon is found jons claim to winterfell is pretty much gone, I wonder whats in store for jon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Africanus Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Julius Caesar was really nothing like Jon, except that both briefly occupied positions of power. If you want to talk about a person responsible for atrocities and brutality, Caesar's your guy.I didn't want to compare Jon with my main man Gaius Julius Caesar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Africanus Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Yea, poor guy.At least jon will come back, although how he comes back and how death affects him is yet to be seen. As soon as rickon is found jons claim to winterfell is pretty much gone, I wonder whats in store for jon?Jon won't steal Winterfell from his "siblings" unless his character changes 180 degrees.Jon imidiate future is walking around on 4 legs and wearing a permanant furry white coat, that I can predict for you. After that I don't know. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Jon imidiate future is walking around on 4 legs and wearing a permanant furry white coat, that I can predict for you. After that I don't know. :)I hope not, his pov would be missed. Unless it becomes the first "animal" pov? That might be interesting, I geuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GillyTarly Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 She's just such a good villain. Even in Judge Dredd. I half wish he didn't apply Justice on her criminal ass.Yes! Especially a crazy villian like Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Africanus Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I hope not, his pov would be missed. Unless it becomes the first "animal" pov? That might be interesting, I geuss.He'll link up with Bran (as GhostJon) either through a weirwood tree or by going to Brynden Rivers' pad (which is a long way beyond the Wall). That too I can predict for you. And yes its likely we won't see human Jon much for most of WoW. Or even have that many GhostJon chapters.But on the bright side, I think we'll see a lot of Stan in WoW. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fassreiter Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I'm totally shocked at the amount of posts I've seen on here lately either saying they don't like Jon or possibly worse yet people who say he is boring. I have no idea how anyone paying attention to what they are reading could come to the conclusion that he is boring. He has provided 90% of the POV of what is going on at the Wall and North of the Wall, which provides valuable insight into what is going to be one of the most important aspects of the story when all is said and done. He has also done some really cool things which show what an honorable person he is, such as the way he saved Sam from a life of Hell. Besides that he is nothing short of an awesome character and has a totally bad ass direwolf. Without Jon we wouldn't have the pleasure of meeting characters like Dolorous Edd, LC Mormont, or Tormund Giantsbane either.I know people who don't like Jon are in the minority but I'm just curious what bothers some people about him. My theory is some people simply don't care for the different feel and setting the Jon and Bran chapters have as compared to the rest of the POV's. Maybe it's nothing more than that. I really enjoy the more rugged and supernatural aspect of the POV's from the North, but that's just me.There are people who don't look for someone to identify with in a story, they look for a good story. You can enjoy a good story completely without adoring the main character. So I don't care if Jon is a good guy or has an awesome wolf. Compared to many of the other characters GRRM created, Jon's story arc is driven completely by outward plights and conflicts. His inner conflicts amount to someone saying 'I work too hard' when asked about his flaws in a job interview. To me, this is a bit lame. I don't hate Jon. Everything north of the Wall belongs to my favourite parts of the book. But I really wish we would have had someone with a bit more substance to him or her as a narrator-POV. The actor's portrayal in the show captures perfectly what I think about Jon: He stands around with an open mouth trying hard not to show that he knows he is supposed to be awesome, and to this end he scowls a lot. I suspect modern fantasy authors don't believe they can sell a book if readers aren't in love with the main character. The way GRRM throws motives, tropes and conflicts at us that are meant to make us adore Jon is pretty annoying. The awesome wolf is right on top of this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonNonRegis Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I don't know why anyone would hate Jon when that time might be spent so much more profitably hating entire subplots, such as Dorne.I find Jon's decision-making process kooky -- I certainly would not have volunteered to go to the Wall as a teenager, hoping to die a virgin and spend decades in the company of prison scum, while defending the realm from a villainous threat which could not be bothered to show its face in eight thousand years......but hey, it takes all types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 But on the bright side, I think we'll see a lot of Stan in WoW. ;)Oh I really hope so, im hoping we will delve a bit more deeply into what makes Stannis "tick" I hope for a more in depth look at the man. I would also like to hear more of his childhood, and a battle scene or two wouldnt hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Éadaoin Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I've actually been warming up to Jon lately, though I don't think he'll ever be one of my favorites. I just don't connect with his character for some reason. I do want him to have a happy ending, though, because I think he deserves it. If ASOIAF was real life, I'd want him on my side - he just falls a bit flat on the page for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevumar Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 There are people who don't look for someone to identify with in a story, they look for a good story. You can enjoy a good story completely without adoring the main character. So I don't care if Jon is a good guy or has an awesome wolf.I don't look for someone to "identify with" in the books that I read, but I also don't have any major issues with Jon. In fact, one of the most puzzling things I see people write about characters on these boards is that they can't "identify with" that character. I'm not sure why this should be a barrier to appreciating or understanding that character, it just seems like a vague non-reason for disliking someone.Compared to many of the other characters GRRM created, Jon's story arc is driven completely by outward plights and conflicts. His inner conflicts amount to someone saying 'I work too hard' when asked about his flaws in a job interview. To me, this is a bit lame. I don't hate Jon.Actually, I think we do see a lot of internal conflict within Jon as he tries to reconcile his father's teachings about duty and honor with his socially-unacceptable desire for status denied him by circumstances beyond his control. There is a lot of growth that's required to put away his resentments about his lot in life and rise above his childishness and the lack of dedication of some of his peers. It's especially interesting to see him juxtaposed with someone like Qhorin on the page.The way GRRM throws motives, tropes and conflicts at us that are meant to make us adore Jon is pretty annoying. The awesome wolf is right on top of this list.Jon is one of the few genuinely decent people in the books, and I don't know why there's a portion of the fanbase that interprets this relatively normal personality to some conspiracy on Martin's part to compel us to "adore" Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I've actually been warming up to Jon lately, though I don't think he'll ever be one of my favorites. I just don't connect with his character for some reason. I do want him to have a happy ending, though, because I think he deserves it. If ASOIAF was real life, I'd want him on my side - he just falls a bit flat on the page for me.Wow, someone offers a fair, non-nasty, non-cliched, non-confrontational response to why Jon isn't her favorite character. The sky must be falling. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paytheironicprice Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I don't think it is that crazy for someone to dislike Jon. I certainly do like the character, but I'm not a big fan of how he is written. As a few posts have mentioned, there's just some sort of disconnect between the character and the reader that makes him feel (to me at least) a little less three-dimensional. It's not a constant thing, either. With Jon, the more action there is around him, the more readable he is because you get to see more of Jon the person, and less of Jon the character. It's the in-between chapters, when the book is just dealing with the tedium of Castle Black that his POV just becomes kind of endlessly bleak, which doesn't exactly make for the most engaging read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Éadaoin Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Wow, someone offers a fair, non-nasty, non-cliched, non-confrontational response to why Jon isn't her favorite character. The sky must be falling. :PYeah, I used to be a bit of a Jon troll, but damn, the guy grew on me despite my best intentions. :P I can't help but respect him. I used to find his chapters dull, but am thinking of doing a Jon reread when I get the time to see if I can look at his character in a new way. Someone mentioned that his arc can be compared in some ways to Sansa's (I think you probably know that I'm a Sansa fan) and that Jon/Sansa post by tze got me interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Is it just me or was this thread locked for a sec? Am I going insane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Is it just me or was this thread locked for a sec? Am I going insane?Yes it was; I was thinking that too. Maybe because of the off-topic talking of the show? :blushing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Éadaoin Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Is it just me or was this thread locked for a sec? Am I going insane?It was, for a few minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paytheironicprice Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Is it just me or was this thread locked for a sec? Am I going insane?I think it was because the conversation was steering heavily towards discussion of the TV series instead of the books. Those posts seem to be gone, so a mod must have cleaned up the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Africanus Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Is it just me or was this thread locked for a sec? Am I going insane?Some poor mod had to delete a lot of "HBO series" post I suspect. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Is it just me or was this thread locked for a sec? Am I going insane?You are not going insane. My last comment has dissapeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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