[spoiler] king's blood and Dalla's boy

[ysTooCool]

I'm a little bit confused, melisandre wanted to sacrifice edric storm because he has the king's blood, in witch the baratheons originated from the targarian blood line. But when should mance and his son also have the king's blood? Mance was said to be an orphan raised on the Wall, was his father somehow related to the targs? Pls don't spoil it for me if the answer is in the next book though ;P

[Foune]

I think she just meant that the symbolic value of being a king is all that's required in the sacrifice.

[dkohalloran]

The reason why she wanted to kill Edric Storm wasn't really because of the relation to the Targaryens, but simply because he was the son of a king. Mance is known as the King Beyond The Wall, and thus his child would be sought after by Melisandre. It's got nothing to do with being a Targaryen or not, but obviously they all have kings blood because they've ruled solely for hundreds of years.

[theriveryeti]

I think she just meant that the symbolic value of being a king is all that's required in the sacrifice.

All of which makes "king's blood" seem more arbitrary....what aspect of being named a king makes someone's blood worth more?

[dkohalloran]

All of which makes "king's blood" seem more arbitrary....what aspect of being named a king makes someone's blood worth more?

I think that's a by-product of when the books start becoming more "fantasy"- like, after the appearance of the comet and dragons. Dragons can't be explained, why should this?

[theriveryeti]

I think that's a by-product of when the books start becoming more "fantasy"- like, after the appearance of the comet and dragons. Dragons can't be explained, why should this?

I don't disagree, but GRRM's actually kept the fantasy/magic to a minimum compared to most other fantasy novels.

[dkohalloran]

I don't disagree, but GRRM's actually kept the fantasy/magic to a minimum compared to most other fantasy novels.

Definitely, and it's part of the reason why I love these books. Heavy on characters and politics, light on fantasy. But I think that as a theme, the books are moving towards the return of magic to the world. Dragons, Necromancy, Whitewalkers, Wights, all were first spotted for the first time in ages around the time of the red comet. I'm just glad that the books are told from first person perspectives, that way we're guaranteed to have the characters and their politics at the forefront instead of magic and battles. (which are fine, but definitely not for this series)

[ysTooCool]

Ok... But then why would maester aemon be in danger? If the kings blood has nothing to do with the targaryans, what was the potential threat of Melisandre burning aemon then?

[The Fat Huntsmen]

Ok... But then why would maester aemon be in danger? If the kings blood has nothing to do with the targaryans, what was the potential threat of Melisandre burning aemon then?

Because measter aemon is the son of a king. And Jon sent him away just to be extra caerful and keep him safe...... that worked out well.

[rponeil]

I agree with what some of you were saying. Pretty much prophecy can be interpreted any way you want it. The Red Woman says she needs the blood of a king, well everyone is claiming to be a king. Personally I don’t have an issue with trying work this out, simply because I don’t put much stock in all this prophecy business. The Red Woman obviously has some power (Renly’s death directly) But I think GRRM has done a great job of allowing coincidence to also explain away a lot of things. All and all, if the Red Woman had Mance still alive and sacrificed all his blood to her god, I don’t think you would have seen any new dragons popping up.

[dkohalloran]

Hmm... I don't really think it's coincidence though. Aemon is a Targaryen, they all have the blood of Kings in them because they have ruled for hundreds of years, until Robert. Edric is Robert's son, the yet unnamed boy is Mance's son. They all have king's blood in them. Hell, if Robb had begotten a child from Jeyne, that child would most likely have King's blood in them too. No one knows how the higher powers at work can just seemingly grant king's blood to these children of previously uncrowned Kings, it's a part of what makes the fantasy fantasy, you need to suspend belief for a little.

[Foune]

All of which makes "king's blood" seem more arbitrary....what aspect of being named a king makes someone's blood worth more?

Because being named king has a symbolic value, and the people place a great amount of faith in that symbolic value, and when many people put their faith together it becomes a great power, that's why if even Hodor would be named king and people put their faith in him, his blood would have that power, and from that power Melisandre creates magic.

This whole thing is based on religion and sorcery, and when has religion and sorcery ever made sense? I for one love how mysterious GRRM has turned magic out to be, instead of being like some kind of fantasy game where people go to channel up their mana to make fireballs because they're born with magic powers or some stuff.

[theriveryeti]

Because being named king has a symbolic value, and the people place a great amount of faith in that symbolic value, and when many people put their faith together it becomes a great power, that's why if even Hodor would be named king and people put their faith in him, his blood would have that power, and from that power Melisandre creates magic.

This whole thing is based on religion and sorcery, and when has religion and sorcery ever made sense? I for one love how mysterious GRRM has turned magic out to be, instead of being like some kind of fantasy game where people go to channel up their mana to make fireballs because they're born with magic powers or some stuff.

Mel's tendency to be a con artist makes me a little doubtful as well, though. She's obviously tapped into some kind of power, but I doubt she even knows for sure how it works.

[Ser Ilyn's Voice]

Because being named king has a symbolic value, and the people place a great amount of faith in that symbolic value, and when many people put their faith together it becomes a great power, that's why if even Hodor would be named king and people put their faith in him, his blood would have that power, and from that power Melisandre creates magic.

This whole thing is based on religion and sorcery, and when has religion and sorcery ever made sense? I for one love how mysterious GRRM has turned magic out to be, instead of being like some kind of fantasy game where people go to channel up their mana to make fireballs because they're born with magic powers or some stuff.

Well done Foune. I was thinking this the whole time I was reading all of the posts. I cannot remember the complete quote and even if it comes from GRRM, but it goes something like this, "Men place power where they think power belongs." This poorly quoted entry can explain several aspects of reviving the dragons (who they interpret as having kings blood) as well as the whole book. The power struggle (at each aspect of the book) is dictated by politics. Given through POV of each chosen character makes a great way to discover, interpret, and predict what is and will take place.

[Rafael da Silva]

Well done Foune. I was thinking this the whole time I was reading all of the posts. I cannot remember the complete quote and even if it comes from GRRM, but it goes something like this, "Men place power where they think power belongs." This poorly quoted entry can explain several aspects of reviving the dragons (who they interpret as having kings blood) as well as the whole book. The power struggle (at each aspect of the book) is dictated by politics. Given through POV of each chosen character makes a great way to discover, interpret, and predict what is and will take place.

I was a line said by the Varys to Tyrion, when he says the tale about the priest, the rich man and the king.

[Aaron the Always-Late]

I think thats part of it as well, the whole obscurity to "King's blood." We see several examples of possible candidates which seemingly have nothing in common, from Roberts bastard to Mance's kid. I took this to mean its not a direct lineage as some would initially think, for instance the targaryens, but moreso possessing a characteristic of leadership on the grandest scale. Kings answer to no one, but Liege Lords or even Lord Commanders do answer to some higher authority at some point or another.

Or at the very least, this is Mel's logic and/or the reasoning she has lead others to believe since everyone keeps sending would-be victims away from her.

[Foune]

Well Mel could also be playing everyone for what we know, making up the threat of burning people with king's blood for some other end and the ritual itself may have no power, she's the kind of sorceress who always appears powerful and mystical so that people will fear her or acknowledge her, for all we know she could just be a con artist or a sorceress we cannot know how powerful she may be.

But I don't think she's stupid, I definitely believe there is some power in the king's blood and I wonder what she hopes to accomplish with it, if it really is spawning dragons from the mountains or some sort.

[Cory]

Well the wall has secret magic in it, especially considering the wall "was build on top on the hinges of the world" starts well underground and goes up up up. Mel has herself shown she has some sort of magic or sorcery (likely not the good kind)

IMHO having her so close to the wall = bad things happening

I wouldn't be suprised if she and her kings blood causes the fall of the wall

TOTAL SPECULATION

[Cory]

Food for thought

[Ser Ilyn's Voice]

I wouldn't be suprised if she and her kings blood causes the fall of the wall

TOTAL SPECULATION

I havent thought of this but it is plausible.