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Jorg Ancrath

A solid Jaime Lannister Azor Ahai Theory

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Jaime is my favourite character, but i don't see him as AA. also i don't see him alive after AWOW. this is sad, but his storyline is going to end

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I haven't seen the actual prophecy verbiage before and I think the second part about killing the lion is pretty damn important. I know Jamie killed another Lannister in his prison cell but I can't remember how he did in the books. Did he snap his neck/choke him like he did in the show or did he use a sword? I can't recall but I doubt he would have a weapon in his cell.

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I've been talking about this with my friends a while. I think that Jaime is the only candidate to be Azhor Ahai. He's the only person within enough proximity to the things needed to become Azhor Ahai...

Things needed to become Azhor Ahai.

A sword capable of holding magic (Valyrian Steel or Obsidian) - Oathkeeper.

A lion to sacrifice - Tommen or Lancel (not Cersei or Tyrion)

A pure soul that he loves to sacrifice -- Brienne

A way to become reborn - Thoros of Myr & whatever that magic is that brought back Beric and Catelyn.

And nowhere does it say AA has to be a Targaryen.

No other character is within that type of proximity... Unless!

Mellisandre takes the dying Jon south, and lady Stoneheart gives him the magic after he dies... Then he kills Jaime to make Lightbringer, but then who is Nissa Nissa?

That last part does not make sense for Jon, and unless there's new information added I don't see who else it could be.

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Hope I don't come off as too critical or hostile, but I don't agree with anything here.

It's not a solid theory at all. It relies on a lot of assumptions and speculation. It's more like you want Jaime to be "the Hero", so you work his story and possible story around the prophecy, when if we're going to trust prophecy at all it has to be the other way. We get a prophecy and then see where it fits, not grab a character and fit them into a prophecy.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Jaime is important in that respect to the story. Jon had a dream that he had a red sword. Dany was given a vision of her fighting an army armored in ice at the trident while she was on a dragon. Stannis at least has someone connected to Asshai proclaiming him. Jaime has been given nothing, no hints, no clues, no dreams pertaining to it. (Even with his Weirwood nap. the only connection there is Brienne having a burning sword, but that looks more like a hint for her than him.)

Its really not very solid to theorize Jaime as the prince/Azor Ahai, but I do think it would be one crazy plot twist. But with the lack of evidence it will look horribly like a Deus Ex Machina.

And nowhere does it say AA has to be a Targaryen.

The woods witch says so, and her prophecy needs to be treated with as much validity as any other like an ancient one from Asshai. Azor Ahai Reborn is as much a prophecy as the woods witch, so both are equal in terms of how far we can even trust prophecy. So assuming there will be an Azor Ahai, s/he has to come from the line of Aerys II and Rhaella, which in order is Rhaegar, Viserys, Dany, Rhaenys, Aegon, and then Jon. (and I guess Rhaego too) Any seeds Aerys planted elsewhere wouldn't count.

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This whole thing assumes that AAR will be a case of "The amazing [x person] and his/her amazing magic sword saves the world from the evil monsters" which is just...no. If AAR does exist, it will be much more subtle and mysterious than that.

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Hi :)



I totally agree that Jaime is AA, however i don't think he has to be reborn.


In fact i think this part of the prophecy has already been fulfilled!!!


After his hand was cut off, Jaime himself said, he was not the man he was before.


He lost the hand with which he killed the mad king, with which he pushed Bran and there's even more to that...



I can't explain it as well as the guy i got this from ^^



sooo i rly recommend this blog from dorian the histoian:


http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.co.at/2013/05/jaime-azor-ahai-god-of-war.html



it really contains some of the best and most solid theories i've seen so far, hope you like it :D


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I think that the PTWT (and AAR) has to come from the line of Aerys and Rhaella.


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AAR and the PTWP are one in the same.

So either it is Jon alone or

Dany, Jon, and Bran.

oh no PTWP and AA are not obligatory one in the same,they could be two different heroes...

for me the PTWP is the one who is meant to rule the kingdom, while AA is the saviour of (all) mankind, just like tyr in norse mythology, who saved mankind from the ice giants, the one-handed god of war...

the ice giants are very similar to what jon is facing at the wall and maybe leads them south in future books...don't think he'll fight against them, but will use them...

so dany would have her weapons of mass destruction a.k.a dragons and jon the white walkers, sound not like a saviour to me! also imagine dany saving slavers or jon rescuing ramsay bolton, never! azor ahai is the saviour of all!

tywins children may even be targaryens, we know the mad king showed some interest in joanna, plus they suddenly he and tywin split up without explanation!? also the mad king was known for raping women and at the same time a guy gets his tongue cut out...ser ilyn payne may have been the only witness to the rape of joanna lannister...

so i'll stick to jaime :)

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oh no PTWP and AA are not obligatory one in the same,they could be two different heroes...

GRRM pretty much confirmed that AAR=TPTWP.

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GRRM pretty much confirmed that AAR=TPTWP.

THANK YOU for reinfocing this and sorry, i totally missed it, but now i know more ;)

was pretty excited righ now.

but didn't he just say that melisandre thinks so!? in the books she is also the only one to reffer to them as one in the same?

"Melisandre sees that the lord of light gives him a token of his role as the prince that was promised by an ancient prophecy. And of course, that's his sword Lightbringer."

i know...just quibbling and i believe you now, sry ^^

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Does anyone remember Jaime's dream in aSoS , where he wakes up in a semi-cave in casterly rock, holding a sword that lit the way, he described the sword as having a blue flame, and when brienne held the sword, it was still aflame. That was when i first thought Jaime has a crucial role, idk what you guys think so please inform me if i was misguided by the dream.



Oh and among all of the other characters, the only character who had been reborn so far was Jaime from when they cut his arm off, he became an other person, unlike dany, who had just got to think better of herself after being 'Reborn'


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Does anyone remember Jaime's dream in aSoS , where he wakes up in a semi-cave in casterly rock, holding a sword that lit the way, he described the sword as having a blue flame, and when brienne held the sword, it was still aflame. That was when i first thought Jaime has a crucial role, idk what you guys think so please inform me if i was misguided by the dream.

Oh and among all of the other characters, the only character who had been reborn so far was Jaime from when they cut his arm off, he became an other person, unlike dany, who had just got to think better of herself after being 'Reborn'

Brienne's sword burns red, which makes me think the evidence is stronger for her, not him. Either way though, it would be a gigantic asspull and my copy of the WoW or aDoS would be covered in vomit if that's what happens. :D

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Brienne's sword burns red, which makes me think the evidence is stronger for her, not him. Either way though, it would be a gigantic asspull and my copy of the WoW or aDoS would be covered in vomit if that's what happens. :D

If memory serves, her sword burns blue, not red (unless you're not referring to the dream ?)

Too lazy to dwell on that right now (I'll come back later),

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Here's your smoke and salt:

His hand burned.

Still, still, long after they had snuffed out the torch they'd used to sear his bloody stump, days after, he could still feel the fire lancing up his arm, and his fingers twisting in the flames, the fingers he no longer had.

He had taken wounds before, but never like this. He had never known there could be such pain. Sometimes, unbidden, old prayers bubbled from his lips, prayers he learned as a child and never thought of since, prayers he had first prayed with Cersei kneeling beside him in the sept at Casterly Rock. Sometimes he even wept, until he heard the Mummers laughing. Then he made his eyes go dry and his heart go dead, and prayed for his fever to burn away his tears. Now I know how Tyrion has felt, all those times they laughed at him.

A bleeding hand also looks like a bleeding star...a five pointed star...

So there you go....

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I actually think Jaime is a great candidate for the concept of "AA" and still is my crackpot guess on who AA is. (If this person will even exist or we seem some form of history repeating itself)



My crackpot reasons:



1. GRRM the master of misdirection - although Dany and Jon seem more obvious, I wouldn't put it past GRRM to use another character as the AA symbol. From the beginning Jaime looks like a hero (golden, knightly) but really isn't (sleeps with his sister (breaking moral, ethical, social and sacred vows in the process), throws an innocent child out the window, etc... the person you least expect to be the "hero"



2. Jamie's weirwood stump nap and dream - what was telling was Joanna's sadness and tears that hint that Jaime and Cersei may not be Tywin's children....which leads us to wonder if they could be Aerys...thus making Jaime born of the same line as Jon and Dany (if this is even relevant). Why wouldn't Joanna be proud of her children, especially since Jaime and Cersei become what Tywin always wanted for them?



I also found it interesting that Jaime answers ghost Rheagar's remarks that he was suppose to protect Rheagar's children - a small connection to Jon and how he failed at the very core as a knight (protect the weak and innocent) and a member of the Kingsguard (protect the King/his family). This dream starts Jaime's redemption or rebirth.



3. Jaime has his epiphany at a weirwood stump, hmmm, I've always wondered if Bloodraven was trying to show or contact Jaime in a way. Bran sees vision of things that happened in the past/future....could Jaime's conversation with his mother be similar? Was BR in charge of this vision?



4. Even Jaime's nickname of Kingslayer - could that be telling us something? Maybe Aerys isn't the only "King" that Jaime kills? Could he be the one to slay the Great Other? Maybe it's just more misdirection.



5. My problem with Tyrion being Targaryen is that his birth happens much later after Aerys makes those comments about Joanna. Tywin does not seem like the type to take those comments lightly without ensuring that Joanna was protected from Aerys way before Tyrion was conceived (which is why he could never prove Tyrion was not his own). And if Aerys was having his way with Joanna, wouldn't Varys find out? Wouldn't someone have told Tywin, even if it was a rumour? If Aerys did take advantage of Joanna, wouldn't the opportunity be more likely when Tywin was Hand of the King and she was in Kings Landing? Tyrion was born in Casterly Rock, I don't know if we are ever told where Cersei and Jaime are born.



6. Could slaying the Lion - be Jaime's rejection of Tywin's Lannister legacy and Casterly Rock, the loss of his sword hand (which made him the feared Lion) or his rejection of his sister/lover?



7. His Nissa/Nissa - that's a tough one, I'm also siding more with Brienne than with Cersei, but more from the standpoint of Brienne reminds Jaime why he became a Knight in the first place and what his vows truly mean, even if it may mean her death. I'm hoping WOW brings us some new info.



8. What Lord Martin says above - great quote!



I know crackpot. I feel like Jon will be the leader of the army (the new King of Winter) that fights that others but that people like Jaime and Dany will be part of the fight and become heroes in their own right.


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I'm a bit weary of women as pretty sacrifices.


As much as I like Jaime, just for sake of rebellion, I crackpot Brienne as AA, forging Lightbinger (maybe from Oathkeeper) by plunging it through Jaime's heart!



I guess AA loved Nissa. Jaime atm doesn't love Cersei much - wouldn't be that much of a sacrifice, since everybody wants him to kill her anyway for jealousy or whatever...

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