Dark Sister, Blackfyre, Brightroar, et al.: Revealed in WoW?

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

1: Why would Maekar allow BR to retain the only Targaryen blade that remained with the House in Westeros, having imprisoned him in a black cell for several years, and sent Aemon to the wall for fear of further rebellions? Doesn't make sense. If it's still near the story, I'd suggest KL or Dragonstone as more likely homes.

2: Even if Dark Sister is at the wall (and I doubt it is), why would Arya get it, and why would she be the best recipient? She's a teenage girl who's training to be an assassin, whereas Visenya was a fully grown woman and trained warrior who fought in open battle. And even then, she's a Stark. It's a Targaryen blade, if it "belongs" to anyone, it's to Dany.

3: Valyria isn't comparable to Moria in the series. It fulfils the same role as Numenor.

4: Is there any indication that Gerion ever actually got to Valyria? And even if he did, why is he necessarily one of the first to do so? The Doom was centuries ago, and there are plenty of cities with more of an interest in Valyria who are closer to it.

1. Maekar did not imprison BR, it was his son Aegon (Egg). However, I do agree that BR would not be allowed to carry the family's ancestral weapon to the Wall. Either BR turned it over or hid it.

4. Lord Tywin sent men in search of Gerion but his trail was at Volantis where most of his me deserted him. He bought slaves to replace them, but has not been seen again. I also see no reason to bring him into the series at this point.

Blackfrye was taken by Bittersteel and stayed in Blackfyre hands until Maelys was killed. In the earlier spoiler chapters, Illyrio mentions a sword being in the chests being sent to Aegon, along with candy and clothes. The sword was presumedly Blackfyre. This part was obviously left out of the actual chapter that we got in ADWD, but my money says Connington is keeping the sword hidden along with Aegon's armor and banner. Once the Tyrell army is defeated, Aegon's banner will be raised at SE, the dye will be washed from his hair, and he will appear in full dragon armor with Blackfyre at his side.

[What a Flayed Man Holds]

TBC:

1. Maybe BR didn't have the sword with him when he was arrested. Maybe he did, and he got it back when he was released by Aegon V [not by Maekar] and sent to the Wall when Aemon voluntarily went there himself [he was not sent there by Maekar]. Aegon seems to have been a fair-minded ruler; it's my gut feeling that he would have allowed BR to keep it. Also possible is that BR didn't have it when he was arrested, and someone kept it hidden for him [or he hid it himself] and it was returned/retrieved later. This thread wouldn't exist if there was hard proof as to where Dark Sister actually is; based on my interpretation of things, I'm willing to make the assumption that BR took the sword to the Wall, and the further assumption that he took it with him to the cave.

2. Because Bloodraven is on the verge of death, and when he goes, Dark Sister [assuming that it's with him in the cave] will be Bran's to dispose of. If the sword is at the Wall, it's technically Jon's to dispose of. Either one of those people would probably think of Arya as their Dark Sister, and if she returns to Westeros with the sellswords that Stannis sent Justin Massey to Braavos to hire, she might very well participate in an open battle. The search function still isn't working for me, but there is a thread for the topic of Arya & Dark Sister. My prediction, for what it's worth [nothing], is that Jojen will die north of the wall and Bran will give Dark Sister to Meera to keep her safe on her return to the Wall. Meera will have a long ways to go, through winter demon-haunted territory, and she's going to have to make it alone [or virtually alone]. She needs a weapon. BR has one, which he'll give to her because she needs it, and because she lost her brother bringing the next greenseer to him.

My point here is that, if Bloodraven has the sword in the cave, there's a dark sister already with him who really needs it. The Reeds are diehard Stark loyalists, if BR [or Bran] were to tell Meera something like "sorry for your troubles, but you were a huge help to the realm and you'll need this sword to make it back alive, keep it and use it until you find Arya Stark," I think Meera would do it. That's my theory on how Arya might get the sword, and a partial explanation of why.

3. Not in my analogy. The crack about Moria was a joke; I know LOTR pretty well within the Hobbit+ the main trilogy, but as far as I know, no one attempted to return to Numenor after it was lost. The Balin-Gerion/Moria-Valyria analogy isn't exact, but there are definitely some parallels there.

4. No, it's never been confirmed that Gerion ever actually reached Valyria. In fact, there's no confirmation that the [First] King Tommen ever reached Valyria--realistically, the sword was probably lost at sea. No character in the series [that I know of] has been confirmed as actually having visited Valyria. I seem to recall a Tyrion chapter where he's thinking about lost books, and he mentions that some scrolls recovered from Valyria are kept in Asshai [or maybe in the Citadel, I'm not sure]. People have been there before, probably from the cities you described.

4. Lord Tywin sent men in search of Gerion but his trail was at Volantis where most of his me deserted him. He bought slaves to replace them, but has not been seen again. I also see no reason to bring him into the series at this point.

I agree, there's no reason to bring him in alive. But if Euron killed him on the way back from a successful expedition to Valyria, it would provide some closure to Gerion's story and have his quest/death actually mean something. I think that would be a cool result.

[TheHedgeWizard]

Gerion Lannister has been mentioned enough in the story that i think its probable he will show up in the story somewhere. Will he have Brightroar? i highly doubt it. Blackfyre and Dark Sister on the other hand will probably show up. Blackfyre with the golden company and could be given to Aegon at his coronation or something(if he gets that far). Would be pretty sweet to have Dark Sister show up and to have Dany wield it.

[Winter'sHerald]

Would be pretty sweet to have Dark Sister show up and to have Dany yield it.

I highly doubt that Dany will wield a sword.

[the sword in the night]

Wow!!! Great contributions gang! Lots of crackpot and great theories. I agree with much of what has been said since the OP:

I doubt Dany will wield a sword. I think DS is in the cave. Hodor will no doubt get his huge hands on it.

BF I still believe will end up with fAegon. And I think that we will find out what happened to Gerion, though the idea that Euron killed him is scintillating indeed. When winter comes, I think these blades will be of consequence.

Dawn... I'm not sure when it will reappear. Did Edric Dayne meet any knight worthy of wielding it? Mayhaps he will himself? If Darkstar gets his hands on it, there will be blood.

Also, Dragonsteel=Valyrian steel, it is known.

[aryagonnakill]

Gerion Lannister has been mentioned enough in the story that i think its probable he will show up in the story somewhere. Will he have Brightroar? i highly doubt it. Blackfyre and Dark Sister on the other hand will probably show up. Blackfyre with the golden company and could be given to Aegon at his coronation or something(if he gets that far). Would be pretty sweet to have Dark Sister show up and to have Dany yield it.

I highly doubt that Dany will wield a sword.

If anyone's gonna wield Darksister i hope/ think it's Arya.

[MercyTheBlindUglyLittleCat]

Bloodraven still has Dark Sister, which would likely mean it will find its way in to Bran's hands (and then he can give it to Arya!!!)

I think if anyone has Blackfyre, its Varys, and he will give it to Aegon when the reunite, helping him solidify his claim to the throne (though also making it even more obvious that he's really of House Blackfyre).

I would most love to see Tyrion somehow find Brightroar. If he ever forgives Jaime, he can give it to him (I think Tyrion is really Aery's son).

[Great Winter Knight]

No theories on Ice. man I hope Gendry reforges it somehow. But the half that was being held by Tywin for Tommen, I wonder whats become of it now. I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that Kevan had it. So now maybe Varys adds another to the collection?? It just seems to me that Mopatis and Varys seem to get their sticky fingers on many things of value. I don't know how Baristan let the GC keep Blackfyre?

Victarion with the axe is cool, but I'd rather see Hotah with it if he can survive Darkstar's trap ;)

But Im sure there are other blades we haven't named yet...

Wait, what is darkstars trap. I like Hotah.

[What a Flayed Man Holds]

I would most love to see Tyrion somehow find Brightroar. If he ever forgives Jaime, he can give it to him (I think Tyrion is really Aery's son).

Oh, my crackpot theory covers that too. I'm predicting that either Tyrion will be with Victarion when the final Axe v. Brightroar duel goes down, or Victarion will return the sword to Tyrion when it's all over--especially if Victarion is in his debt for some reason, which is likely.

The Tyrion & Barristan WOW chapters make it seem like Tyrion [with the Second Sons] will meet Victarion before Daenerys does. Assuming that Dany sets sail for Westeros with the Iron Fleet, I'm betting that Tyrion and Victarion end up working together, and maybe even travelling together. Tyrion has a long history of making allies with bigger, stronger dudes who have need of his crafty Imp brain, and if he deals with the Iron Captain the right way, Victarion might heed his counsel. Plus, Moqorro already knows Tyrion, and might actually vouch for him. If Tyrion's counsel ends up making a huge difference in Victarion's fortunes, I think V will reward him for it--by returning Brightroar to the Tyrion after he pries it out of Euron's cold, dead hands.

Again, I know it's a longshot theory, but if Brightroar is going to come back in the picture, I think this is a possible way for it to happen. In the alternative, I guess it's possible that dragon-rider Tyrion could fly back with Dany by way of Valyria, look down, and see a flash of metal near what turns out to be Gerion's ruined excavation site, and get the sword back that way. That would be a little too deus ex machina for my taste, but it would still be cool.

[Matty-El]

I had a theory that Red Rain may actually be Brightroar, didn't those swords go lost and found around the same time frame. House Drumm admittedly stole or paid the iron price for Red Rain, a name they most likely coined for it red or Lannistery appeance. Tyrion could recognise it upon sight (having read about it and seen images among his books) amidst Victarions men and then scheme to get it back. It would also strengthen his own claim to Casterly Rock assuming he returns with Dany.

[Black Wolf Smith]

SSM (dated Jan 1, 2002) regarding Dawn:

"What happened to Ser Arthur Dayne's sword Dawn after Ned brought it back to Ashara?"

"Dawn remains at Starfall, until another Sword of the Morning shall arise."

http://www.westeros....elated_Subjects

Thank you.

Bloodraven still has Dark Sister¹, which would likely mean it will find its way in to Bran's hands (and then he can give it to Arya!!!)

I think if anyone has Blackfyre, its Varys², and he will give it to Aegon when the reunite, helping him solidify his claim to the throne (though also making it even more obvious that he's really of House Blackfyre).

I would most love to see Tyrion somehow find Brightroar³. If he ever forgives Jaime, he can give it to him (I think Tyrion is really Aery's son).

1. You think that the threw him in a dark cell, and years later sent him to the wall, and gave him back one of the family swords?

2. The GC likely has Blackfyre.

3. That would be cool, but at last he no longer near where is supose to be.

[brut]

Gotta love these discussions on valyrian swords. Every time someone brings this up, I feel closer to magic.

Anyhow, my current thoughts on this are:

Dark Sister was mots probably expropriated from Bloodraven's, kept by Egg and could have been lost in the fires of Summerhall. It either remains there hidden in rubble, or was recovered by Rhaegar during one of his trips there (motivating him to start practicing the swords). It is unknown as to why he would keep discovery a secret, but maybe his intention was to pass it on to an offspring? So, we may still be seeing the sword surfacing.

Blackfyre is most likely in possession of Illyrio/Varys to be given to fAegon.

Brightroar is lost forever. Tyrion's sword is his wits, and Jamie will wield Oathkeeper as a token of his rebirth.

Ice is gone too, and will remain so. If you like some spirituality in this regard, the sword was "punished" for executing its rightful wielder.

[xRobbStarkx]

I feel like whether Varys or Illyrio has Blackfyre right now, they are not going to want to give it to fAegon until he sits on the Iron Throne (if that happens). Giving it to him before then would be a dead giveaway that he isn't the "Targaryen" that he is being represented as. They are calling fAegon a "Targaryen" in the first place for the support that name will bring in the realm, so giving fAegon the famed blade of the offshoot, rebellious line from the Targaryen's doesn't seem to be in Varys and company's best interest. I wouldn't even be surprised if they gave fAegon Blackfyre and told him it had a different name, it seems fAegon is more a Blackfyre figurehead and does not need to be in the know.

We have seen one person in the series that is able to manipulate Valyrian Steel, and that was Tobho Mott. Tobho Mott had a single apprentice from what we know, Gendry. Gendry has a significant tie to the Starks in his relationship to Arya. People don't see Ice being reforged as a possibility? I don't see Gendry having a point in remaining in the story other than to reforge Ice honestly.

I like the idea that Brightroar is Red Rain, I think that would be a cool turn of events.

I also don't feel like there is any chance BR was given the opportunity to bring Dark Sister to the Wall with him, so I don't know if we'll see that one again.

[What a Flayed Man Holds]

I had a theory that Red Rain may actually be Brightroar, didn't those swords go lost and found around the same time frame. House Drumm admittedly stole or paid the iron price for Red Rain, a name they most likely coined for it red or Lannistery appeance. Tyrion could recognise it upon sight (having read about it and seen images among his books) amidst Victarions men and then scheme to get it back. It would also strengthen his own claim to Casterly Rock assuming he returns with Dany.

This is a neat theory, and there's a little bit of a "payback" angle to it, too. According to legend, Lann the Clever took Casterly Rock from the Casterlys by trickery. The Wiki says that Hilmar Drum "took the blade from an armored knight with nothing but his wits and a wooden cudgel." The Lannisters losing Brightroar to House Drumm the same way they gained Casterly Rock would definitely be a touch of ironic karma.

[the sword in the night]

Although it would mirror the Lann the clever tale, I highly doubt they are the same sword. More likely, as has been mentioned previously, would be Red Rain belonging to house Reyne, of Castamere.

[Corvinus85]

1. Maekar did not imprison BR, it was his son Aegon (Egg). However, I do agree that BR would not be allowed to carry the family's ancestral weapon to the Wall. Either BR turned it over or hid it.

4. Lord Tywin sent men in search of Gerion but his trail was at Volantis where most of his me deserted him. He bought slaves to replace them, but has not been seen again. I also see no reason to bring him into the series at this point.

Blackfrye was taken by Bittersteel and stayed in Blackfyre hands until Maelys was killed. In the earlier spoiler chapters, Illyrio mentions a sword being in the chests being sent to Aegon, along with candy and clothes. The sword was presumedly Blackfyre. This part was obviously left out of the actual chapter that we got in ADWD, but my money says Connington is keeping the sword hidden along with Aegon's armor and banner. Once the Tyrell army is defeated, Aegon's banner will be raised at SE, the dye will be washed from his hair, and he will appear in full dragon armor with Blackfyre at his side.

Maekar imprisoned Bloodraven, Aegon V sent him to the Wall.

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

If Valyrian steel needs to be forged in dragonfire, and no one can remember the spells, how did they manage to melt Ice and reforge two new blades?. Surely Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper must be either really good castle forged weapons, or some Valyrian ones that Tywin had cleaned up from somewhere. Castermere maybe? There is no-one floating around who could identify them if they came from there; also there could have been some that came from the sack of kings landing.

Brienne says in one of her chapters that her father has a lot of historic weapons at Tarth which is where she found her sheild, which had belonged to Dunk or Egg I think. She was not interested in where they came from just that they were good quality and did the job. That can't be the only great house with piles of old arms lying around.

The point I was getting to was that Ice could still be whole. Tywin knows enough about propaganda to keep the pretender to the throne from one of his historic symbols of kingship. How can Robb be King in the North if Joffrey has destroyed the historic family blade, symbolicly doing the same for his claim?

Just a thought

[The Bastard's Bastard]

If Valyrian steel needs to be forged in dragonfire, and no one can remember the spells, how did they manage to melt Ice and reforge two new blades?. Surely Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper must be either really good castle forged weapons, or some Valyrian ones that Tywin had cleaned up from somewhere. Castermere maybe? There is no-one floating around who could identify them if they came from there; also there could have been some that came from the sack of kings landing.

Brienne says in one of her chapters that her father has a lot of historic weapons at Tarth which is where she found her sheild, which had belonged to Dunk or Egg I think. She was not interested in where they came from just that they were good quality and did the job. That can't be the only great house with piles of old arms lying around.

The point I was getting to was that Ice could still be whole. Tywin knows enough about propaganda to keep the pretender to the throne from one of his historic symbols of kingship. How can Robb be King in the North if Joffrey has destroyed the historic family blade, symbolicly doing the same for his claim?

Just a thought

Valyrian steel can be worked without dragonfire. Tobho Mott knows how to work valyrian steel and he was the one who forged Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. Valyrian steel swords are quite rare and there's no way Tywin would just "clean them up somewhere". He's been trying to purchase a Valyrian steel sword from other Houses for quite a long time now.

[harold snow]

Is there a list of all valerian weapons and who has them?

[The Bastard's Bastard]

Is there a list of all valerian weapons and who has them?

Blades known to still exist:

• Widow's Wail; One of two Valyrian blades reforged by Tobho Mott from Ice. The blade was made for King Joffrey Baratheon as a wedding gift by his grandfather, Lord Tywin. Where it was given its name from the shouted suggestion of an unnamed guest. Following Joffrey's death, ownership of Widow's Wail has presumably passed to his younger brother, King Tommen.
  

• Oathkeeper; One of two Valyrian blades reforged by Tobho Mott from Ice. The blade was made for Ser Jaime Lannister, but he has given it to Brienne of Tarth for use in her quest to locate Sansa Stark. The blade was given its name, Oathkeeper, at that time.
  

• Heartsbane, the ancestral two handed greatsword of House Tarly, currently in the possession of Lord Randyll Tarly.
  

• Longclaw, the ancestral Valyrian steel bastard sword of House Mormont. Currently in the possession of Jon Snow.
  

• Lady Forlorn, the ancestral sword of House Corbray, it is currently in the possession of Ser Lyn Corbray.
  

• Red Rain, the sword of House Drumm stolen in a raid. Given the name and coloring, possibly the ancestral sword of House Reyne
  

• Nightfall, the ancestral blade of House Harlaw and currently wielded by Ser Harras Harlaw.
  

• The dagger with dragonbone hilt wielded by Bran Stark's failed assassin, and currently in the possession of Petyr Baelish.
  

• A Valyrian steel axe possessed by House Celtigar ^[4].
  

• Valyrian steel Arakh owned by Caggo ^[5].
  
  Blades with known fate:
  
• Ice, the ancestral two handed greatsword of House Stark. Following Eddard Stark's execution in King's Landing, it was melted down and reforged into two longswords(those being Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper).
  

Blades with unknown fate:

• Blackfyre, the sword of Aegon I Targaryen. Carried by all Targaryen kings till Aegon IV who gave it to his bastard Daemon Blackfyre who rose in rebellion against the Targaryens, taking the sword's name for his house. Its whereabouts are currently unknown.
  
• Brightroar, the ancestral sword of House Lannister, lost when King Tommen II Lannister of the Rock sailed to Valyria and never returned.
  
• Dark Sister, the sword wielded by Visenya Targaryen. The last known owner was Bloodraven.