Will the North declare for Dany?

[BlackStark]

No.

Firstly, they want independence.

Secondly, even if they would be ruled as a part of the seven kingdomw, they wouldn't want Dany, because she's Targaryen, and most of the North hate the Targaryens because Aerys II killed Grandpa Stark and Brandon Stark, and everyone thinks Rhaegar abducted and raped Lyanna Stark.

I don't think they will declare for Dany either...but couldn't the same reasons be used against Jon...do you think the Northmen will react the same way towards him once his true identity is revealed?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I don't think they will declare for Dany either...but couldn't the same reasons be used against Jon...do you think the Northmen will react the same way towards him once his true identity is revealed?

You mean as Lyanna Stark's trueborn son raised by his Stark uncle in Winterfell instead of as Ned Stark's bastard?

[Lady of Dragonstone]

I was thinking the same thing but that would mean that they would go against Stannis, which would be a little awkward considering that he`s alrady there and some of them have already declared for him. Could the North be separated between a Stannis vs Dany war?

Jon (if he`s alive, and free from his NW vows) seems to be the only one she could marry. Also she is still married to Hizdahr

She is married to Hizdahr in Meereen, though. I am in the middle of a ADWD re-read, and I was very intrigued about the wording regarding her marriage to Hizdahr. They were married under Meereenese custom, not Westerosi custom. Any ideas upon whether she can shrug off the validity of the marriage based on the fact that she did not seal the marriage with her own gods (the Seven)? I got the distinct feeling that she did this on purpose so she could later find some way to dissolve of the marriage... basically, I got the gut feeling she wasn't planning on the marriage lasting forever. But that's just me. :shrug:

Daenerys is going to be seen as declaring war against her nephew. She's also going to be at war with Stannis, the Lannisters, and probably Euron too. It's also likely that at least one of her dragons will be killed. So how on earth does that mean she'll "sail smoothly"?

You're correct, but one or more of these factions could already be removed by the time Dany is prepared to fight them. That narrows down the playing field on who the North can declare for.

Also, when referring to the North as a collective who makes decisions, I think that they will go with the trusted direction of their liege lord (a Stark) and that presumably, there is only this pull and tug because there is no Stark in Winterfell at the moment to lead this faction of people. If Jon is named Regent, Lord, or King, then the Northmen would probably follow him. They are Stark men.

As for Jon's Targaryen heritage, I don't think that would hurt him in gaining support of the Northmen as much as it might seem. He would still be Lyanna's son, and he was raised by Eddard. For example, take Theon -- he isn't even a Stark but he is regarded as "basically" a Stark several times throughout the series, even by his own father, because he was raised there.

[Arya Targaryen]

Because they didn't want a Field of Fire 300 years ago and they don't want one now.

But Dany can't fully control 2 out of her 3 dragons, he lacks those 2 dragonriders who could, She will face other claimants to the Throne when she reaches Westeros, it is winter, and those dragons are much smaller than Aegon's. And in the North there is a Stark greenseer, a strong warg (with Targ blood), and other possible skinchangers who may take control of those dragons should Dany decide to attack them. She has no chance to conquer the North (Aegon did have a chance)- So no, they won't accept her.

[Ned's Epic Beard]

It's time for wolfs to rule. If she wants to be accepted by north, she needs to give up the idea of iron throne and kneel before the King of Winter. North has had just about enough of outsiders. Now it's time for winter.

[The Red Pope]

But Dany can't fully control 2 out of her 3 dragons, he lacks those 2 dragonriders who could, She will face other claimants to the Throne when she reaches Westeros, it is winter, and those dragons are much smaller than Aegon's. And in the North there is a Stark greenseer, a strong warg (with Targ blood), and other possible skinchangers who may take control of those dragons should Dany decide to attack them. She has no chance to conquer the North (Aegon did have a chance)- So no, they won't accept her.

Oh really? Stannis has a chance to take it with 1000 men. Dany will have a grand army and three dragons which are even more useful as deterrents than as weapons.

The road to Westeros is long, both dragons and soldiers will have time to train, it will be a levy army as good as any and trained beasts coming north.

And don't just throw out the warg argument like that, it's as loose a speculation as any you can find on this forum.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

The thing is ... Westeros has to be united in order for the threat from the Others to actually be a threat to everyone.

I see what you mean. But my problem is why Dany has to be the one to lead them?

[BlackStark]

You mean as Lyanna Stark's trueborn son raised by his Stark uncle in Winterfell instead of as Ned Stark's bastard?

Or the son of the Targarayen prince who abducted the Stark lady and grandson of a Targarayen king who executed a Stark lord and his heir?

(Sorta mirroring the justification for disinheriting Sansa...preventing a Lannister (or in this case Targarayen) from taking the seat of Winterfell)

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Oh really? Stannis has a chance to take it with 1000 men. Dany will have a grand army and three dragons which are even more useful as deterrents than as weapons.

The road to Westeros is long, both dragons and soldiers will have time to train, it will be a levy army as good as any and trained beasts coming north.

And don't just throw out the warg argument like that, it's as loose a speculation as any you can find on this forum.

Stannis has a chance to gain their support by kissing the Starks' collective asses in a way. Not by force of arms.

Or the son of the Targarayen prince who abducted the Stark lady and grandson of a Targarayen king who executed a Stark lord and his heir?

(Sorta mirroring the justification for disinheriting Sansa...preventing a Lannister (or in this case Targarayen) from taking the seat of Winterfell)

But the Starks accepted and raised him. Jon Snow is a son of Winterfell, XY Lannister born to Sansa raised in Casterley Rock would be an enemy.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

But the Starks accepted and raised him. Jon Snow is a son of Winterfell, XY Lannister born to Sansa raised in Casterley Rock would be an enemy.

Like what Robb said to Cat when she told him that a Snow is not a Stark.

Since Jon has grown up in the North by the Starks he could be consindered as one of them and his name will not be a great deal.

[Florina Laufeyson]

I also believe if Sansa was able to get out of her marriage with Tyrion, the North would be kosher with her.

[Kahl Trollo]

Declare? no.

Bend the knee? That's another story.

One that's been told before in fact.

[Éadaoin]

I also believe if Sansa was able to get out of her marriage with Tyrion, the North would be kosher with her.

I agree.

[Bayard]

Yeah, everybody says no.... I say YES. So, according to the scenario laid out by the OP, Dany controls the 3 dragons.... if she does that, she is very close to being a new Aegon the Conqueror. Of course, in the real books, she will probably lose some dragons, she won't even control Drogon completely. But, this is a fictional scenario. So, she has 3 dragons at her command, she still has an army... she gets to control the South. How can the North say: "No, we are free!!" They didn't fight 300 years ago, when they had an untouched army, and it seems they knew of a way to possibly kill dragons, and they would fight now?? With what?? 15000 men?? Why would they fight the South, when they could use their help against the Others.... sure, I tend to think that the dragons aren't of much use in the North, but just like many members of this forum, many lords in the North would think they could. Even Jon thinks that for the moment, as he says to the Braavosi envoy.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

snip

The only problem is that Aegon's dragons were real dragons: powerful, huge and mighty. When Dany's are small, untrained and weak. Even then I remember I have readed somewhere that Meraxes had problem with the rain at Storm's End. So what will happen with weak chicks(the birdy kind) dragons during the real Winter-Long Night 2.0?Not to mention that now there is a powerful greenseer and an Azor Ahai in making..

[PatrickStormborn]

I agree.

But how can that happen? Either Sansa or Tyrion will need to appeal to the High Septon. As both are currently wanted for regicide (which Tyrion has been found guilty of), their only hope is that they can ally with someone who isn't a Lannister and can take King's Landing.

[Bayard]

The only problem is that Aegon's dragons were real dragons: powerful, huge and mighty. When Dany's are small, untrained and weak. Even then I remember I have readed somewhere that Meraxes had problem with the rain at Storm's End. So what will happen with weak chicks(the birdy kind) dragons during the real Winter-Long Night 2.0?Not to mention that now there is a powerful greenseer and an Azor Ahai in making..

Yes, they could fight, but would they be willing to fight a war on 2 fronts??? Would they know that the dragons are vulnerable??? And are they really??? Sure, they are not as big as Baleryon, but they already are a lot bigger then a horse... when they'll reach Westeros they would be probably huge. Anyway, I am talking about the psychological effect. The fact that a Targaryen controls KL, and at least 3-4 kingdoms in the South (per scenario), would be a strong reason to bend the knee. For the lords it's not much different it they are part of Westeros or no... if they bow to Winterfell, or Winterfell and also KL. If a Stark would tell them to fight, they would probably do it, but as we know Jon, would he do that?? For what?? freedom?? what does that mean to him? he cares about the lives of the people in the North (and Westeros).... just like Torrhen Stark. If declaring for Dany would bring him more troops, he would do it in a heart's beat.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

But how can that happen? Either Sansa or Tyrion will need to appeal to the High Septon. As both are currently wanted for regicide (which Tyrion has been found guilty of), their only hope is that they can ally with someone who isn't a Lannister and can take King's Landing.

No, they don't. Tysha can do in their place, as can the septon that married her and Tyrion. Proof that Tyrion was already married and his wife nor reliably dead immediately destroys his marriage to Sansa.

Proof somebody like Varys or Littlefinger could easily get his hands on - or faciliate.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Yes, they could fight, but would they be willing to fight a war on 2 fronts??? Would they know that the dragons are vulnerable??? And are they really??? Sure, they are not as big as Baleryon, but they already are a lot bigger then a horse... when they'll reach Westeros they would be probably huge. Anyway, I am talking about the psychological effect. The fact that a Targaryen controls KL, and at least 3-4 kingdoms in the South (per scenario), would be a strong reason to bend the knee. For the lords it's not much different it they are part of Westeros or no... if they bow to Winterfell, or Winterfell and also KL. If a Stark would tell them to fight, they would probably do it, but as we know Jon, would he do that?? For what?? freedom?? what does that mean to him? he cares about the lives of the people in the North (and Westeros).... just like Torrhen Stark. If declaring for Dany would bring him more troops, he would do it in a heart's beat.

Which are the 3-4 Kingdoms that will follow Dany? Iron Islands play for themselves, like Westerlands and Reach, Riverlands(or at least the lords never denounced Robb), Dorne will never prefer Dany over (F)Aegon even more after Quentyn's death... So what is left is Crownlands and Vale.

The dragons didn't become huge in 5 years they will become in 1 or 2?

Also can we be sure that the dragons cannot be warged? And how the dragons will react when they will be warged from the Starks?

The North having lost so many things, so many people in their war for freedom (and revenge and justice) will never accept to be under someone's rule again. And more importantly of a woman who has bring foreigners and comes from a family that have harmed them.

[Roza Ahai]

Yes, they could fight, but would they be willing to fight a war on 2 fronts??? Would they know that the dragons are vulnerable??? And are they really??? Sure, they are not as big as Baleryon, but they already are a lot bigger then a horse... when they'll reach Westeros they would be probably huge.

Danys's army will be useless in the North. Dothrakies and Unsullied will have the same fate as French and German armies in Russia. Dragons won't be huge when Dany arrives to Westeros.